Can we have a discussion on how to bring might up, or prec down for them to be balanced?

Discussion in 'Gotham City (General Gameplay)' started by AKXC, Feb 9, 2022.

  1. Proxystar #Perception

    Yes, words ;)

    It isn't really the meta because it's not necessarily the best, it's just perceived to be because more people use it because it's the damage method of least resistence it more forgiving when it comes to player skill where mistakes might otherwise lead to more significant damage loss.

    The fact players on here like to "brag" about beating prec users is evidence that might is actually arguably as good, if not slightly better now (after all the previous nerfs) if you know what you're doing.

    Using that logic, precision isn't the meta at all, it's just perceived as being so.
    • Like x 4
  2. Illumin411 Loyal Player

    To be fair, there are SOME people capable of seeing outside of themselves and actually attempting to base positions on larger data sets as in evaluating entire scoreboards, monitoring LFG, etc. I'm not saying that doing so paints an accurate picture or isn't still partial and anecdotal, but not everyone is a me, me, me person (just most :p ). The reality is, if actual average damage output results from a representative sampling of the endgame player base is the sole or primary basis on which one is evaluating damage balance, it's very reasonable to conclude the precision is significantly better. After all, precision DPS's outperform might DPS's much more often than the reverse.

    However, the reason is what I described above when talking about optimal loadouts vs sub-optimal loadouts. Nobody does precision DPS "wrong", at least not for more than a little while until someone says "bruh, wth are you doing?". They might do it clunky or slow due to lack or practice, arthritis or sausage fingers or something, but almost never "wrong". Many if not most might DPS's are doing it "wrong", at least in terms of optimizing and maximizing damage potential. And that's what creates the seemingly true but actually false narrative of precision dominance.

    Exactly. I've said it before...the difficulty in might DPSing is mostly in finding the right recipe. The difficulty in prec DPSing is actually cooking it correctly. The former is much more difficult but only for a limited time until said "sauce" is found, then it's easy street. The latter's difficulty is in the perpetual need for arthritis inducing execution. Obviously, YRMV
    • Like x 1
  3. BumblingB I got better.

    I think if you step back and distilled what you just said. If they nerfed, and I mean scorched earth nerfed, Brawling and DW weapon mastery for the tap holds, you'd find that they are more balanced and it really is just 2 weapon combos that are the outliers. That the lack of diversity for Precision is the fact that there are 2 weapons and really just 1 combo for each, that is the problem here.

    In any regard. I'd rather them not scorch earth anything, but maybe slash and burn would be necessary. Oh well.
  4. Illumin411 Loyal Player

    Obviously the lack of diversity in options for precision weapons and combos is a huge problem. But it's not a prec damage potential vs might damage potential problem. It's a diversity of viable playstyles problem which also extends to non-elec/non-rage precision DPS's reliance on Neo-Venom Boost as well as most might power sets reliance on heat vision for single target damage. Pigeonholing is rarely if ever a good thing.
    • Like x 1
  5. Proxystar #Perception

    What they need to do is increase the damage output of other weapons to make variety more viable.

    Further nerfing DWFS and brawling wont push people towards other weapons, it'll just make people abandon precision altogether.

    But then again, I think deep down that's what some might players want...
    • Like x 3
  6. FullMetalTitan Committed Player

    Bruh it’s just elec and gadgets that’s op with prec. All these ppl claiming their might toons can beat prec (if gadgets or elec) I’m calling cap. I need to see video proof. But at the end of the day a nerf isn’t the answer because if they nerf prec than might will be king and everyone will swap. Then might will get nerfed and we’re going back to prec. Idk what the solution is but it’s a tough one.
  7. Siramez Well-Known Player

    if you're ice might dps, its not a you problem ;)
    • Like x 1
  8. DeitySupreme Steadfast Player

    My issue is that you have to take potential into account too. Look at the DWF nerf. The average player was not getting the 4th tick consistently while the good prec dps were. The nerf they did to DWF did little for the average because they’re weren’t getting it anyways. The ones who did feel the nerf were those who were doing it correctly. So they punished the good players while barely touching the average. And come to play with the end results, when using optimal builds prec falls behind might while the average players prec beats might. Because of this players are under the false impression that prec needs further nerfing.

    If anything I think prec needs buffing. No, not to DWF or to brawling. But buff other weapons to be in line with the meta weapons to give players options. With the might side they would only need to buff the under performing powers and leave the good powers alone. After that it’s a simple fix if not being able to use toys/bots in combat and you’d see a lot of these so called beast dps go back to might.
    • Like x 2
  9. KneelBeforeZodd Dedicated Player

    Maybe DW and brawling could get small nerfs, but they aren't a issue really. The thing is there are only a few precision weapons and artifact combinations for prec and they work with pretty much every powerset, so mastering prec is much easier. You can just watch 2 or 3 youtube videos and you have a big chance of having a top 2-3 loadout for whatever powerset you use. The problem with might is that there are too many artifact combinations and power combinations, so finding the ones that suit best every kind of fight (multiple bosses, multiple adds, single target, etc) is a much harder (and costly) job, so it's perceived by the community that prec is far superior in many situations when it is on par with a well tested might spec for most powersets.

    I'm all in for a fine tune for brawling/DW, as long as they do the long needed weapon pass, so prec players have to care more about which weapon using in each circunstance instead of just spamming the faster ones.
    • Like x 1
  10. HooLeeCow Well-Known Player

    Another person who dosnt know how to play might ? switch to prec but then you figure its not so good as well ? Thats mean problem is you not prec or might !
  11. Doctor Nova Devoted Player

    a throw away post, Shirley belongs in this thread:
    I've maintained my main stat origin augments at max rank since coming back from a 5 year break and getting them this past year. Vitalization and Might... ranked up Precision just in case and in recent months, ranked up Domination and Restoration in case i change powers. Lowest ranked origin augment currently?.... 288


    I'm not doing alts anymore. Left in 2016 for 5 years, systems in this game and R&D is in the state it's in, and .... pvp???? /gasp. ?shakefist@#ofmousebuttonclicks to get Wonderverse feat make 12 40.4 mods. OMG!! :rolleyes: R&D table, R&D vendor materials of packs of ten & Broker & 40.0 mods from vendor.... :rolleyes:

    If you have alts, are you expecting your league to bleed roles/users over time? Do peeps come and go when it's available and fun for them at times? The league/society i'm in had one other active user in the past year. meh. looking for.... society (villain USPC). I just went Premium again, this year very casual.
  12. DeitySupreme Steadfast Player

    Nerfing brawling and DW won’t change anything thou. Plenty of players have proven that might can beat precision. Nerfing prec just because players can’t figure out how to test won’t change the people who keep losing them calling for nerfs. Look at prec artifacts when they come out. People cry that prec gets any love and the artifact gets nerfed to the ground. There is not a single prec artifact that is viable. All artifacts that prec use are ones that are for prec and might.

    I’m all for balance. But not at the expense of nerfing skill for players who are to lazy to test. That’s what happens to flurry shot. Instead of nerfing the tick amounts they took away the final tick which was skill based. The only nerf to prec that would be fair would be to stop toys and bots to be used in combat. Than prec dps would be forced to use actual abilities with actual animations. Then buff other weapons to hit the baseline of brawling and dual wield. And buff might powers that are under performing.

    There is always going to be someone crying that something should be nerfed. Or someone crying that their power is bad because they keep losing to everyone. Just recently someone made a thread about being kicked as a tank and thought it happens out of spite. Yet they had an atrocious loadout.
    • Like x 3
  13. DeitySupreme Steadfast Player

    Sorry… what? What’s that have to do with anything said here?
    • Like x 1
  14. PolishEagle Dedicated Player

    LFG is a horrible example though. A group asking for prec may not know what they are doing. Its like if you see a group shouting for beast dps, you know its not the best group as its a group of people going into it saying lets try again tonight. If we just had more burn maybe we will finally beat it. My main is a troll. The quick runs of elite (and I have done 27 minute runs of phase 1), I only needed to buff might. I ask my groups going in if they need me to buff prec. Sometimes I do, sometimes I dont. It rarely matters on success rate. Prec definately helps 1st boss, but it is not the end all be all for that boss. Skilled players is absolutely what matters most.
    • Like x 1
  15. HooLeeCow Well-Known Player

    I saw who forming groupes like that trolers who have only prec buff artifacts ! Now it make sense ?
  16. PolishEagle Dedicated Player

    I wish I could give this a thousand likes. The best dps in this game dont go to google or youtube. They test, if anything the good old sparring target is where they start. I typically dont set in stone what I learn from sparring targets as I hate long casts. I prefer alerts to start as most dont have a troll I am counting on to buff, plus its less dependent on gemini cheese. I mean if we want to talk about a needed nerf their you go. And for those that put the time into youtube pages and web pages. Your work is appreciated. I think you serve a purpose. If someone is constantly getting trashed by 3rd or 4th place in a raid, I highly recommend your pages. I just dont think they are the right loadouts to be considered a top burner.
  17. DeitySupreme Steadfast Player

    My issue with YouTube is that few YouTubers actually know how to test. So many don’t even have parsers set up while others test aoe on ST targets. Then you have those that do know how to test but then discover a new better loadout or rotation. Even in the videos I post, people don’t look at the date and think it’s the best. I tell people that if they don’t know where to start than fine use youtube but don’t settle. If you only ever copy a loadout from YouTube than they best you’ll ever be is as good as that person was.

    Just last week someone told me that I was doing HL wrong and that I should do something else that’s in every HL video. When I refused they tried to have a comp with me for 1 billion. I didn’t accept because it wasn’t worth the effort. Not because I wasn’t confident but because there was no point. People will always believe whatever they want and if they lose they make up excuses as to why they lost. I had one person claim to have lag so didn’t want to pay. Another was losing and than their leagues tank “happen” to bring adds to me and I died and mysteriously no one picked me up. So I stopped doing comps..
    • Like x 1
  18. PolishEagle Dedicated Player

    Yeah they are silly. You need to have many arts to trade out depending on the situation. You should have 3 arts to buff your dps, 1 art to debuff adds when you get a burn the add boss like you would find in Coue, sometimes I play with some power suckers and I like Parasite Power Harness for those toons. If you still need a lot of feats, Scrap is handy in keeping your group alive and also can help on power needy groups. groups. I typically dont run the same arts for the entirity of the raid. Like in TSDE, Amulet of Rao is a huge mistake to run when Lois is out, but can make boss 2 easy if you are getting Cyborg and Canary as adds.
  19. PolishEagle Dedicated Player

    Yeah comps are always silly. There are a couple people on the villain side that I run with sometimes that ALWAYS after the first boss whine about lag. They never do it when I am on an alt dps who are more experimental and never top scorecards....but on my main dps, every single time they complain about lag. Same guys. It literally is a joke with my friends as everytime they say LAG, I say yeah its really bad, on my screen everyone is falling through the floor. Now I wont be lagging but I like to mess with them. Comping for money kind of sucks as if you dont know the healer and your opponent does they always get a couple seconds of dmg on me as I am trying to figure where the healer with his green circles are. I once saw it once where the heal stopped moved away from me to pop his sc.
    • Like x 1
  20. HooLeeCow Well-Known Player

    Maybe they just new or poor .