Pet Builds are at a Disadvantage During Stat Clamp

Discussion in 'Gotham City (General Gameplay)' started by Ryazan, Jan 30, 2022.

  1. Ryazan Dedicated Player

    It is. I'm pointing out in the thread that in clamped content, our pet's damage will remain static because our CR cannot increase there. Pet builds are benefiting a lot less from the stat bleed than other normal builds.

    This is not to complain about the clamp, but about how a pet's damage needs to be calculated from more than just CR alone.
    • Like x 4
  2. catplaysxoxo Loyal Player

    Pets damage always came from cr not skill points. The clamp agenda with pets has already been discussed when it was on test server. We been over this already. As you increase your cr your pets will get stronger. That’s just how it always worked. Gaining and maxing out OP gear increases your cr. Someone with max cr going into clamp content will be at an advantage compared to someone of relevant cr level.
  3. Ryazan Dedicated Player

    This same person at max CR with, say, 600 SP, will also be at a disadvantage regarding how effective they are, when compared with another person with the exact same stats but not using a pet build.
    • Like x 4
  4. shoegazer Well-Known Player

    Yeah..but we haven't always had a clamp..
    • Like x 2
  5. Plowed In Loyal Player

    But simply because they don’t benefit from every potential source doesn’t mean they’re at a disadvantage. You’re measuring from top down rather than from a midpoint. Everytime I stop dpsing and do a pickup, my dps goes down…but you’d agree it’s worth it. Guess who’s pets are still attacking while I’m turning your cog? There’s tradeoffs to different builds, regardless of whether it’s clamped or unclamped.

    In fact, pet builds were actually at more a disadvantage when stuff died before you could even get 2 attacks off. Grim is targeting already dead bodies less now. And as people need to occasionally block more now…that’s time for pets to do a little more dps.

    All of this aside, any pet build still has a significant output from the player (supercharges or direct damage attacks) that still benefit from stat bleed and buffs/trinkets.
    • Like x 3
  6. Plowed In Loyal Player

    So are you suggesting that pets should behave differently in clamped vs. unclamped content?
    • Like x 1
  7. Ryazan Dedicated Player

    You're missing the point here. Yes, pet builds can still benefit from the bleed in those attacks, but someone with a normal build is benefiting significantly more from this.

    If person A has 50% of their damage coming from pets, 50% coming from themselves. And person B has 95% of their damage coming from themselves. It is pretty obvious that some sort of buff that is only increasing damage from ourselves will benefit person B significantly more than person A.

    I would suggest changing the way a pet's stats is calculated. Let its stats be connected to our stats rather than to our CR.
    • Like x 3
  8. Plowed In Loyal Player

    Sure, but you’re assuming that Person A and Person B are both operating at 100% optimal rotations for the entire raid/boss fight. Person B loses significantly more output (as a percentage) whenever they:

    A) have to block
    B) have to do a mechanic
    C) have to do a pickup
    D) don’t maintain proper distance from a boss/get out of range
    E) get grounded/knocked back/knocked out of their rotation

    All of these situations benefit Person A more than Person B.

    Numerically, what is this stat bleed? How much has it increased your output vs having no bleed?

    I do get what you’re saying, just it isn’t a major concern at this time. Could it be down the road? Sure. If it gets dramatically out of whack they could just add a constant to the pet level from the CR (if CR is 150, set Pet to CR + 3…something like that).

    Could they rework pets from the ground up? Again, sure, but that’d be a massive undertaking that’s probably not worth the return.
    • Like x 2
  9. shoegazer Well-Known Player

    Non-pet builds get to incrementally increase in older clamped content but pet builds don't?...so as we get further along and people gather more SP everything else will do more and pet builds will remain stagnant?...doesn't seem right to me

    This is one of the big problems to me about the stat clamp..it limits playstyles..and in turn will push even more players towards meta builds, etc..conformity through restriction.."you will play the way we want you to"
    • Like x 3
  10. Ryazan Dedicated Player

    I tested this on my main (CR 359), and the pet was also sitting at 336. It seems to be exclusive to Wonderverse (the only tier 6 clamped content so far), it feels more like it's an error because in content from other tiers, the pet has the same clamped CR as I do.
    • Like x 2
  11. Plowed In Loyal Player

    No, the clamp allows people to run different builds. No one cared what you ran when there was ZERO threat in an instance. As long as you could weapon tap you’d be fine.
    • Like x 1
  12. Ryazan Dedicated Player

    Actually, our pets do stop attacking if we get out of range. So point D is moot. As for E, the pets can still get cc'd and die. Additionally, we cannot choose what our pets attack. You are right about the other situations though, but it doesn't seem enough to shift the meta from the typical boring cards + Lerneae builds. :(

    I wish pet builds were given more love. Even something like readjusting Source Shard's buff to benefit from our stats could already be a good change without needing to rework the pets themselves, though I would prefer if the devs tackled the pets themselves.
    • Like x 3
  13. shoegazer Well-Known Player

    But they care now..that's the point
    • Like x 2
  14. Plowed In Loyal Player

    Point D is not moot and is probably the most important one.

    Ever activate stealth as gadgets and miss surprise attack because you’re too far or Nightmare Flash teleports or Abra heads off to activate a statue in FVR? Or Brainiac teleports to do a strafing run or teleports to the middle in Flash to the Future, which causes you to change target to an add? These are devastating misses for optimal might rotations. Or what if you activated Neo Venom and your trinket and jumped in a supply drop…just in time to miss? It happens…and they can only be for split seconds but have very different impacts on pet loadouts vs might/prec loadouts.

    Knowing your power in and out and knowing the boss cycles is a world of difference just in a powers potential output. The passive, consistent nature of pet dps loadouts keep it somewhat safer from the highs/lows that other loadouts suffer from.
    • Like x 1
  15. Plowed In Loyal Player

    Did someone specifically say you couldn’t run a pet loadout in an Omni raid because you were a hinderance on the group? I’ll show you PCE where pet loadouts are pretty beneficial on the Lady Blackhawk fight.

    Or do you only run with 4/5 gadgets Prec dps with an EoG healer? Is this where you set your expectation bar?
    • Like x 1
  16. ALB Dedicated Player

    Per builds are at a disadvantage period. I have a sorcery and sorcery toon I play. Both have the shard at 200. The real problem come in when there is a buff troll
    • Like x 2
  17. shoegazer Well-Known Player

    even if they aren't saying it now.. if something stays stagnant? with this community?..how long until they do?..did you think forcing people to play this way wasn't going to create more friction between players?..more bias towards playstyles?..

    And dude, if your only advice to get content done is to form groups? that just helps feed into more exclusivity

    And I don't run with anyone...I've stopped running older clamped group content altogether..because all I see is an already biased, toxic, crap community on it's way to becoming worse

    But regardless of feelings about the clamp..the fact of the matter is before the clamp you could increase this by increasing your CR..this is not a possibility when your CR is clamped..if one build can get incrementally better than in FAIRNESS all builds should be able to
    • Like x 2
  18. nawanda Loyal Player

    No, you actually have a point, that is how it ended up. The only positives for me are that I got to identify someone who belongs on my ignore list, and I’ve got about 20 more likes. But, I do wish I hadn’t bothered engaging with that person.

    And I like how you tagged on a passing comment about the actual topic of the thread in order not to be able to be accused of being part of the problem of unconstructive posts. You’ve obviously reflected on the response you got to trashing that new member a couple of weeks ago. Nice one.
    • Like x 1
  19. Proxystar #Perception

    I have a primary pet dps build which I'll even battle tank with, it works well, incredibly well, even in clamped content; so although I appreciate what you're saying I'd ask you to 'define' disadvantage.

    As Plowed said pets provide you with other advantages, such as targets other than yourself and damage on the boss regardless of what else might be going on in the fight to you, they die very rarely and if they do, they realistically on every practical level simply return (certainly your primary ones).

    I have virtually no issue keeping up with players with my pure pet build, only losing here and there, so even if by "disadvantage" you're talking about the scoreboard then it's pretty insignificant, if you're struggling on the scoreboard (every instance) you're probably doing something wrong, even with your pet build.

    The other thing of course is to not pigeon hole yourself, I also have a single target more classic build to activate at any point in time it might be more warranted, because sometimes you do just do what you gotta do, far too many players in this game seem to stubborn in what they do, they'll continually fail because they're inflexible in their available playstyles, insist, no I will do it this way and only this way or else. :)
    • Like x 1
  20. Pale Rage Dedicated Player

    I hear ya lol. I run pet build sorcery in Omni every week (for the mission) and rarely am I ever lower than 1st on dps.
    • Like x 3