Instances you won't run with the stat clamp?

Discussion in 'Gotham City (General Gameplay)' started by aikuma2, Jan 22, 2022.

  1. 9001BPM Steadfast Player

    I knew DWF was going to be a problem… but nobody listens to me. :(
    • Like x 1
  2. Qwantum Abyss Loyal Player

    In order the best i can w/no coffee yet lol
    1) even clamped your OP. Go run anything u remember doing at relevancy an look how fast things burn etc. to claim theres no progress is absurd. Is it easy as you (not YOU you, but generally speaking) want? Prob not but is it far easier than relevancy? Yes so theres progression. Someone not feeling that speaks to their level of ability to play the game.

    2) its designed into the game, its not backward thinking. Its actually sorta the point of an MMO. Building raid parties, playing with friends etc. if u wanna ignore everyone an play solo and dont communicate then stay out of group content rite?
    And ok, you do you. Build the group how u wish. I add ppl from lfg all the time. I have almost no issue with built groups. Its the blind Q’s where u get the randoms that the issue surfaces.

    3) as it should be, its ELITE, its not supposed to be easy and as i already explained. Alarge portion of the game and HuD is designed around communication and forming groups. If you dont wanna do it, this may not be the type of game for you. You should NOT be able to blind Q elite, not communicate, and just pew pew mindlessly to a win. To think otherwise is absurd an runs counter to the point of the game and design.
    And as for “we used to be able to Q up an win”. Yea, because it was designed poorly to allow you to do that. The new players that got some gear an feats (you say it like it was good an healthy for the game) learned nothing. It wasnt good for anyone xcept those who want it easy and/or already know how to play. When new players breeze instances and learn nothing they become end game players that know nothing and hurt teams they join.
    You can prove this by inspecting peoples augments.
    You think it was better before but now, rainbow CR skippers prob aint completing any elite or other stuff an may actually need to learn to play and thats healthy for the game :)

    4) no it shouldn't, by end game, these are things and skills players need to already know so they arent mucking up the runs that may actually pose some challenge. End game is NOT the time to be explaining to people what red means or a skull or why rainbow augs is foolish……
    Your largest complaint it seems is that you want your runs to be smoother and easier yet your entire premiss pushes the learning curve into the most relevant and challenging content making it less smooth and harder. You speak of backward thinking yet dont see your own OR its that you dont care about the health of the game or quality of player or anything xcept your own individual experience and want the entire game design to fit your idea of what it should be. To that, do i personally wanna breeze old co tent when i go in? Of course. Its easy as is but much easier pre-clamp. The difference is, my personal preference isint aligned with what the game needs and new players need etc. i understand the value in learning early, communicatio , etc so yes im pro-clamp for the game and players as a whole because by end game i need these people to be “up to speed” a d kniw what they are doing. Thats not the time nor place for them to start learning.

    5) yes, many people are in fact saying that “takes too much time and is too hard” have been said numerous times in numerous threads.
    Theres another thread currently where people are activly claiming myx’s game in the new alert is too hard smh. “Too hard” if of course part of the root of alot of this.
    And heres why its too hard…. Because per your idea of what it should be, people are learning at end game (dont get me started on CR skips) when the process of getting to end game should be where they learn.

    6) agreed, i dont run omni either, theres no point. Yes, it was supposed to help newer players but it doesnt because all it doe sis Q for everything which has been an option we had via on duty from day 1. Omnibus solved nothing. Its smoke an mirrors and your smarter for not wasting your time.
    I hear all the time “i do it for the marks”. Lmfao what marks? You get marks 10x faster an easier by doing any number of other things.
    It was poorly designed, and does not somve the issue it was put in place to solve sadly.
    • Like x 1
  3. Drathmor Unwavering Player

    you know as well as I that some group just wont be able to do some things, but that was the case even before stat banding
    that's just the breaks of playing a MMO
    if someone wants good clean runs all the time with out relying on the competence of others there are single player games that are avaibile.
    I am sorry that people have problems with some ques but the odds are just as likly that a player can get qued into a group that clearly knows what they are doing and has a quick smooth run and pops all the feats they are missing.

    both are common now and were before also.
    as joker says "you pays your money you takes your chances"
    • Like x 1
  4. Reinheld Devil's Advocate

    Well, some runs it wouldn't matter...at least that's the pitch with all this talk of 'one shotting the bosses' and 'dead in 30 seconds' pre clamp....right? If I were in DWF and the group had 7 other nincompoops, I would be able to complete it if I were not on a completely squishy alt. So your 'get gud' 'learn the mechanics' which seem to be directed at individuals who are 'crying' about things would indeed apply. Except where there were 2 man buttons or mechanics that required more than 1....'get gud' meant finishing a run that went sideways. 'get gud' when pointed at someone individually now doesn't really apply as 90% of the players in this game who are 'gud' can't be expected to solo a raid...and those that can are 'breaking' the whole point of the clamp...aren't they? I mean there's an exception to every rule, so yeah...I'm sure it CAN be done...but likely it's not going to be done that often. And I'm not talking about being the last guy standing when the boss is 98% dead....because that happens now...same as it happened when the runs were new. I'm talking about runs where the likelyhood of 2, 3 or 4 people dropping or avoiding mechanics early in the run are high.

    I 100% agree, if you want to get something done for sure, build a group. If you 100% want to avoid a failure in Omni, avoid certain runs you KNOW have a decent chance of failure (like DWF). Again, THAT was the whole topic. You are acting like MOST of the responses in here are 'it's too hard....I can't do it'. Most are 'its too annoying, because of the randoms.....so I WON'T do it'.

    CAN'T and WON'T are 2 different things. CAN every run be completed? Sure....eventually. I still 'WON'T' run many of them in Omni...and since Omni is the only reason I'm ever in clamped content...not built groups....that's the parameter. I'd guess I'm not alone.

    You are right on the Joker line though....I just choose not to pay my money in some runs, because it's a sucker bet.
    [IMG]
    • Like x 3
  5. BumblingB I got better.

    There is no content I wouldn't run clamped, save Elite. (Which is another conversation for the other threads.)

    There are some I wouldn't random queue into though. Like, not because it's clamped, but because of either the mechanics or I just hate the content. Like I can't stand the Metal solo with that Flash Batman. Or I wouldn't want to go into ones I'm burnt out on, like Throne, because of StU. If DWF popped, I'd probably give it a go. I've done all the other harder ones randomly.
    • Like x 2
  6. Reinheld Devil's Advocate

    Yes....because of SIU I will NEVER run inner (alert or raid) or FOS2 again. TD? That's a different story.
    • Like x 1
  7. kabeq Well-Known Player

    I queue into anything until I've got my Omnibus done for the week, then that's it. There's so much content now, and I have 3 end game toons it's all I can do to run my daily missions.
  8. Drathmor Unwavering Player

    I get that some content is more group reliant than others for sure. the problem most of us have with the people complaining about the clamping aren't with that aspect of it.

    those types of instances can be addressed on a individual basis here by creating threads on specific instances and getting community support on them being altered in specific ways to accommodate the issue. heck I made one just the other day about the BOP solo how Steve Trevor needs to be balanced with the rest of the instance as that one fight in there isn't on the same par as the rest of the instance. I gave specific content and specific changes that should be looked at to bring that one instance in line with its overall difficulty.

    the problem we have with these stat clamp threads is they are blanket calls to have a whole function of the game removed and making all kinds of claims that its about time or difficulty and nothing to do with feat hunting. then when pressed with people saying ok so what if you were given the option to run them unclamped but you cant get feats
    they immediately start back peddling saying oh no that's not fair. Showing what they are really after
    Mepps has already stated that the steam rolling content was never something that they intended to be possible and something they aren't ok with. he used different words but the gist is the same.

    this is were my objection lies. and I'm no gate keeper to this game I just express my thoughts and opinions like all the rest of us. and will always fight for things not to be just handed to people who feel entitled to something not earned as others have had to. not saying that about you just a blanket statement .
  9. BumblingB I got better.

    [IMG]
    • Like x 1
  10. Drathmor Unwavering Player

    war games good movie
    • Like x 1
  11. Reinheld Devil's Advocate

    See I don't actually want the content changed (except maybe that HH drone you can't burn solo now...you COULD do that at level). I like the fact that DWF in Omni will be a fail if you don't do mechanics. I HATE the fact that ToTD Ares fight was nerfed to practically eliminate the Essence heal mechanics. Steve Trevor (or Hive Master) has always been OP, if they hit you with the beam in the solo....even when we were unclamped. Stay in the beam...die (or get on that soda quick)...that's fine....and getting through that fight (or the M1 solo) definitely falls under 'get gud' parameters. It's you against the content...not you and 7 ball and chains.

    I'll just avoid those runs I know can be messed up easy OR are stupid long. No worries here. This was never a complaint about the content....the content is fine as far as I've been in it. The players are bad and I can't make them 'get gud' no matter how 'gud' I am (debatable), even IF I could do the thing solo...why should I? Isn't that why we got the clamp in the first place?

    I'm perfectly happy to leave them to wallow in their badness without me (hey...maybe they will learn something....someday...but they will learn it elsewhere). Yeah, I'm an advocate for an unclamped option (won't happen) but that's only due to grindy things that take forever. DWF failing has nothing to do with grind items...everything in there is 'skill' related (except the collections), so the only way I'll go in there is to get a 'skill' based feat...which I won't do with randoms...and won't mind that it's hard or mechanic heavy when I go there. I actually have a few toons that need DWF feats, so maybe one day when I have nothing to do, I'll go there. That's not today...or tomorrow.
    [IMG]

    If we start adjusting the mechanics down to accommodate those that can't handle it....how is that different than running an unclamped option? What? Cause it takes longer it's better? So all we end up with is 'clamp=more time=better'? Cause some fresh off the skip random player can feel he contributed by making some pew-pews? I guess the next raid we can have a brick wall boss that just stands there while we beat it for 80m HP. Yea, Participation! Well, if that's the case...yet again, why do we even have the clamp?
    • Like x 2
  12. Drathmor Unwavering Player

    I'm not really for turning mechanics down myself as I enjoy the challenge.

    Ill use the Steve Trevor example again : I'm all for the fight being hard heck my wife almost always calls me in the room to do that fight for her as she cant get past it on her own. The reason I made him as the example I don't necessarily want his moves changed or mechanics changed. I only posted it because of the over all feel of the instance changes at that fight. if they are balancing content that content should be similar through it as a whole. that content and a few others if your looking at it like a bar graph you have a serious spike at that one spot then the bar goes back to steady. heck Lobo who was hard when new (or harder ) is like a joke when compared to Steve and to me it seems the adds when they come out are hitting way to hard. I'm 358 and it will take me from full health to almost dead in a single punch from one of those adds that pop out before he dies. at least it looks like the add doing the damage now that i think about it I really should check the log as to where that hit is coming from.

    anyway I brought it to their attention. if they change it I'm sure it will be great for those skill challenged players. Ill continue to keep running it no matter if its changed or not.

    I just believe we will have greater success in bringing the content to correct levels if we are more specific in our request and more honest about what's is hampering players so that if the devs feel something needs adjusted it can be.
    • Like x 2
  13. catplaysxoxo Loyal Player

    DWF got nerfed and still people are having trouble. Mechanics mechanics mechanics will always be the number one cause for wipes.
    • Like x 2
  14. Reinheld Devil's Advocate

    Just wondering....did you tell her to 'get gud'? If so.....how's the couch and PB&J sandwiches?

    My point was that the 1st boss always had that 1 shot (or 90% shot really)....I don't believe it needs to be tuned. Steve/HiveMaster were always harder than Lobo as long as you didn't stand directly in the bike's attack path. Other than to help your wife, not sure how this example plays any different than nerfing ToTD's ares fight...which I'd guess you would also agree, was not required IF people followed mechanics....which they didn't.

    I realize we are now talking about 1 thing, but I think it applies. If they nerf Grannies shield in DWF because it takes too long to burn...but only really because people keep attacking adds or darksied...or just plain have no burn...is that 'balancing' or adjusting things down so that bad players can still succeed? I see it as the latter and don't really want it. Even that HH drone shield I referred to...although it seems denser than it was at level, you CAN still get it done if you can herd 2 other players into jumping on it...no real need for a nerf there. Carol's 1 shot in LnW, Hive Master's beam in Machine....there are a bunch of examples of things that seem 'too hard' now....but 90% of them are avoidable with good play or proper equipment (like the adaptive augs MOST don't have). I don't want those removed or nerfed unless you are just giving me an unclamped run I can go solo quick (with AQS) like the good old days. Clamp or no clamp....not half-bassed clamp that just takes forever and provides no real difficult challenge....only longer runs.
  15. Drathmor Unwavering Player

    I dont see fault in any of what you said, when I speak of balancing it I most likely will never mean change the mechanics that people should learn. they either learn them or they should fail and fail until they learn them. if something requires you to hit a switch or put in a object or kill adds to bring down a shield then let those people fail and I have no sympathy for them (heck thats half the fun in new instances figuring them out). Altering the damage something does or tweaking them a little I understand.

    someone who just used a cr skip or was carried up through content will never have the same lvl of knowledge that those of us that have played forever have so i understand when at times the will nerf something to help the masses handle it easier. not a giant fan of it as we had to figure it out but I do understand why the devs would do it.

    saying all that most of this game is a cake walk and the criers can just get gud lol :p
    • Like x 1
  16. Reinheld Devil's Advocate

    A) I don't think anyone here (except 1 maybe) is really 'crying'.... B) can you be online to jump into any Omnis I land in to let at least a few of the other 7 to 'get gud'? When I tell them it doesn't seem to work...you may have more luck.

    I'm normally on between 9PM and 3AM CST....I'll hit you up if I end up with 7 'not gud' players so you can fix them. Thanks.

    If that's not acceptable, I'll just keep avoiding those runs that I feel hold a better than 80% chance of failure through no fault of my own....BTW... the BOP solo is NOT one of those so....
    [IMG]
    ;)
    • Like x 3
  17. Qwantum Abyss Loyal Player

    So if you tune content down to “bad players”, they wont know, learn, get better, or think they have a reason to get better (exactly like what happens in pre-clamp). The dif is devs tuning content to accomodate poor play vs us accomodating it by carrying the team/player.
    Both different things result in bad players staying bad.
    This is the fundamental reason im pro-clamp. Anything i can get to make it harder so people learn to play coming up.
    Its too late if they are learning (or worse, dont realize they need to learn) in end game.
    To me the clamp is a good start. better and less forgiving mechanics is reg is the next step but lets be honest, anything is better than nothing.
    Even if the ONLY net gain was content takes longer, isint more time/button presses under their belt better than less?
  18. Qwantum Abyss Loyal Player

    Im with you on avoiding
    Thats only for a few reasons tho.
    As for help “fixing” these players and helping them get better….. yup, hit me up, i will come dps for ya and i will tell em to “git gud” i just wont say it that way unless they bring it on themselves.
    I will offer to help, try an explain roles an mechanics etc.
    In the end, if you cant fig out or handle the content then you dont belong in the content even tho your CR from the skip says you can be in there.
    As soon as these folks stop having their hand held (which convinces them they are good) they may actually be in a position to learn an get better.
    Im not the best, not by a mile but im better than most and im willing to help and share that because i want end game player to be able to contribute and this “rainbow pew pew” aint cutting it lol
    • Like x 1
  19. shoegazer Well-Known Player

    Seems ridiculous to adjust content one instance at a time instead of just adjusting the clamp..

    Just do something like make the CR in old content the same difference between min endgame and max endgame..and adjust a few things here and there..you can't "one shot" (pro-clampers favorite false narrative, that no one has been asking for) things with that difference

    If some top tier, "been playing the game since launch" player with 700 SP thinks it's too easy..WHO CARES..guess what? Some things are gonna be too easy for you..but we're talking about content that hasn't been relevant in years..needs to be more accessible to all types of players..including the differently-abled (which I'm ashamed to admit I had to be reminded of by a post in a different thread)..want to relive the hits that's what upscaled STU content is supposed to be for

    And I think this whole idea of the community coming together and learning and "playing together in harmony"..is a pipe dream..this is a mostly toxic, crap community..one that they've refused to clean up for over a decade (unless it costs them money of course)..we've got people here in another thread calling all DPS a cancer to the game..and we all know how much worse it gets in game..and we're gonna force people to play tightly clamped for longer periods of time together in everything and things are gonna get better?..that's a joke
  20. Ultimus Primus Well-Known Player

    I have run more content with the clamp then I ever have without the clamp. I have had no issues feeling powerful and my support roles also do very well. I have gotten feats I didn't even realize I never got also. I will better clarify I DO NOT run elite anything ever clamped or unclamped, but as far as the rest of the game I am all good running clamped.
    • Like x 2