(Existing Powersets) strengths and weaknesses Rework/Update abilities!

Discussion in 'Gotham City (General Gameplay)' started by Kanmaru, Mar 26, 2023.

  1. jpharrah1010 Steadfast Player

    I think where people got confused was you didn’t explain how you used the load out you just said what it was

    You’re basically doing what I’m doing too

    Although if you drop ionizing eruption and Geiger blast … you’ll net more damage with just doing the combos.

    If I add in freeze breath and tap range after the second tick or damage between combos … usually once you hit freeze breath you can do a neutron bomb combo to a atom splitter combo and then a neutron bomb combo freeze breath gets off cool down by then.

    Anyway I’d you incorporate it with your combos … it’s not a huge difference


    But what irritates me is the fact that I have to go outside my powerset to do that and my powerset is basically two powers that combo and a short cut (I’m not including super charges) any deviation from that and it’s a damage loss..

    Not exactly the mark the devs set when they wanted a stat revamp

    We can’t have two or three damage abilities be worth taking and the rest is basically dead … that’s ridiculous
  2. DeitySupreme Steadfast Player

    No. The issue is that you were using the worst possible loadout and rotation. It’s fine to ask for buffs. But you don’t seem to have base understanding of atomic.

    You have 4 combos in your loadout. You use the 2 better ones to activate your aura and then mix in the weaker combos while randomly throwing in the other 2 abilities. Sorry but that just terrible. You expect them to make any changes when you don’t have a fundamental grasp of the power you want to buff?

    Guess what. I can’t use a terrible loadout with every single power and make them look worse. I can even do this with electric. That proves absolutely nothing. Asking for buffs without using a proper set up will not lead to any actual balance.
    • Like x 1
  3. DeitySupreme Steadfast Player

    But that’s the thing thou. Everyone saying “x power can’t keep up with x powers because others are getting this much more damage!!”, don’t actually acknowledge that the other powers are also using iconics. Every power is using rsk. Earth and sorcery won’t when they have the pet build with offering/fortify. But in a pet build they’d be using godwave.

    You can’t compare x power using iconics to y power not using iconics.

    Almost every single change id make to powers aren’t even damage buffs and primary utility. For example. For atomic I’d request for the aura to be applied when clipping a full combo with a combo ability. That way atomic wouldn’t need a shortcut ability. That change alone would be a huge buff to atomic. And maybe even turning beta surge to a pure ST max range combo. And finally, this isn’t even needed but remove the PI and just have the abilities that scale with PI just deal increased damage when aura is up. People like kanmaru are asking for these reworks that will just make atomic OP. They think atomic needs this massive update just because they don’t have a solid grasp of the power.
  4. Operation Failure Well-Known Player

    For celestial the scs definitely need a little work.

    Life drain - needs a complete rework. Quite a useless sc.

    Consecrated Ground - It's an amazing sc but having the ability activate over any add that you're locked onto is quite irritating.

    Sacrifice - needs to be reverted back to 5k for a group shield that doesn't shield the user.

    Cursed Idol - maybe a 10sec buff to all your attacks? For each add that dies during it refreshes the buff. It'll make CI an amazing sc for bossfights with multiple adds and it'll stay the same for bossfights that don't have any.

    Thoughts?
    • Like x 1
  5. Ash Inferno Well-Known Player

    Well, in all fairness, a little buff to the prec side would be warranted. As it stands right now, something like "fiery" weapon, doesn't really benifit the might side at all. Just the very name of it implies it should be might damage, as with pretty much every other weapon buff. Otherwise, it may as well just be another iconic and just call it weapon focus or something. It should benefit both sides of the spectrum is all I'm saying, like trinkets do.
  6. jpharrah1010 Steadfast Player

    Just speaking in terms of might builds … not every power is using rsk in their builds the vast majority are yes but electric certainly does not have to in a might build.

    Now on that note does every powerset who is currently using rsk have to use rsk… or are they using it cause it’s more convenient? Do they have other options they could use that would net about the same damage as rsk give or take? Or is it a big enough damage loss to their builds that rsk is a must ?

    You mention outside of the source shard artifact earth players are using rsk over crystal .. why would that be? Outside of crystal and fury being buffed by god wave and the pet buffs both have. If the pets aren’t being buffed why would rsk be more favorable ? There is no reason all three aren’t doing same damage at that point. If all three did the same damage outside of being buffed. At that point it’s just an aesthetic difference.

    If not using rsk gives a great enough damage loss when adding another dot ability from those powers or adding another burst hit those powers might have already then maybe rsk is overturned.

    I feel rsk should be optional and not a necessity, my own personal feeling. If I choose to use it great if I don’t want to and want to add another ability it shouldn’t be a damage loss it’s adding a little extra work in your build which if anything that should be higher damage not lower. But in the spirit of fairness and balance it should be optional as to allow diversity in builds.

    Atomic….. rsk is a must we have very weak dots that wouldn’t make up for it, and based on my own testing any deviation from rotating between two combos is a damage loss unless of course we go outside of the power set… with no pi clipping Geiger blast after a combo is a damage loss and using an ability to get the pi going just to buff the damage from Geiger blast is a damage loss. Clipping sonic shout sonic cry or freeze breath in conjunction with combos will do better damage than me using Geiger blast unbuffed between combos, actually it’s better than clipping any burst damage aoe ability we have. Freeze breath is the only thing that will be better damage then me just spamming combos on once my aura is up. This is from my own personal testing.

    Other power sets tho as far as I’ve seen don’t really have to go outside their powerset (rsk not included) it doesn’t make or break a load out adding hest vision, freeze breath, sonic shout or sonic cry which are really the main iconics I see people adding into load outs. As far as I’ve seen and tested with my own alts it’s just as good to use an extra one of my powerset abilities as it would to use an iconic the difference in damage is minimal. Again my
    Own testing.

    Atomic adding freeze breath is great enough a damage difference that it’s a necessity for me atleast then just spamming combos.

    I tested the super charges for atomic vs wop and neo venom … and from what I seen the 5k atomic Sc I can’t remember the name of it .. the difference between that and wop or neo is negligible and adding the 10k atomic sc isn’t that much better .. infact I think I’m a 30 sec parse if I do two of the atomic 5k sc hits it comes to about equal or slightly more than the one 10k sc

    I’ll retest that to make sure.

    This is why I’ll maintain that atomic needs a few dot abilities … less abilities that spread pi more abilities that work with the pi especially range aoe abilities. A choice between pis so if you choose to go aura route anything boosted by dazed po is now boosted while in aura, aura uptime increased in dps. And one or two aoe dots. Geiger blast should atleast be the same range as atom splitter.

    I want options that the difference between using iconics and my own abilities would be negligible. Bringing it in line with using iconics now would be all it needs. Anything more than that then you risk it getting into op and a mass flock to the power set which will ultimately get it nerfed (the last thing I want)

    A couple of dots added to make up for rsk and a few ranged and mid range burst abilities to replace freeze breath is all that’s really needed damage wise.
  7. DeitySupreme Steadfast Player

    That goes back to our previous conversation thou. Why should someone who personally limits themselves to only using class abilities have the same potential as someone willing to use all abilities they get access to. If someone purposefully chooses to limit themselves then the result should be in the results of performance. It’s pretty standard in MMOs. This also allows to balance things easier.

    As for RSK. It’s standard in builds because of how cast times work. I see so many people testing rsk vs crystal/fury with fortify/offering. That’s not how dps works. At any given point you can only cast 1 ability at a time (with some exceptions). This is why kanmarus loadout was so terrible. Think of it this way. If you have three 3 second cooldown abilities, you’ll be able to cast every single ability back to back without gaps. Adding a 4th 3 second ability will mean that at every given point you’ll have 1 ability not being used.

    Put that into crystal and fury and in the second it takes to cast fortify/offering you could instead have rsk up and cast a damaging ability in place of fortify/offering. So it’s not rsk vs crystal + fortify. It’s actually rsk + ability vs crystal + fortify. So the ability from fortify has to be stronger than whatever ability you would have cast with rsk.
  8. Kanmaru Dedicated Player

    I absolutely see what you're getting at but then you are also admitting unconsciously that Atomics kit has more than a few redundant abilities. So much in fact, that you feel to maximize it's potential you look at other means outside of the kit presented to the powerset.

    My sole purpose was to show how Atomic needed certain new skills because it lacks that little extra push to bring it to other powerset's level when nothing else is included. Realistically, whether you want to acknowledge it or not, Atomic from your own words is being hindered because I don't want to go outside of it's power abilities and use Iconics or etc. If you took time to actually read what you've said in defending why it doesn't need a rework it would come off as a means to sabotage progress.

    I know that's probably not your true intention but I see nothing wrong with them adding a ranged AOE DOT or a ranged version of Geiger Blast. Also, I would really appreciate it you posted your own test results because I would like to see from multiple sources the percentage Atomic lags behind. My findings alone won't be enough to change the Devs minds. I'll need help from people like you from the community. Especially if you feel otherwise on the matter.
  9. Kanmaru Dedicated Player

    I honestly hope the YouTubers of our community have read this thread and also post their results here. If we want change, we need to work together.
  10. DeitySupreme Steadfast Player

    But that is literally true with every single power. Every single power can benefit from going outside its base set to maximize its damage. It’s not exclusive to atomic. Every power has useless abilities. This goes for both roles. Atomic does not need any rework because its base kit does work. I have even outlined in the past ways I think atomic could be improved and in no post has it ever been a rework. Yes, atomic doesn’t have a range or even mid range dot. But atomic can clip 2 pretty good combos back to back which is something most powers can’t do. Dots do not magically make a power strong. If that were the case nature would be the meta right now. It’s not about what powers have dots or burst. It’s about the dps profiles of each ability. Even if atomic didn’t get a dot it could still be buffed other ways.
  11. Kanmaru Dedicated Player

    Fair enough. I actually meant at a base level that certain powers without assistance underperforms in comparison to other powersets. Other powers do indeed perform better from outer sources but there are powers which are already in a better spot that then increase the gap ever so slightly more by having it's potential maximized. Atomic could have itself buffed in ways other than having a dot AOE but I do think that not having one is a limiting factor of doing damage while CC or KB.

    Be honest, if you had a Might based rage toon with the same gear, artifacts, allies and skill points as an atomic toon, the rage toon would pull away in damage. Imagine if they had Galling Eruption, Severe Punishment, Berserk, Outrage, Dreadful Blast and Robot Sidekick. You could pick any loadout you wanted for Atomic and it wouldn't be able to compete in competent hands of each powerset.
    • Like x 1
  12. Derio 15000 Post Club


    Atomic needs to be buffed tremendously for it to be considered a viable powerset. Even on the tanking side its severely lacking when we compare it to other powersets for Elite + content. Problem is the power revolves around the aura and setup the aura. Fixing that is a start but then you have to fix other abilites and passives to the point where it in a sense is a slight rework of the powerset.
  13. DeitySupreme Steadfast Player

    This whole “x needs to be buffed tremendously” is actually laughable. There isn’t a single power that’s underperforming so much that it needs a huge buff. None. Most of the time it is coming from players who just don’t understand how to use said power.

    As I’ve said before, if they just made it so that the aura is activated easier and/or without the need of a shortcut then this power would see a large enough improvement. And possibly just changing beta surge to a pure st full strength combo. Beta surge has the same damage profile as neutrino burst but with a shorter range and higher power cost. Those changes alone will be enough for atomic.

    This is exactly why the devs can’t and shouldn’t listen to baseless claims. So many don’t actually understand these power sets.
    • Like x 2
  14. Tolly Committed Player

    I agree, some boss mechanics have completely forgotten that this exists in DCUO, the animated combos sometimes don't even have time to act against some boss attacks. Doing the combo + the manipulation to cut the combo, just for that, the boss doesn't even let us the time...
  15. SuperEpik Well-Known Player

    Clip combos? Jump while doing them to move somewhere else? As a celestial player, I think the only real issues with it are that the supercharges are pretty bad and that the power itself struggles against mobs. In alerts, mobs end up dying pretty quickly, especially since (for me, at least), the first move you pull out is Plague -> Corrupted Divine Light which takes a while to come out.
    • Like x 1
  16. Tolly Committed Player

    yes I bring this up as a hard light player ^^
  17. Lost Connection Active Player

    Not that I didn't enjoy the banter....there were plenty of posts about asking about posting numbers, using wrong proc testing settings...etc..etc.

    The easy fix to this would have been just to share each others loadouts and then posting the screenshots of the diffrences in numbers rather than making an 11 page argument of pointing fingers....but, I suppose that makes too much sense?
  18. Kanmaru Dedicated Player

    Has anyone else been able to test and is ready to post their test results?
  19. Derio 15000 Post Club


    From a dps perspective those changes would be a welcomed start and then would be re-evalutated but from a tanking perspective it needs more than just fixing the aura. When looking at a powerset look at both roles and figure out why players are playing X powers compared to others. Targeting one or two abilites doesnt change the fact that the other abilities also need to be viable
  20. DeitySupreme Steadfast Player

    Tanking is a bad example thou. Look at ice. Players rush to it when there are a lot of pure ST bosses and SM but when adds become more prevalent players go atomic for the infinite CC like back in TSDe
    • Like x 3