Precision and SuperSpeed - Damage Wise

Discussion in 'War Room (Powers, Artifacts, & Builds)' started by Starbrand, Aug 18, 2022.

  1. Starbrand Dedicated Player

    SO... EVERYBODY seems to say: "if you are SS, use vortex and dervish" to clip/back-to-WM...
    Have you guys tried to really crunch the numbers?
    Because I did and the damage did not improve... In fact, I did more damage using usual powers after Braw/MA.
    What about we do some tests, get some logs, put in that parse tracker and show if SS is really good to improve Prec damage?
  2. Forum Junkie Well-Known Player

    Try brawling mastery, clipped with weapon buff clipped with phase dodge, brawling mastery clipped with amazonian deflection jump clipped into brawling mastery, clipped with whirling dervish, repeat brawling mastery twice with a dervish after second BM. Rinse and repeat. Keep doing the dervish rotation til your other powers are off cool down and repeat. Robot sidekick and your favorite attack boosting supercharge at the tail of your rotation. With the right 200 artifacts and max prec augments, you should be pushing a million on sparring single target and over 1.5 million on sparring aoe targets. Dps meta is trans, strat, grim for single target, or trans strat, Quizlet for aoe. I am using wrist dispenser, clarion, and demon fang. This rotation works with dual wield bow mastery as well. Also make sure you are using all the appropriate white mods to max your damage. Hope this helps! Disclaimer: this is what I use, it may not perform the same for you, clipping after your back is half spun is the fastest way to reset BM without cancelling your damage.
  3. Tilz Loyal Player

    Thing with Vortex and Dervish is that those are not enough for the rotation.
    I usually use both + one superpower (like Arc Lightning for elec).

    I usually got way better numbers with getting into brawling combos as fast as possible.
    Running with complete Prec-mods

    Trans
    EoG
    Strat (optional VWB + Scrap of Soalcloak tac swapping)

    On ST you kind of only need Dervish.. Also depends on powerset and if you can get 4th ticks with Flurry Shots.

    The Strong thing on Brawling is the quick burst you get on adds while clipping.
  4. Starbrand Dedicated Player

    I know what you are saying, it is the META, indeed.
    But what about the numbers?
    I am not talking about in-game parses....
    I am talking about real tests, 5 minutes repetitive rotations, then the logs upload to https://dcuolog.com/
    Then comparing the numbers with and without using SS to clip...
  5. HooLeeCow Well-Known Player

    Everyone who clip brawling with power and jump cancel why ? like jump cancel is not enought :)
    Yes brawling is AOE for prec and its better then DW but only as AOE for single flurry is nr 1 .
  6. Chewy Stuff Well-Known Player

    I actually tried this just yesterday on a Quantum toon and removed pets.

    - Strat 140, Trans 160, no quislet (no other arts)
    - 327 Precision augments
    - 350 SP

    30 sec parsers, 3 targets.

    Rotation 1: Grav well > Wpn Buff > Brwl/MA > Lift > Brwl/MA > D Wave: 118k to 124k

    Rotation 2: Grav Well > Wpn Buff > Brwl/MA > WD/range cancel > Brwl/MA > Vtx/jump cancel > Brwl/MA > D Wave (no PI but seems to hit harder than lift): 116k to 126k

    Conclusion for Quantum: SS Prec setup CAN hit harder BUT your rotation must be perfect. It is a more difficult rotation and consumes much more power.
  7. Stanktonia Dedicated Player

    This has been the case, but people opt to use dervish and vortex because they see it on youtube, even though you can get superior dmg from an ability in your powerset, you’re missing out on even more dmg if the troll is running tetra.

    It’s different for flurry shot though, dervish makes it competitive
  8. Starbrand Dedicated Player


    It is my point, this is not the way the tests were made back in the day.
    As I´ve said, the real tests used Logs from the game and a Site that showed the numbers of every crit, power, etc...
    Gonna show some examples (not the test with dervish, vortex)... (if the image does not appear, access: https://ibb.co/ZxQjbsB )
    [IMG]
  9. Chewy Stuff Well-Known Player

    Is that specific to PC? I've always been PS so can't speak to that.
  10. Kimone Luthor Genetech Clone

    For better or worse, in-game parses are most of what you're going to get for the purposes of comparison, unless you send Obsidian a letter with a self-addressed stamped envelope and $0.50 for processing. And last time I saw him run anything personally (which was not recently, mind you) he ran Rage, not Gadgets, so...

    If you want to see what a long term parser log looks like either A.) set it up yourself, since you seem to know what it is, or B.) run 5 60's in a row with rotation A (non-SS) and rotation B (SS - dervish includ.) and compare the results. If you're PS, you're pretty much gonna be limited to B.

    It's actually surprisingly effective at determining what the actual contribution of a rotation piece is, if applied in that manner - it doesn't contain all the bells and whistles like "individuated component contribution over time" or "critical versus not critical output performance of a specific contributor" but it's really easy to compare "I did this and got X" with "I did this and got Y". Plus you can save vids using the share function to compare the results over multiple sessions

    As for finding an ideal rotation and execution examples to compare it to, YouTube is lousy with Gadgets tryhard videos and there's already a couple of decent demo vids out there for rotation clipping and DW->Flurry jump cancelling (which is usually the trickiest part) so even if you don't personally know how it works yet, you'll be able to learn it in about an hour after a little nosing around and some practice. The "ideal" Gadgets SS/Precision rotations are very involved, so you may want a couple days worth of practice sessions to tighten up the combo execution and cancel timings before you write it off.
  11. lllStrichcodelll ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    Its about SP/stats and QoL.

    Strat card scales off might and prec. Depending on the damage instance you triggered it with, that stat is taken for the dmg calculation.

    Pure prec rotation means it always scales off prec.
    Hybrid rotation means it can get activatedd by might and since might will never be as good as prec in a prec set-up, it falls short.

    Its not a massive difference and with enough SP you can even make up for most of it, but still, not optimal.

    Also, some players have a hard time getting the 4th tick without ever messing up the jump cancel. Thats where those abilities come in handy. Also, you dont have to actually jump, wich can be annoying during EoG stack up when you land on someones head.
  12. Starbrand Dedicated Player


    I am doing myself, that´s why I posted this thread.
    I am in this game since day 1, testing is not a problem :)
    I was just asking if someone else was doing the old school method, cause it is the effective one to get exactly wich powers are working or not...
    But, well, maybe I am just wanting too much of the community at this point in time.
  13. Kimone Luthor Genetech Clone

    Like I said, if you know how it works, then test it yourself using that method. It's that simple.

    Asking other people in the community for hard math right now is a no-go for another, simpler reason: Gadgets/SS Precision has a kick me sign on it, largely because of effectiveness, but also because people insist on nerfing the outlying components (Weapon combo output itself, for one) as opposed to going directly after the core components that drive that effectiveness (EOG output and Super Speed performance remain untouched, though [part] of the Stealth bug has been addressed by simply making it absolutely unsustainable to use in the manner it was being used) - so you're not likely to get a super-straight answer from anyone else.
  14. ObsidianChill Community "Trusted"

    I don’t believe anyone has said dervish/vortex are the best for brawling shuriken storm, it’s just easy and consistent. No matter the raid if you have the same loadout of pd/dervish/vortex etc you can swap between dual wield and brawling instantly if st/aoe dmg is needed. There is not a large enough difference using abilities unless it’s like gadgets/elec. dervish/vortex has been shown to be the most optimal for dw>flurry shot which the OP left out in his testing statement and only referenced brawling shuriken storm. Do you want to have 15 separate aoe loadouts for aoe prec or do you want 1 that works for all 15 powers?
    • Like x 1
  15. ObsidianChill Community "Trusted"

    I wouldn’t be caught dead testing precision rotations anyway in content.