Speeder EOG Universe

I did just wonder about that myself and was going to say it, but second guessed.

I suppose the critical question is do we deserve to know as the group the performance of others so as to equally so address group dynamic problems and failings and dare I say it, but, take action where necessary.

That could be switching up roles all the way through to the dreadful prospect of kicking someone if they're causing a problem.

I'd probably err on the side of leaving the board despite clearly seeing some community benefits from its removal.

I also fear the entire scoreboard interface is well and truly too entrenched in the UI and other aspects if the game people might typically monitor for tracking things like speed feats and so forth.

I don't think it'd be impossible, but I would imagine it would no doubt be a logistical nightmare.

I'm going to take a guess that it's been a while since you've played Warframe and/or became familiar with it. I mean as I was reading through your reply I was in Survival using Hildryn. Eidolon farming, even 5x3s don't require any specific combo nowadays either. Did a 5x3 last Friday as Revenant. The old combo for that was Volt, Harrow, Trinity and Wisp. But as I've been saying this entire time, that was a "Meta phase" that fairly quickly got stamped out and numbers were reevaluated. There was Imbalance, the work was done, and now it's balanced. I don't even look to see what frames anyone brings anymore. As for Defense, I prefer Vauban. Others prefer Khora. Others still take in Mesa or Oberon or any of the other frames to be honest.

This is the point. There is no Meta in that game, only choice and preference. I'm taking time and genuinely reading replies and trying to look at this from a different perspective, and then I look up at the TV with Warframe playing in front of me thinking "I could honestly pick any random frame for any random game mode and it'd work". Then I look back down again and see all the "Balance is impossible" stuff and honestly just have to chuckle a little. I'm not pretending both games are exactly the same either, DCUO is 5yrs older on older tech and running on an older engine. It's clear that it'd be harder to balance DCUO than it was Warframe. If it weren't the Devs would have done it during any of the previous Power Reworks. But saying certain things are impossible is just a cop-out to be honest. An easy-to-use excuse. Historically though the difference between the folks who thought something was impossible and the folks who went and did it anyway, was Planning and Steps. Fixing the 3 main problems in this thread is not "DCUOs Ultimate Fix". No 1 change could claim that title, not even 3 combined. What it is, is a start. One step in the right direction. I kept reading in replies about how if these 3 were fixed, Meta Chasers would just find a new thing to gravitate towards. Cool. The game now has unpaid QA testers, they find a new "advantage" (exploit), it gets locked down. Everyone wins. Meta Chasers get to chase more, DI doesn't even have to pay them, and bit by bit the game suddenly starts looking more balanced with every Meta Lockdown. Metas in Games are Finite, not Infinite. Theres only so many ways someone can try to get around a system, before the system is improved so much that there's no getting around it. The Impossible is suddenly possible.

It's definitely too late to change it now. The scoreboard now is a useful tool within a friendly group. And yes, it does help you find problems (quick aside, I ran Inner Batcave a few weeks back with a controller that put out zero power, and I'm not talking a low number, I'm talking zero, how do you even do that in Troll stance?).

It's one of those tools that's a double edged sword, but it's far too late to change it.

How pay2win is warframe? Genuine question.

Because I think part the problem here is that there's always been an element of imbalance being used to drive sales, including power respec tokens.

People don't joke about FOTM and switching to chase for no reason.

I also feel like there's some pet powers on here that even the developers themselves like more which results in them typically being stronger than others, I know I'm erring into conspiracy type tin foil hat territory lol, but ask yourself, why has gadgets, always always been broken overpowered

I just wanted to make it clear that I am sympathetic to the view that powers need to be better balanced, it'll just never work when we target, just a few, every time this game has tried that approach it's failed.

The reality is too you never want players doing your QA, they're bias as all **** lol, not a single one of us doesnt have at least some underlying bias motivation.

Easy, hold range with dual pistols.

Look at me mom, all those numbers!

“It’s amazing How much panic one honest man can spread among a multitude of hypocrites.” – Thomas Sowell

It's extremely anti-pay-2-win. Everything that you can buy in the Market, you can earn ingame without spending a penny. It's a bit difficult to explain but every "frame", which are like new characters with new powers and new weapons, you can do these game modes called Void Fissures. It's a game mode you play and you choose a Void Relic from your inventory as a prize for completing each round. The void relic itself has 9 different rewards, the top ones being Frame Parts to build the Warframe you're after. So even when a new one is released, all you need to do is collect a few of the specific Void Relics, and then play a few 5 min rounds until you get the part. It sounds a bit loot-box-ish but it's a heavily modified version of it. First off you don't buy Void Relics with real money, you just do missions. And secondly you can adjust the Void Relics with ingame resources so that there's a better chance of the parts dropping. Plus, if you go into this mode with 3 other people, you get to choose 1 of 4 rewards because they brought in Relics too.

It sounds a bit convoluted looking at it there but it's really just:
- Queue for Void Fissure mission
- Choose your Void Relic
- 4 ppl work together to complete mission or last for 5 mins in Survival
- Game Mode pauses and a menu comes up with 1 reward from each of the 4 Relics brought in by the 4 ppl
- Choose 1 of the 4

Warframes just one of the examples of the 5 I gave before that had no Meta so I don't want this looking like some weird Warframe Recruitment post lol. It's just the best example out of the 5 though. Very very easily, Warframe could have had many Metas. One of the frames I talked about earlier, Hildryn, had a bug where if you equipped it with something it was basically invincible. Not completely, but a good 95% invincible. That was noticed within a day or two, and was gone within the week. Others had their powers adjusted simply because when it was developed and tested, X wasn't taken into consideration. Up and down too, buffs and nerfs. Meanwhile DCUO made the adjustment to the Shazam Ally a few days ago because it was clearly doing too much damage, and we're talking about how little changes over time can't help. It helps Warframe from having a Meta. And considering the year long overhaul of the Powers in DCUO did nothing to help the situation, I'd be more inclined to think that smaller, more focused changes are the way to go. Especially considering we have evidence of it working with the Sorcery Circle adjustments that were on Test and then hit Live a few months back.

I dunno. I miss the days when the biggest topic on the Forum was "Can we get a green aura". It was like that because although there was still some Imbalance amongst powers, the gap wasn't nearly as big as the one created now by other means is. Right now for all we know Powers could be in perfect balance, but we can't say yes or no because the 3 things mentioned here are factors effecting the view of them. If someone is Superspeed on Live because of the advantage allowance, you'd better believe that if that person goes onto Test Server they'll be Superspeed there too. I'm not saying everyone ofc, but I've watched enough "preview of Episode X duo/alert/raid" videos to know its prevalent.

It sounds like Warframe has an advantage of of starting in a slightly better place without 14 years of imbalance baggage. I might check it out some time, thanks for the extra info.

One quick search on youtube says there is a meta. First video on the list says there is a meta and people do get ostracized for not following it. the second video is quiet literally a warframe tier list ranging from "extremally fine to trash' the 2nd video is a tier list. the 3rd video is another tier list , the 4th video is a "top 10 best warframes video" and the list goes ooooon. So its safe to say there clearly is a meta within that community as well.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=warframe meta 2022

yes, its very clear this 1 movement mode is more enjoyable for many than the others , why not take a look at the others that arent enjoyable. instead of taking the fun out of the one that is.

as for this dart analogy anyone who wants any easier chance to win that competition will choose the 5 darts , but there will be that 1 or maybe even 2 pro dart throwers that choose the 3 just for style points and still win the competition. Which is what several people doing off meta builds are doing. We all know fire tanking is better than ice in several ways, but theres still maxed out ice tanks who enjoy the power just for style points and still get invited into end game content


And for the last paragraph , imma let you in on a little secret. Youtube is what controls the meta, all these meta ideas are coming straight from the same people posting the same content because people see that it works and they're getting results. I bet 20 mil in dc cash if you were to flood the entire dcuo YouTube space with sorcery pet builds or even earth pet builds youd have a plethora of people switching to that power the next double nth metal. Dont believe me ? back when obsidian chill would post his series on " Complete guide to x,y,z power" You saw a mass flood to whatever power got the spotlight until the next video came out. His video controlled the meta. Until the face for elite contents switched to other people, and he fizzled out of relevancy for meta builds.

I remember those conversations.. used to wish they'd lead to a better outcome of removing/adjusting it better but they never did. Devseven stated they saw/understood how the scoreboard affected things.. my guess it helps with artifacts sales etc though

Uh huh. Did you by chance take any time to watch any of those videos? No, I didn't think so. If you had, you'd have notices that most of those "Warframe Tier List" videos come with the creators warning of "Now this is my personal Tier List, yours could look different". At least the worthwhile ones do anyway.

Have a look at one of the Tier List videos, pick any random frame from one of the "Lower Tiers", and have a look through YouTube for that. I'd almost guarantee you there's a recent video of "Warframe X Nuke build is insane!!"

After that it might be best to look up the difference between a kneejerk reaction and a tempered examination.

Sorry, not letting you twist the narrative on that. The one movement mode has an advantage the others don't. I'm sure there are people who genuinely enjoy Superspeed, but when it comes to the issue we're discussing, it has nothing to do with being "more enjoyable". It has something the other 3 don't, the end. Hiring a lawyer to fight for your case in court will give you an advantage, but paying their bill to do so certainly isn't enjoyable. Theres no connection to be had there. We're not talking about the aftermath, but the act.

Secondly, I'm not sure who has people counting their "style points" irl, but in reality everyone picks the 5. Theres no logical reason not to.

Finally, if you're this fond of YouTube videos, how have you not seen all of the "Prec (Power) Loadout and Rotation" Videos by now? Every last one of them has near identical Loadouts. Power Ability -> Weapon Buff -> SS Ability -> SS Ability -> Robot -> Neo. Your argument earlier was about how the game gives you choice, and now you're pointing out that YouTube videos determine the Majority of Player Choices. I don't agree ofc, but if that were true then you just dug that hole even deeper than before because now you're in a place where 90% of recent Loadout Videos automatically disagree with you.

Honestly, let's just agree to disagree because at this stage you're accidentally sabotaging your own points.

This is what happens when stuff can stack with itself.

It doesnt matter if you or I dont choose to use these exploits, it matters what the community is doing as a whole. When most groups have the healer or healers and tank all throwing up green circles every few seconds, it gives the group indefinite supercharge. Supercharge moves are incredibly powerful and never meant for 8 players to use them non stop like other powers. It is trivializing the difficulty. And again, it doesnt matter whether you or I dont do what everyone else does, we both still get non stop supercharges in every raid. Plus, the bonuses that SCs like word of power gives to other players, not just the user. Then you have neo venom stacked on Super speed and precision dpss. Its beyond overpowered.

Theres meta, and then theres what is going on in the community today, which is way beyond that. Most meta in games tend to be about you and you alone....these issues in this game are amplifying the whole group to silly degrees.

How in the world am i accidentally sabotaging my own points when literally all of my points still stand? The game literally does give you a choice and all of them are viable . and if you were to look at look at YouTube you type in "dcuo loadouts " The first 9 videos are all might and all different powers. With the 10th and 11th being gadgets prec and the next two being mental and quantum might. All around the same view count if not higher than, the 2 gadgets videos. There are people using these loadouts and getting through content with no issues. There are people using their own versions of these loadouts and getting through content with NO ISSUES.

Yes almost every prec video looks the same but you can change it up or choose not to use it. A few people have claimed on the forum theyre flight with prec and it works for them , they chose to not follow the meta and still get through content. Your argument is that other choices dont do as much damage as the meta in which case that will always be a thing no matter what. Fire will always have the best single target dmg, munitions and electric will always excel in aoe damage. Sorcery will always be a beast pet build power vs the robot sidekick. Diversity will always happen

And as for superspeed argument , Thats literally why i said I'm all for them giving the other 3 other movements that quick burst that super speed has . The devs have already said that putting the movement modes abilities into the iconic three is something they're looking into doing. SO when you equalize the small burst SS has and put their abilities in the iconic it would quite literally fix that entire problem. But to say you need to use any of these just to get into every or even most groups is absolutely ridiculous.

Actually yes , i did. the top spot on the first 3 tier lists contain the same 2 options. there's clearly outperforming the others by a margin if they're consistent across 3 whole videos. Just like prec is consistently doing well if multiple videos have similar loadouts

It's completely ludicrous that the development team gives such an advantage to super speed and that Vol has to suffer such a malus. The malus on flight is horribly long and the day can't do anything until it is removed, you move like a turtle for a long time while there is already 15% of mobs lives that are down by the time you arrive...

The powers has combo are not even taken into account any more the bos do not even allow to react correctly I do not even count any more the times or I was killed while I made a combos, Hard Light and atomic are clearly forgotten by the developers...

I think it's fair to call these meta or over powered, even broken. But why exploits? We have supercharge head mods, back mods, chest mods, scrap, EOG, and now an ally also helping build supercharge. How is using these an exploit? People have pointed out this meta can be called broken and should be tuned down, but it's not an exploit.