New Genesis : The impossible Raid ?

I usually omnibus it every week, I've had some heavily rotated groups, but it's never gone completely pear shaped on me.

No....they are not supposed to nerf anything. Just saying, to expect groups to get this done in Omni is just dumb. If players want to improve for endgame, they should be joining capable groups, not Omni-shoot shows. And yeah, to Proxy's point, a good 'battle tank' or maybe heal can carry the day...but again, how is that supposed to improve anyone for endgame?

NGN is perfectly doable and does not need a nerf...almost nothing does in EEG (Granny's drone in HH maybe)...never asked for that BTW. It's just not doable by many or most solo omni groups. New players would be better served by learning how to use LFG, build a group and get it done if they actually NEEDED that particular raid. Join a league or get some regular running mates has ALWAYS been the best way to improve in this game...not by running random crap with random people and hoping someone drags you past the finish line. 1/2 the time I've completed NGN...even pre-clamp...most of the other players were dead on the floor or locked out of the room on 1st or last boss. Not sure what they learn there either...other than they can be carried.

The post was about NGN being impossible....it's not. There are relatively simple mechanics and mistakes people make that make the run go bad. I tried to lay out a few in my first post...Unfortunately many or most new players won't read or understand what was written. Sorry....I tried, I'm not counting on the bulk of the community to have come here and 'learned' anything that will make this run any less un-omniable tomorrow...and if I need 10 marks or a few pieces of salvage, I'll run WV solo 3x and be done before NGN's 1st boss is done.

Long story short...if you want to get paid...omni is fine save a few runs like NGN. If you want to improve, skip Omni and learn LFG and group building instead.

If I can do it then anyone can do it.

People need to start playing properly and be ready to do both support and DPS role and not expecting the omnibus carry.

If you queue omni and see there's no healer, tank or troll then be capable of switching support for example.

If the groups more at level or less experienced then be prepared to comply with mechanics and play the content more like it's at level and not some sleep cruise.

It's all really that simple.

See I don't remember this run being that bad except for the push off the platform on LB. I guess because that was more likely to get me(generally doing a pickup or running a room cog) as I knew to block or lunge on 1st and would auto carry the artifact if I were DPSing. And that was with random groups. Much like today's SWR, by now, most endgame people know how to block when needed...or they learn fast after a wipe (or are kicked). At this point though I'd guess many new players have never gotten through NGN or DWF or a few others if their only experience in them are via Omni. And as much as you can learn by failure (it's a great teacher), generally it does take 1 success at least to teach the 'right' way of doing something vs the 1-100 previous times you fail doing the wrong thing. Yeah, you might learn what NOT to do...but you do need to learn what TO do at some point as well or it's just dumb luck if you ever make it through something new.

And as far as that 'right tool' 47 count, you are way better served trying to get the people to just spam 1st and 2nd boss for the counts. At 4 counts MAX each run, that 36 count might take 9 passes....it might take 30 if done wrong. And that's assuming you can be the one to get the weapon vs someone just grabbing it 'cause it makes me all big and stuff'...or 'see cog-grab cog'.

Good luck in the random groups though...Jeebus save you.

That's not 100% true. You (or I) can do it because of a decent 'battle' loadout, a lot of SP and a good compliment of artis....I'd guess you have all that too. Being the right power helps as well. I do much better soloing on Fire or Sorc, than mental or HL The point was that as much as it's cool to solo a failed raid to 'save' it...what is the point? You get paid? Ok...you can get paid faster and easier. You can beat that run? Ok...I'd guess you beat it before. You can 'teach' these noobs? What did you teach by finishing solo?

I actually agree...everyone should have the capability and a LO for running a role in Omni. Even my junkiest farmers can and have used the D pad to 'switch role' even if I'm not queued for it. 99% of the time that works fine, but not where people ignore mechanics as well. Stats don't 100% matter as they are clamped...Artis don't 100% matter (unless soloing) as again the clamp makes them not 100% needed. What is needed is knowledge. Knowledge of the roles and knowledge of mechanics. One can be learned during the raid...one should not be. And Omni is NOT a replacement for a role tutorial we do not...and have never had in this game.

idk why you think my statement is incorrect, especially when you listed things that the devs do.

my job is to log in and play the game, not teach ppl how to play said game. i am not a utuber, i am not making guides for the game, i am not in charge of a league where i need to play a leadership role ingame.

teaching player raid mechanics is a devs job, and i have advocated that some sort of post 30 tutorial be created, because you will find post 30 players that do not know what the skull on the head means. that is the devs job.

lets take spin drift station. i try to make it my goal to get 2 bombs done every time, if it fails it fails. i have no desire to sit there and teach others to deactivate the chain of bombs. that is the devs job. idk why you think that is my job. my job is to walk over and push my "activate button" on the bombs, i did my job.

but so many of you "old timers" on here have this notion where you claim "devs can only hold our hands for so long" that you make this giant leap in logic where all of sudden you claim its MY JOB as a player to hold their hand, its MY JOB as a player to teach ppl raid mechanics.

now, as i stated, i dont care about either of these 2 raids failing because the time invested is minimal. i actually like that, you get to know right away if you will make it or you wont. unlike, say, a nexus of reality where the last sub-boss fight needs you to down both enemies at the same time and its me on one side alone, and the other 7 on the other side and then i do have to type in chat, but that is solely for self preservation because i dont wanna be here all day, that raid is long enough (the other day 1 person came over, we got the bar to little to nothing and then had to wait it out for the other side to actually dmg theirs, with 6 players hitting it it still took forever haha)

another thing that HELPS players learn raid mechanics, NOT getting one shotted, as in remove this entire cheap mechanic all together. if you actually can stay alive in the fight, even if by a little hp, BUT you notice the hp bars on the bosses are not dropping, it really does make ppl wonder "okay, dps'ing isnt working, i wonder what we have to do". another good mechanic is doomed washingtons gorilla grodd bounty. there you actually get to witness personally a significant difference in the dmg you take compared to tapping the buttons and not tapping the buttons when cc'd by him. (i can admit, i personally like slow dying and slow deaths in my games,they are way more satisfying and feel justified. i come from an NES era where deaths are cheaper than -insert joke here-. also i am talking NORMAL game modes, have all the one shot deaths you want to throw at players in modes that carry the word elite in them.)

another reason why i am a HUGE fan of event versions, you get to fool around in there and learn things without to many repercussions(practically no wipes), its a good way to learn the raids. but once the dlc is over, they are never to be found again

but i am still sticking to my guns, it is NOT my job to teach ppl anything, it is the devs job. what is the point of having a giant skull on an enemies head, if they never drilled home the point that it means big dmg incoming. what is the point of having a utility belt that gives 4 extra slots, if you never taught the players what those extra slots are for (yes, i inspect and see ppl having 4 basic trinkets in there, never knowing what a supply drop, henchmen, trinket pet, orbital strike, or sidekick are). as far as i know, the cr clamp does take into consideration players firing these things off, so if they dont have them, its a huge deficit to the group.

Nah you're deflecting.

Yes I have a decent load out, but the load outs are available to everyone, the knowledge is available to everyone that seeks it out.

The artifacts can be built by anyone, you only really need 3 artifacts.

Powers all have pros and cons, but your choice of power is not critical, you can build a tanky build with every/any power in the game, all you have to do is incorporate shields, controllers usually have two and/or there's also hard light shield in the iconic tree, healers also have shields, plus they can actively heal back.

There are also plenty of feats in this game that players can get to give themselves a healthy amount without even worrying about the excessively difficult ones.

Also I wasn't running to be "paid", it was for fun, not everything has to be a "pay day". I helped a bunch of people, whatever they learned from it was up to that individual and I'm sure a bunch of them learned a number of things, you can learn a lot simply through observation.

haha i wiped once on this doing the omni and that was because someone typed "go for the adds when they spawn" and others replied "okay",so me, with my great intelligence (haha) outplayed myself thinking, "well, i am a single target dps, if everyone is going to go for the adds, i can just stay on the boss and save us some time" well, no1 went for the adds except the player who originally mentioned it and we wiped haha

ever since i go for the adds 100% and again, being a single target dps, i have no probs even if i am the only one pew-pew'ing them....as long as i keep my distance

I'm not deflecting anything. Your phrase that matters there is 'to everyone that seeks it out'. Many who run Omni are not seeking anything other than 10 marks and some drop gear. Not everyone can battle role and solo any more than everyone can excel at elite. It's a skill that you have to research and practice and you do need to spend some money and time to get to a point where you can implement what you've practiced. We are talking about people who can't handle easy mechanics and know the basics of the game, like doing a role or how their powers work. We aren't talking about you or me. Or are you assuming that the OP made it up when he felt the raid was 'impossible'? Guess he came up with that even though most groups should have 1 guy who can solo, and the rest are out 'seeking' knowledge on how to pass the raid...not just looking for 10 marks....right?

Never said it can't be done...but it shouldn't be 'learned' in an omni raid. If someone actually wants to learn how to 'battle' anything, they should do do some solo bounties. They are awesome for testing and refining a battle build. If they want to practice a role, jump in some alerts and try it out. Again, a tutorial could help with a lot of this...we don't have one....league/friends would help even more....many don't want to bother with that. Just expecting to queue into some random run and someone will hand hold you through things or worse...carry you...is how we got here.

And I'm happy you had a good time dragging some dead weight through a run. If that's what you pay your $15 a month for, more power to you. I'd guess many do not...I know I do not (well I don't spend anything anymore). And hey...I didn't make the post. I'm perfectly happy to take the 60 seconds any time I see 'New Genesis Now' (or a handful of others) pop up.

And yes....when I was told that I could no longer have fun any way I wanted in the game...yes...it did indeed become about getting paid. Sorry....but that's the way the system is structured...so that's the system I work in.

EDIT: I want to point out, that my first post in here was about the mechanics and the fact that the last boss push is dangerous. I was trying to spread that knowledge to those 'seeking' it. Your first post was 'wooo...look at me, I soloed it'....Which I agreed, can be done...but why?

perhaps a "how to" chat tab might be nice to have - people could join as needed and LFG for people w/knowledge to join as well.
it would be really nice if their were an in game - library - or database of all the raids alerts duos and how to complete as role player.
What also might be nice is a how to complete as a solo player - if this were a feat perhaps more will learn to do tanking, trolling, healing.

Why? because many people don't want to look things up on another device just to play the game...
but in game help via talking is easy (texting is not that easy on a ps4)
then again - some might try to sell their knowledge of the game instance and this might get awkward.

or then again....
perhaps if people were forced into the instance chat just for omnibus - it might help or hurt someone's feelings....
As it is ...there are so many raids alerts duos - that even those who have played from the beginning will forget (or at least I do) if I haven't been in that instance in over a year or so...... though having played at level that instance dozens of times - there is a certain amount of recall - but it doesn't help when the instance is changed for whatever reason...

else good luck...

I don't know if increasing the loot for a player (say DCUO has recorded that toon has completed that instance 25x) will incentify to cue up for omnibus.
I myself just do it for the prestige, source marks and saleable broker items (though I really wish the loot would include hard to find items - even though it maybe on the quark vendor [I don't have many quark and accumulate them so slowly])

circling back to the knowledge thing....
perhaps if players had their skill points(sp) - reframed - so that it can be seen by other players - such as sp from the(this) instance or from time capsules or perhaps percentage of the DLC or instance completed (tied into feat points)
this might be helpful...
I really would hate trying to answer questions via text - talking is so much easier

or perhaps
you could have players pay with source marks - and ask Oracle - how do I complete this part of this instance?
and you could ask for a particular role or all roles - or something along those lines.
in this way, players won't give up on an instance so easily....

Ick no. Sorry but if you put the 'forced' on almost anything it can't be bad. Gated fine...like someone 'can't do a role till 'x' is done (like tutorial, or have an 2nd armory) but that still shifts the choice to the person. Want to queue as troll? Learn to Troll first, at least minimally. Not to mention, even if we are 'forced' to a chat when entering an instance, sound can be turned down, mics can be turned off or not present and how DARE you assume everyone speaks the same language (fake outrage - ENGAGE!). I've been in many Omnis where if its going bad, as a last ditch effort before bailing out, I'll say 'come to instance chat'. If 2 or 3 people do, it's amazing. If those same 2 or 3 people seem to understand AND follow along with what's being said that still leaves more who maybe don't...or won't.

I'll put the wind tunnel test in 'Fatal Exams' as a prime example. While not run-killing to fail, it's a mechanic that needs some explanation (seemingly trial and error has no cumulative impact on some people)...and it's best done via voice. I've yet to make it through 1 run where a random group got it done....and I've run this one a good handful of times. Last boss same thing. Not sure how many times I've had to type or say 'just follow me' or 'go to the color that matches the laser', yet 90% of the time we don't get done till at least 1 person is out and the remaining 2 or 3 people can do things right.

As far as tips/tricks on some sort of tab? Sure, but we've already got most mechanics explained in big red letters and skulls. People don't look at or obey those already. We already have people who will type or say instructions in group chat...and yet are ignored or shouted down. I don't see some additional pile of info being helpful...at least as much as it could become cumbersome (like if its a bunch of pop ups we all have to endure each run). Long story short is that if someone doesn't care about getting better, they don't have to most times, and those that DO want to get better already have lots of avenues to get what they need to do so.

Oh man I was running Omnibus and people kept wiping to the Sentinels

I hope Save The Universe gives us all the unpuggable Raids, Alerts and Duos

Well, Reinheld, with respect everyone should in a general sense be seeking out information that helps them improve. That shouldn't be a foreign prospect in anything you do, nor should we be creating an environment that coddles a person to the extent they no longer need to do so.

You're correct in that everyone has to start somewhere and everyone is going to have to practice to perfect things or improve, but loosely speaking, isn't that entirely the point of the game in the first place.

Yes there needs to be balance, yes you can't make the content "too difficult" but at the same time you also can't make it "too easy" it has to be fit for purpose and targeted towards the audience its attempting to cater too.

Removing the clamp, makes the game "too easy" on every objective level, in order to keep the game at least loosely challenging so that it satisfies the largest extent of its target audience it has to sit somewhere else, therefore argument "get rid of the clamp" cannot continue to exist, because it's too far to one extremity.

I appreciate you obviously have a potentially different view surrounding where you possibly think the clamp should sit, but it's not reasonable to suggest it not exist at all, it's probably also not reasonable to make the clamp so light it only exists as a namesake either.

Also with respect to your edit; I've put in numerous threads a lot of information about how to complete things, I just gave a big post to Tiffany in the other clamp thread, but I'm not going to post those types of things in 'every post', sometimes I'm just going to throw a bit of a sarcastic, facetious jab, cause sometimes people do just want to make zero effort, they just wanted us to join them in their crusade that this raid is impossible, it's literally far from impossible, these instances seem impossible not because they're impossible but 100% because of user error. If taking a little sarcastic swipe every now and again "makes me look like a bad person" then, oh well

This is me. If I'm in a voice chat, I'm in our Discord. I have game sound muted, so force me into a chat all you like...I'm not listening to you eating on your mic, or yelling at your kids, or breathing directly into my ear...just to hear some usually unhelpful information or insults. I haven't had a single positive experience with in-game voice in DCUO.

This is, of course, the generalized "you". I doubt you're personally guilty for any of those things.

I don't disagree with anything you are saying...here. People should look for info or practice with their powers, rotation...whatever. If doing a role (or at least queuing for it), they should be prepared to do it. Knowing mechanics beforehand isn't a requirement for reg, but paying attention to what's killing you, or *gasp*...listen to someone who might be sharing that info mid run (or here)...is.

And when did I ask to get rid of the clamp (recently)? While I wouldn't cry to see it go...or become optional...I've adapted and overcome it. I know how to avoid the issues with it and get to reap the rewards...should I choose to.

I've been known to snore on occasion....but I still do my job better than some, even when asleep.

Honestly when I do go over to a non private chat for a run, it's generally to share some info...shout 'block' a few times and if they don't get it...I'm gone way before they start yelling at their kids or playing their crappy music in the background. Exceptions are if a pug run turns into a feat run and I feel like helping. I will go to chat then and A) make sure they know what they are doing to get it and B) to mention they get 1 shot at it. You want DME no death last boss and are the first one to die? Yeah...sorry, you aren't getting that feat this run cause I'm continuing the burn/tank/heals...whatever. Purposely wipe a few times and the boots come on.

UPDATE: I just did this on my hard light alt -AoE Range, first time completing this since omni arrived.

when I joined the raid was already started, but sure enough they were stuck on the first fight. 3 tanks, 1 healer, 1 controller, 3 dps. we survived the first fight by a hair thanks to the tanks. i got one shotted a couple times in that fight, i was stuck in an animation couldnt block, got revived twice.

we finished the raid 51 minutes 15 seconds, idk the time when i joined, forgot to look.

i was top DPS with 5.4mil thanks to being able to hit every mob there was, 2nd place dmg was 2.6mil.

i couldnt scroll thru the list of players, but we had at least 20 players, sorted by dmg high and low and counted the names, the bottom and top list cut off 400k and 600k dmg numbers, so there may have been players between those numbers.

overall i am glad it worked out, however, i will be que dodging new genesis for awhile now, as i dont want to go thru that every week. the mobs and boss hps are just super high, the one shot at the first boss i found just to instant, not enough time to react (however, i will try to be mindful the next time and try better, always trying to improve), its too confusing for ppl hence why ppl just gave up so much. even after the first boss fight, ppl were quitting on the new genesis open world map, idk why they quit, but i did see players not knowing where to go. on the new genesis open world map, i felt the mobs took forever to defeat and they revived pretty fast. it was hard to activate the teleporter. steppenwolf and his mobs just had tons of hp, but that fight was prob the easiest despite players learning not to fall off the sides. we tried it like 3x and finally got it (i only died that fight upon request)

so obv doable omni raid with the right amount of tanks and determination, but needs A TON of polish to make it actually fun, the main reason we play video games!

good luck everyone!

Did this raid a couple time recently 1 issues was first boss 1 shots cause most was not paying attention to the bosses air spinning attack that is a 1 shot if you don't block other it tank not surviving bosses artic gust attack that can kill a under cr tank if no 1 jumps boss other was people running key wrong. Every time I had to go damage tank and beat first boss and last boss for the group. My main is earth with eog to keep myself alive. This has happened more now since clamp then before the clamp. Atleast before clamp there was people that could just power through now I have to power through it solo and its cause I know the mechanics and after I try to explain it after 1 wipe and to many just ignore what I say or type i switch to damage tank and keep going after everyone dies

I been sayin it since i came back. Almost all the issues these ppl have is cause they randomly Q up, dont communicate, or no one else in there communicates.
Didnt use to be this way…… mics used to almost be a requirement, competently building a group was a given.
Make content easy an boring enough that everyone Q’s us random day 1 an do that for years an years an then as soon as theres a “decent” challenge r mechanic, its “impossible” smh.