I love DCUO so can you remove the stat clamp already?

Whelp I didn't think this would happen but it has, we are now past the DWF thread.

This is now the most replied thread bar the costume contest that's been pinned since 2013.

That one doesn't count because it was pinned by a dev

Edit: fixed that.

Edit edit: it also has almost double the views than the Forum Guidelines themself XD

Edit edit edit: needed a lot of edits, I'm out of my element tonight.

Yes. In 3 years it will be easier than the day it goes into EEG. You can deny it all you want but facts are facts

Since I'm not responding from my PC I'm not going to address all your points and it's not really necessary to do so, don't however take my lack of response as agreement however

In terms of compromise, I've always been open to targeted responses to the stat clamp, I've responded numerous times in places aggreeing with elements of content that could be improved or identifying potential outliers.

In RavNocs others thread i even specifically mentioned Stake Well Done and a few other facts while tagging a dev. Ive pointed out time and time again about increasing rewards for longer instances.

Those are all compromises, I just draw the line at prospect of removing the clamp and that's not unreasonable.

Ive asked for evidence and very little is ever given by comparison, time and time again people will say they're going to record things, but never do, but ive fronted up now with numerous videos.

Time and time again people have raised allegations of outlier instances with nothing but their anecdotal say so only for me to go in there have an entirely different outcome and when I point out player problems the emotional outrage that I dare critisize their ability ensues for example.

I believe I'm being entirely reasonable, but just digging your heels in (not necessarily you) and insisting the only solution is to remove the clamp entirely is as unreasonable as it is objectively outrageous because there's no justification to back it up, if there were I'd be happy to discuss.

Im no where near as unreasonable as some people like to allege.

I just expect an argument to be better than "HH was wild yo, delete the clamp, everywhere!"

+

I think your safe.

I honestly would LOVE to agree with you here except you seem to paint anyone not agreeing with you as... well you just did it right there. Your opinion, based on all your prolithic posts, is they are all unreasonable, wrong, and objectively outrageous (It's almost as if I'm quoting you here). The problem is they all aren't wrong and you kind of do paint everyone not agreeing with you with the same massive brush.

You say they dig their heels in even as you do the same thing. You've accused me (you have backed off here recently, so, good Proxystar) of being some massive "Remove the clamp now or all is lost!" person on numerous occasion and to date I still haven't haven't been near that ballpark. Heck, I've been downright hospitable (sometimes). I've only pointed out real issues that our beloved devs have already acknowledged are true. Its probably why I don't get so riled up. I already know like minded people and myself have been heard and they keep going the way we want.

Someone did that? Where is that post, I have to see that. If it there is no such post, that's fine. I'm not doing a "got you," but I will point out how you once again are painting others that don't agree with you under the big ole brush.


There is meaning to this gif...



... I lied there is no meaning to that gif.

I know people complain about FF 14 comparisons, but in FF 14, if I run the "Daily Leveling Roulette" (Our Omnibus), I will receive rewards that are relevant to me as a level 90 player (CR 592) Yay! So using the current DLC, if I were to complete an Omni run, I would also receive Death Metal coins too. The qty. could be low so as to encourage replays for the current duo/alert/raid.

Reward End Game players with End Game usable items. I mainly spend Source Marks on gear to donate to my league for prestige. I think I have over 6k now. The point being, it should be an enticing reward for End Game players, the carrot, instead of the stick, which could very well have the opposite effect desired.

Phooey, I forget this was that stupid stat clamp thread lol

I don't see why they couldn't do this here. Have the normal 'omnibus' missions they have today with the same rewards. But add a 4th 'advanced' omnibus that only included those worst runs we all know and 'love'. It could pay some more marks, or maybe 'current' gear and marks. Just 1 a week, non resettable, so it can't really be exploited.

The only bad thing I'd potentially see happening is that more groups would form, excluding those people actually trying to queue those runs, but I'm sure 1 or 2 would squeeze through on occasion, and the 'current' incentives of marks and gear might make people want to stick around vs just queuing up for more USR spams for source and 'event' level gear.

Sounds kinda like Save the Universe - I think they should have more STU instances on rotation year-round, or at least more often than they currently have. (That's coming from someone who hated STU at first, but came around to the idea)

Source marks are literally one of the more valuable resources in the game right now. Need to level arts or allies? You’ll need SMs for catalyst. Need cash? Sell things like catalyst that you get from SMs. Need stuff from the quark vendor? You can also convert SMs into quarks. SMs is something that EG players should be using

They did say that STU isn’t the traditional event. It may come back multiple times a year or none (doubtful it’s none).

The difference is I dig my heels because I've presented evidence, I've actually done it numerous times since the clamp as well not just when this thread arose.

Time and time again I've seen people allege the clamp is awful, I've then gone in an posted the exact opposite experience along with evidence.

Ive then articulated quite clearly how you go about building your characters and approaching content to improve your experience, but some players don't want to listen, they just want to complain.

They're also utterly unwilling to present any actual evidence despite the fact ive done so now numerous occassions, this isn't just me spouting my opinion because ive already backed my opinion.

If you're going too attempt to advocate for change regardless of whether I agree with you or not, then the best thing you can do is present overwhelming evidence, then it won't matter what I think or say.

But that's the problem here I'm the one here presenting all the hard evidence yet you're still telling me I'm wrong.

If that is indeed true, then respectfully, start doing a better job of proving it lol, your words don't matter when you can't back them up with something tangible.

Take for example Stake Well Done, I've already acknowledged it's a bit too tough, but lets say I hadn't and had told you it's fine.

What would be the best way to counter that? Words, or you posting a few videos to show every attempt was unreasonably difficult? The videos right.

That approach applies to all aspects of the clamp.

If you think an instance or feat is unreasonable then take a video of it, let's see it so that we can improve it.

Don't leave room for debate push the argument in your favor if you think it's got merit

Wait? Do you think I'm here to change your mind? Nope, I only have ever replied to your replies to my posts.

Moving on. I agree with on early everything you wrote up there except I think you need to follow your own requirements and advice far more than the people you keep saying aren't proving anything. There is a year of proof you have denied is proof for all kinds of subjects (Not just anti-clampers).

You believe your right, fair enough. But see they believe they are right and there are a lot of them with a lot of evidence and you just deny it exists and then demand we all keep providing you with more and more until everyone realizes there is no evidence you will accept. They get tired and go away, you declare yourself the winner. That's not healthy for anyone. You have a lot to contribute but you seem (again I could be wrong) so stuck on being the last voice heard and winning an argument you lose sight of the point and forget to actually be right and stay on point.

To be honest I had written you off as someone to ignore long ago do to the way you went about discussions I'd read with you in them. But I gave you another shot and took a deeper look at some of your other contributions on the forum. You seemed to genuinely want to help and further the game. But (as always with the but), I see you digging in your heels, refusing to accept anything that isn't part of your own view, and dismissing anything and anyone that disagrees with you.

You need to be convincing, not show up, tell people they are wrong, and demand they convince you. I'm still waiting on you to provide a fraction of what I've seen you demand from others. I don't approach you as I'm right and your wrong. I read your posts and then go a wild hunt looking for some mythical post you claimed proved you were right about whatever topic it is somewhere in the long long ago in the before time.

... I'm... I'm still looking...

I don't think you're here to try to change my mind, no, I do think however, you're here to present a case to the developers that the stat clamp is an issue and should be removed, that is the very point of this thread, is it not.. "...can you remove the stat clamp already" and with that being the case you have an obligation to provide meaningful evidence and data not just anecdotal accounts that then get brought in question by comparative encounters by other people.

Do you have an example?

There's no direct evidence as to how many people are pro clamp and how many people are anti clamp - complaints do frequently occur about the clamp, they're not always from different people they're also frequently from the same people. With that being said there were also frequent complaints about the lack of the clamp prior to its existence as well - again I was on the other side of the argument at that point.

You're also wrong in that there is "no evidence I will accept" I've literally told you time and time against what to present and how to present your case. However instead of doing so, you make posts like this one justifying to yourself and others why you shouldn't have to do so, rather than just getting on with it.

I've on the other hand gone in to instances and recorded the experience, shown how to do the content, shown how to effectively build your character and I then get told "don't build it like that, that's unfair", "Why should I have to do all that work" the list of excuses goes on.

If you presented a video that showed a feat was impossible for example no matter how well you built your character and no matter how well you approached the content, What could I possibly say other than "yea, that's not cool, needs to be changed", but you don't do that, most likely because you know a lot of these things aren't actually outliers, but are the fault of the players approaching, posting a video wouldn't vindicate your position, it would vindicate mine - you have to be prepared to back yourself, if I'm wrong then be prepared to prove it. I'm happy to be wrong, but I'm not going to just say I'm wrong, unless you do so, because if I've presented a video that shows the opposite, why should I (and in turn the developers) give your view credit, to the extent it calls for a game wide systemic change to the clamp?

What are you talking about, I've continued to present a case that omnibus content is not difficult and more often than not the issues are player driven, you or anyone claiming "I'm wrong" have done what exactly? Here's 11 more videos than you've presented. - so again, why are we removing the clamp when I can work in to a random omnibus instance clamped and achieve this?

Proxystar, you keep telling me what I'm claiming, why I'm here, what I should do and how I'm wrong. And yet thus far you have been wrong on every count. Its like you take what I write and retranslate it to fit your own narrative. I've lost count of how many posts you've replied to telling me I'm wanting things I've never said I want and telling me I'm wrong without even understanding what it is I'm posting about. That's why I keep going over they way you respond to people and why your rather substantial number of comments fall on deaf ears.

Try to be less defensive and try to make "I" statements" and vastly fewer "you" statements. As for the video's, they are still just sped up videos of a run through content. There are a rather large number of them out there including people that stream while showing the opposite of a lot of your claims. Your videos could prove something if they had proper documented context, showed everyone's stats, had people talking to each other in the match. But as they are they don't show anything other than a run. They certainly are not what you claim.

Look I have been boxing and doing MMA for twenty years if I show a video of me wiping the floor in one of my past bouts, and then said "look how easy it is for everyone" I would be exceedingly disingenuous. The majority would get their bell rung inside five seconds. You posted videos, cheers. They don't show what you seem to think they show.

But back to the main point regarding me. I haven't made the claims you keep saying I'm making. Heck your doing mental gymnastics to make me into whatever it is you have decided I am.

And yet not one single video in your post.

It doesn't matter whether it's you, Mary Poppins or the dog down the street, if you (that doesn't have to be you personally by the way) want the clamp removed then start putting up videos for us to talk about

Putting up videos to "prove" your point....



What a pointless endeavor.


We all know that there are instances that go without a hitch... and we know that there are never-ending nightmares of raids gone bad.



One's existence doesn't disprove the existence of the other.



One could show parkour videos of people flawlessly leaping from rooftop to rooftop....
but, that doesn't negate the AFVs of stunts gone bad... or, more to the point, disprove that the average person who attempted those same feats would wind up as street pizza.





And, once again, no one is saying that the clamp has made the game completely unplayable. The game can be played.... and videos of gameplay will obviously exist: It doesn't "prove" anything.

If one is morally opposed to a non-optional clamp... How could any video prove or disprove that conviction?
Que the next 5 pages of debate over the use of the word "morally"....

And would a video really do any good when the arguments for those convictions have been ignored for over 100 pages already?

So all those outlier feats that exist, you know the ones that are impossible to get, that can't be achieved regardless of how much you try, got a video of your attempts, even one, Just wondering - asking for a friend.

Umm… what are you on about?

Actually one does disprove the other. For example. You said that some raids go off without a hitch while others are nightmares. If group A for example went into paradox and had a smooth run but group B went in and couldn’t beat it than you have to look at what is different. This is basic science(?). If you have 2 runs who had different outcomes than you don’t blame the parts of the runs that were the same.

For example. Both runs happened in paradox. One was successful while one wasn’t. This means the environment is controlled and the outcome was caused by the different variables. So what were the differences? It was the people running it. If people running it had people who didn’t listen and were just bad than it’s clear to see that the issue is not on the clamp. Well clear if you’re staying unbiased.

To be fair it does come off as you wanting to change others minds. But that’s for everyone in this thread including myself. This whole thread is basically about the clamp and different areas of the clamp.

Originally it was that the clamp should be removed. Then the clamp should be lowered. And so on. There is some level of trying to convince the other side since that is a part of the nature of these types of discussions. If the discussion is on the clamp then the clamp is something that can actually be measured. There are aspects of the clamp than can be shows as facts regardless of what someone’s opinions are of the clamp.