Can we have a discussion on how to bring might up, or prec down for them to be balanced?

I have absolutely no trouble moving while using might based powers. In fact it’s actually easier to get out of an animation for might than it is for weapons for skull attacks. So there’s a benefit for might. And what prec has extra slots? Maybe bad loadouts. Both l might and prec have a sc and robot (or at least can have them). So might had 4 slots to use a rotation while prec has to use the weapon buff so that’s 3 for prec and 4 for might. As prec you need things to clip your weapon or you do less damage. If you follow the simple 123 rotation for might than prec has its own simple loadout of 1 weapon 2 weapon 1. Either way that’s 3 slots right there alone. Even when using speed you’d have dervish and the other speed ability so that’s still 2 slots plus the weapon slot. So again, what was that about loadout slots?

But ...but....how do you 'win' then? Must....WIN....SCOREBOARD!

It’s been nerfed more than two times. The venom wrist dispenser which used to be the only good pure prec based artifact was nerfed to uselessness. The weapons balance brought the flurry shots damage down. Then the flurry shots 4th tick was removed when jump clipping. The relentless precision neck mod was reduced. The prec adaptive mods don’t give as much prec as they used to.

Add to that the Claw of Aelkhund which gives 7% might and no prec (other than the weapon buff that is already built in to the power heal) has become a meta staple of troll loadouts. Plus, many buff trolls only have tetra and not cog or have their Tetra leveled much higher. I have yet to encounter the opposite.

Another thing, artifacts as a whole are skewed towards might DPS. They have a ton of artifact options including Lerneaes Amulet which gives up to a 30% might buff (introduced just after The Venom Wrist Dispenser was nerfed to oblivion). Solar Amp, Soul Cloak, Pied Pipers Flute, etc. Then there’s the source shard and Quislet which gives both but a higher percentage of might for some reason.

Lastly, all damage supercharges that aren’t a percentage based overall damage buff are based off the might stat. For that reason might DPS have lots more options for supercharges. Prec only has Neo-Venom, an iconic power, or Circuit Breaker if elec or Berserk if Rage. So 14/16 powers have to all use the same supercharge if prec. Laaaaaaame.

I'm not going to get into a whole lot here, as I know what you are trying to say and I agree with you.

But, all you are saying is that Might needs artifacts to be effective, where if you stripped both a Might and Precision players of all artifacts, Precision would win, hands down.

Which puts this in a disparity between powersets and weapons. Brawling and Dual Wield are over performing the other weapons because of how fast they are. There are a few powersets that have nothing, which means they need other things to bring them up.

The only advantage Might has over precision is how costly it is for WM skill points.

I agree whole heartedly that prec has a significant advantage in mobility and survivability, especially in single target where so many might loadouts rely on channeled powers (my heart goes out to the muni dps’s out there).

What’s sad is that all the prec nerfs started coming rapid fire after everyone pointed to how almost all the DPS’s in high round groups in Survival Mode Seaon 1 (JLD) were prec. That was true, but they were making the case that that was proof of a damage imbalance when the reality was prec was preferred due to the mobility and ability to quickly cancel and block one shots, both of which were critical to success in the upper rounds.

IMO, it’s a much more valid and reality based argument to say prec should be nerfed to do less damage than might because you’re getting a tradeoff for mobility and survivability. But removing those aspects and focusing purely on maximum damage potential, there isn’t much to support people’s claim of imbalance, certainly not after the “flurry” of nerfs.

It's not prec. It's gadgets, electric, and super speed prec. Prec is king in the new raid also, because how we need to burn adds, and prec users can just swap weapons out while might users are stuck with ST or AOE

this isn't because of the precision components, it's because 90% of these rotations include either EOG spam (which benefits might users to the exact degree that it does precision users) or Speed Movement Mode Offensive Abilities (Tornado Pull or Whirling Dervish), or both - both of which you can spam to the same relative degree in a non-Precision rotation.

that also ignores Fire and Munitions Might, which are both consistently mobile (to the degree where they can maintain movement while currently outputting damage) and Gadgets as a whole (which remains highly dominant in either Precision or Might).

my solution is "reduce the Doom Spin Nerf by 30% so high damage output becomes a risk-reward factor based on melee proximity again", but that's not gonna happen so...

That could be true but even so, artifacts are solidly now a core fundamental part of this game so it’s not significantly relevant to damage balance today. The artifacts aspect is significant to this topic though on two fronts and is somewhat of a double edged sword. On one hand, might having several more viable artifacts not only allows for diversity of playstyles but also allows for the highlighting and maximizing of individual powersets’ strengths as well as custom tailoring loadouts to a specific raid, boss, feat or group makeup. On the other hand, it significantly widens the window for sub-optimal loadouts.

That, in my opinion, is the real primary reason why precision APPEARS to be stronger. With prec, there is very little variance in how it’s properly done to maximize damage potential as far as knowing what to do (actually executing is another thing though). But with might, you’re looking at choosing which six powers to use, when in the rotation to use them, power interactions etc PLUS the various possible combinations of might artifacts to use (and the cost in money and time just to trial and error). That aspect leaves a great deal of players lost in sub-optimal loadout land. Prec DPS’s outperform those countless sub-optimal loadout players 9 times out of 10 as long as they can execute the button presses. That’s what creates the skewed optics of prec/might balance and keeps the pitchfork manufacturing industry thriving!

That tippie-towing they’re doing while casting ain’t saving them. In DCUO elite content, it’s cancel and tumble or DIE!

I would like to discuss what might power are you? Because you certainly arent munitions, mental, or fire if you think prec is better. My might dps is non of those powers. I never lose to prec, however I always lose to munitions and I see that Mental and fire are pretty good. I hear water and electric is doing good. I am also curious on your art situation. Are you comparing yourself to people with 3 200 arts? I actually like where prec is at and that we have 3-5 powers plus pet dmg dps that are close to equal. I mean if anything needs to happen to the balance it would be nature, atomic, and quantum should be brought up.

All you need to know about the imbalance is seeing the shouts in LFG for elite raids asking for Prec DPS. Hop on Twitch and see any of the “elite’ist” toons/leagues that only run with their league or others of their small circle and every DPS is Prec using Brawling on ads and DW on single target. These individuals always migrate to the new flavor of the month but in this case Prec has lasted for a while even post nerfs. It’s still out of line, whether the devs take another look is up to them but there’s no need to come in here and deny it.

I agree with Lorax, at this point if you're might and struggling then stop using the wrong artifacts and allies and get a better loadout.

Prec uses less power because that's the point, my lower alt characters definitely feel power to be an issue despite that fact.

The top end precision loadouts still require a reasonable amount, precision players carrying a pet also have a power penalty unless you have a 200 grim.

Also it's DWFS that's particularly mobile, brawling less so.

Also people keep saying precision is broken, it isn't, we all know that some powers take advantage of precision in ways that are arguably unintended or imbalanced.

Those individual powers (like gadgets) are the issue but people are stupid so the moment they see someone simply using brawling they scream "oh my gerd, broken weapon!!nerf it with unhooooly fire!!"

A big reason for that is wanting to solo tank the first boss. Prec flurry shot can DPS Lois while she's mixed in with adds with little to no damage splitting. Most might ST loadouts aren't really pure ST loadouts so some boss damage is lost to splitting. Potentially even more important is that once Lois is out and any remaining Snipers have been killed, the last thing you wanna do is kill any more adds since doing so could potentially spawn more snipers.

Tanking competency not withstanding, two tanking first boss (aka the smarter not harder way) eliminates any advantage prec has in TSDe. But you know tanks these days, always trynna flex...

Or maybe you just aren’t as good as you think you are. I’ve put dpsed some notable prec dps who I won’t mention because it’s not my place to do so. Precision isn’t the issue. The issue is players not wanting to test loadouts and just copying what someone else tells them works.

It isn't really whirling dervish, that move gets used a lot because it's useful for clipping, especially brawling, but isn't absolutely crucial.

You can make a perfectly performing decent loadout without WD using other powers, so despite the fact WD is good or arguably even the most optimal the witch hunt against WD I think is a red herring.

Lol, nowhere did I say anything about me, my damage or how good I think I am. But ok!

You didn't need to, you implied it was an issue.

If you're might and your loadout is fine then you would know the idiots in LFG demanding prec users were wrong.

Instead you've attempted to use what they're doing in LFG to assert their is a balance issue that exists.

Your assertion of a balance issue directly asserts through implication that might is inferior despite any best effort to keep up and this includes by direct virtue yourself, otherwise you wouldn't have said it...

Ergo they disagree with you and because they disagree with you and are might the only logical conclusion that can be drawn from that, is that you're using a bad loadout

Words words words, words words, words. Words. I honestly don’t care if Prec is the Meta, I’ve done it and simply don’t care for it. But it can’t be ignored or disputed that it’s the current Meta.

The LFG comment was just an observation, whether I agree or think they’re idiots is irrelevant but I would never require a certain power/skill when forming a group. Same as the Twitch observation, again totally fine that Prec is the Meta. I actually enjoy running into a Prec DPS and going at it, I bounce around powers pretty frequently out of boredom.