Episode 42 ressourcse managment.

Discussion in 'Gotham City (General Gameplay)' started by zNot, Jan 9, 2022.

  1. zNot Loyal Player

    Episode 42 ressource managment.
    The Episode is a improvment from what we usually get its a decent one but i think it has some issues,if we we talking about a raid focused episode this wasnt one. The duo is filled with mechanics on all 3 bosses, same as alert. The openworld has 4 bosses and a huge new map but empty map in conclusion = thats a waste of ressources imo.

    Solution:

    1. Re use the openworld map/modify parts of gotham/metropolis or other old maps oolong island,bludhaven,gotham wastelands and only put 1 openworld boss in there,if you really wanna use a new openworld map then dont make it huge,its a raid focused episode.

    2. Alert and duo only should have 2 bosses and not 3 bosses keep in mind that we have elite alert AND elite duo two elite versions that take away ressources that could be used for the raid.

    3. remove stages 2,3,4 from the Raid or atleast reduce them maybe keep 1-3-5. ideally the most difficulty fifth stage and the first stage should remain to save ressources.

    With these adjustments we should be able to get a second raid with like 2-3 bosses or one raid but with like 6 bosses instead of 4 like with the current episode 42 raid.

    If i can give some examples of episodes that felt more raid focused ill name them. Metal part 1,Age of justice,Justice League dark,atlantis,origin crisis.

    Would appreciate if a dev would respond to this and say his point of view and how realistic my suggestions are.
    • Like x 1
  2. xxHELLSTROKExx Loyal Player

    I’d rather 2 raids with 3 bosses each or maybe 1 with 4 and 1 with 2 but an add phase like Lois fight or the anniversary 3rd boss setup. From my own perspective, the elite stages are a waste. If we need to be enticed to do them with special rewards then clearly everyone thinks they’re a waste. The added challenge was supposed to be reason enough according to the players that wanted it, myself included. Haven’t been in and probably won’t be till it’s 100% glitch free and then just to get the feats and never go back.

    Asking them to reuse open worlds every time is never going to fly considering there is plenty of population that doesn’t care for raids and wants more open world. They need to find a happy medium so while some want more raids, some will want more solo content. Changing the alert and duo setup at this point seems pointless. They’re quick and provide enough challenge in elite that it makes it balanced enough to be fun and still quick and then still challenging while being easy to get a group together. I just hate this alert in particular so not even running it myself on any toon. Or I run with friends and we leave at last boss. Not cuz it’s hard but because it’s so lame.

    You listed JLD as raid centric but aside from reusing some of Gotham and little things, that had a huge open world, a pretty difficult alert that would have ravaged people with an elite version, and the 3 boss raid/ 4 boss raid setup. It was a great dlc. But asking them to make duos and alerts shorter/ less boss fights is a big no from me. They’re our every day fun and they barely take 10mins. Hell, the duo in reg is 4 mins. Take a boss away and it’ll be 2.
    • Like x 2
  3. zNot Loyal Player

    Maybe removing Elite version of alert could be a option? I assume duo is more popular amonst casual players so i would take away something from the alert, alert is my least favorite content plus solos, it seems like barely anyone does the elite alert anyway? i would really like them to remove it there needs to be more raid content at top priority when making a episode imo especially when its a raid focused episode.
  4. Charon Lead Content Designer

    We're still finding the sweet spot with Elite+. The first time it wasn't really to anyone's satisfaction. This time we swung for the fences with more mechancs unlocking rather than just stat increases. It was probably too much on our end. My thought is to do max of Elite 3. So it's elite, elite 2, and elite 3 This makes it more manageable on the team.

    There will be new chase items dropping from these raids that some will only drop in higher levels. We'll likely add more feats too with our bonus content update, across all pieces of content. We do think it's not worth it to do 4 new elite levels and knocking them down to just 2 more elite levels gives us options to incorporat that into at least 2 of the raids.

    The next iteration may pan out to be a more involved open world with more solo and weekly content, no solo/duo (adding the rewards you'd get here as more conent in the open world), an alert, and two raids. Maybe some secondary God Ring with hopefully less grind to an extent, but that may come back in ep 44 instead. There are a lot of potential bosses in yonder desert open worlds.

    We're still in the planning stages as we attempt to get some design debt upkeep out of the way for the remainder of the year - getting vaults set up, HoL Foyer decorations and quest NPC/Vendors set up for each Seasonal, episode conversions into Omnibus Tiers, etc. so it doesn't derail us in the middle of development for episodes. Example, we'd get sidetracked having to support Vday, St Paddy's Day, April Fool's Day, and maybe even Spring when we're trying to work out content for EP43, allies, artifacts, etc. The derailment doesn't help anyone.
    • Like x 11
  5. xxHELLSTROKExx Loyal Player

    I don’t know, all I see in LFG is Giganta or towwe shouts. Anyone that runs that daily for a bit can skip the elite raid and be full renown pretty quick. Especially if running the duo daily. Alerts are always popular. And a lot of players love the elite alerts level of challenge. The levels of elite are a nice addition but if anything “has” to go to make other aspects of the game better, without a doubt that is what needs to go. The devs have the data to decide in the end. If the completion rate is low/ and if they can see how many even bother attempting and it seems worth it to them then great. I’m thinking they did it to quell the loudest complainers. The ultra elites that make vids saying that end gamers are being forgotten and ignored
    • Like x 1
  6. zNot Loyal Player

    Hey there Thanks for the quick response!

    So I think stat increases are very good if the base mechanics are already difficult, there dont need to be that many more mechanics added at upper stages imo stat increase keep the difficulty up even when fully geared which is nice. For example i think it would be nice if the upper stages would be similar to survival mode where they have much higher stats which would also be easyier/faster for you to adjust then to just do new mechanics per stage.

    Yea i can imagine that your team has to do alot of things (too many things i should say) in a too short time period of time i hope maybe someone up there can solve the issue so that you can focus more on the Raid(s).
  7. TheLQ-DCUO Loyal Player

    Wondering if it is worth merging this thread with my Elite raid stage thread, similar topics.
  8. Chewsy Well-Known Player

    I think these are all good ideas for the next elite raid. Adding some extra mechanics with a little stat increases per difficulty level makes more sense than adding a bunch of mechanics per level. It’s hard to remember which difficulty has which mechanics if there are so many difficulties, anyways. Personally, I have always enjoyed the episodes that were more raid-focused, so 1 alert and 2 good raids is enough for me, as long as there is an open world and/or systems to keep us busy during that DLC. Adding incentives (besides a feat) to complete these higher difficulties would hopefully entice people to run them more often.
    • Like x 1
  9. TritonD3 Well-Known Player

    Stop trying to cater to the VERY vocal minority would be a good first step. It also seems like you guys are understaffed. Everything seems to be a struggle.
    • Like x 2
  10. EconoKnight XIII Legion

    I always find it interesting how many of these forum posters are EU players once you dig into it. The EU is low population server by my understanding (which cut even lower after the 800 account ban allegedly hit them hardest) - so it’s a minority in a minority.
    • Like x 2
  11. zNot Loyal Player

    I think most can agree that raids are the most popular part of a episode interms of instance based content? So the more raid content the better right?.. the elite raid stages will be reduced from 5 to 3 as charon said which i agree with. For a raid focused episode this was way too little raid and too much alert/duo.

    If they could remove elite version of the alert and duo/solo and to put the extra ressource from that into the raids instead then it will be more balanced and less elite heavy and more raid content for everyone (second raid,more raid bosses!)
  12. xxHELLSTROKExx Loyal Player

    Many many players would be absolutely angered if they remove elite versions of daily que-able content. While I agree with most of what you’re saying, you are not correct that “many prefer raids” at all. There are tons of players that hate raids. Plus whoever is designing the raid isn’t automatically the one designing the duo or alert so resource wise, the only thing that helps is making less versions of the same content.
    • Like x 2
  13. zNot Loyal Player

    They would still have all the content they usually have i think Elite duo and alert are a luxury maybe they can keep elite duo but i would then expect the duo to have just 2 bosses instead of 3..

    i dont want raids to fall short or suffer less raid content because of duos that are done so fast or a elite alert that we do daily and many find them a chore,raids are just superior imo i mean the devs have the data and so on to see that. Even i avoid the elite alert cause if i want a challenge ill do the raid no need a elite alert or duo.

    Most casuals or players in general dont care about elite at all anyways right? so why keep elite duo and alert? If even the endgame players just talk about elite raids and not about elite duo or alert Thats too much elite reducing the amount of content we get for all players i mean a second raid would benefit everyone,We will have elite raids plus stage 1,2,3 as charon said in future episode(s) thats enough elite.
    • Like x 1
  14. Dark Soldier Dedicated Player

    I hope thats not you saying the lex luther eye piece will only be in elite
  15. BumblingB I got better.

    Removing a daily low man instance that provides elite renown makes it more difficult for players to acquire elite gear if they can't dedicate a lot of time to the game. I understand, I know, raids are the bread and butter of elite, but something like this hurts that middle area of players that struggle with elite raids but are above normal.
    This is understandable.
    • Like x 5
  16. xxHELLSTROKExx Loyal Player

    Because there are feats attached to elites. The only way to make Joe or Jane casual not care about elites entirely would be to remove all feats/ gear/ special drops. While they’re included, every single player will want to try to get all the sp they can. Taking away the ability to slowly accrue renown would also mean that all sorts of players that aren’t ready for elite raids would que/ answer lfg shouts to get that renown anyway. And then the cries to make elite content easier start up again. You’ve found yourself in a tough position that most end gamers have. We need to realize that we are the vocal small community vs thinking we’re the important demographic. I know I’d hate to lose the elite duo and alert because that’s how my alts get their renown. Only one, occasionally 2, of my toons goes into elite raids.

    Edit: honestly, if given the choice between elite duo and alert vs multiple stages of elite raids: I’d chose the alerts duos and scrap the extra stages. I can make elite raids more difficult just by picking up some friends alts or using lfg and not being picky. So day 1, my main and my friends mains go in and we spam it till it’s easy. After that, running a toon without op gear and maxed artis in a random group make it more than difficult enough generally. But those elite alerts are always a challenge every day. The elite duo can be tough and grants extra coin so that’s a win.
    • Like x 1
  17. zNot Loyal Player

    If they wanna keep elite duos as i said above then 2 bosses are enough. But elite alerts and elite duos in a same dlc are overkill and take away too much development time away that could be used for the raid content instead,I think removing elite alert is better cause elite duos are easyier to enter and to complete and for the most population and probably would also save more rss.
  18. BumblingB I got better.

    You said it. This game is going towards development of too much elite. Okay, whatever. We have come to terms with that. There needs to be a long run for it or it will always be inaccessible.

    BTW, and Charon can correct me on this, Mepps said years ago that a solo takes just as much development time as a raid. Which would put in line with what Charon said that they would be removing a solo/duo and make another raid. The problem comes from this is that it's more raid centric content. Okay, so bolstered open world. Great... only that doesn't help the players that actually liked the elite duo/solo because as Hellstroke said, it helps slow boat the renown to acquire feats and styles that are locked behind the elite title.
    • Like x 2
  19. zNot Loyal Player

    I know endgame players are the minority and the people that requested elite duo and elite alert werent casual then cause most players dont care about elite right? So removing some elite (Elite alert,duo) good for the casuals and bad for us minority so my request is a favor that would benefit them cause we would all get more raid content no matter elite raid or regular raid a second raid with more bosses is a win for everyone for all difficultys :)
  20. xxHELLSTROKExx Loyal Player

    I’m not sure you’re understanding. If the elite duo and alerts go away, all those players that just do it to get the gear to pop a feat or go in to just get feats or even an extra coin will lose that option. So that means they go into the raid to accomplish the same thing. So 1st level of elite would need to be barely more difficult than regular so they can all run that. If it’s too difficult, the cries for nerfing will be louder than normal since all those players that have gotten used to running elite duo alerts will now only have the raid as an option. And that creates another problem, it’s easy to spam and max renown day 1 which means we won’t bother running higher levels more than once or twice to get feats.

    Plus again: taking away anything is never a good idea. It’s literally a downgrade no matter how you try to spin it. 2 raids is nice and all but personally, I don’t want to lose daily fun for it. As is now, since I’m not running the alert, 4 toons takes 45mins. And that’s all I play because that’s how it’s set up. When I enjoyed the alert, like WV and FP, 4 toons took 2hrs. That’s a lot better for retention. But 2 raids means less replay sales also so that’s fine by me because I wouldn’t do any replays unless triple marks. Renown would happen within a month without replaying with 2 raids.
    • Like x 1