Sorry but Gadgets has to be fixed!!!

Usually you should get kicked out of stealth after using one damage ability (besides stealth specific abilities). Now, with tornado pull, you have a delay of 1 second before you get kicked out of it, but in that time you can use other abilities too.

You can clip with any platform the same way. Theres just a drawback for old gen consoles or old pc hardware that makes your game lag badly after approximately 50 stealths (nearby player stealth counts too).

From what I understand, there is a delay on consoles that is probably intended to help for fluid gameplay and latency problems, but has this unintended side effect.

I'm not able to do this kind of clip on PC unless I have god clicking hands, since there isn't a whole lot of lag. But on the switch, I'm sure I could. (I don't own a PS or XB.) But then, I'm limited to my hands cramping, because I'm starting to get older and them bones aint what they used to be.

Don't misunderstand, it's possible on PC, I just am unable to do it myself. I'm sure some players could do it or setup a macro to do it efficiently.

Im on PC its easier on PC.

it can, to a degree, however:

• The proc damage duplication (where Stealth/Invis procs multiple times in a rotation containing only a single use of stealth/invis) seems to function less well will a stable connection. To the point where reproduction is very conditional and not altogether frequent. Still experimenting with that (I have access to both "good" and "questionable" internet connections)
• It also seems to function most ideally with Movement Abilities, especially Speed Movement Abilities - meaning that it barely works with Abilities outside of those types of Abilities.
• At this point, it doesn't work At All (that I have seen) when using Pain Blast or the Gadgets equivalent, Surprise Attack, which are the strongest single-hit Ability attacks in either Powerset; still currently evaluating that, but the initial combo review indicates that using the glitch was actually causing a decrease in damage compared to my standard rotational method, (non-glitch dependent, trade secret) though this was on a Mental character (Flight) so those may be other factors of accountability for the decrease in damage since I can't just spam Taser Pull as a viable DPS methodology.

So far the only part that works 100% as alleged, 100% of the time is the dual-clipping (the Offense Ability, Stealth/Invis, Offensive Ability clip that fires two offensive Abilities and the Stealth/Invis proc while clipping them together) into the Stealth/Invis transformed state - the issue(s) being:

• does not work well with DOT setup moves, frequently knocks you out of Stealth instantly and will not reliably proc the Stealth damage tick, thereby reducing the window for execution while transformed
• frequently robs later Offensive Abilities of the Invisible/Stealth damage proc when used from the transformed state

According to the OP, this can be done infinitely - as of right now, I'm positive someone would have to be hacking for that to be the case. Either way it goes, while there is SOME bug in there, I'm not convinced that it and it alone are the sole sources of Gadget's efficacy. But I'm off lunch now so it's time to go do what I get paid to do instead.

If you say so...

There are a couple other powers that allow for that in addition to Tornado Pull though one of them is ALSO a superspeed power, lol.

Since this thread is requesting to fix Gadgets, the stealth lag should indeed be fixed too. I'm easily losing at least 10%-15% of my damage when it starts getting real bad.

At the end of the day, whether they fix this or not, players are always going to find a new "Meta". If Rage became the new Meta DPS power tomorrow, people would find fishy things about it and complain, not because Rage is the best power or because it's somewhat cheesy (not saying it is, just using as a random example) but because they aren't on top of the leaderboards anymore or can't be. Same reason why so many people defend Gadgets and it's cheesy mechanics. If people stopped caring so much about the scoreboard, this conversation would die out and everything would be better. I get the competitive nature but it's not like the other powers are completely unviable. This discussion keeps being brought up because people can't stand being blown out on the scoreboard.

It's not like the content is impossible without Gadget DPSes, it's just easier. If that was the case (we can't do the content unless we have Gadgets DPSes) than I feel like we'd have more meat for a discussion. Ego and competitiveness are motherf******.

I mean, like I said - I don't really have a horse in this race.

The way in which it is broken is verifiable, but the more exploring that I've done into it? It's also a lot less egregious than people are making it sound; flatly, people are accusing it of doing things it isn't actually doing - like there is no "infinite clipping" happening, for starters, and if it is I'd lay money a hack is involved.

Additionally, a lot of the outlying damage potential that seems to be manifesting using this bug relies on things that we already KNOW are broken. So...

I think it just depends on who you run with. Run pugs in reg and you probably always feel like a big dog. Get into a well built team trying for a speed feat in elite and there's mostly prec and suddenly everything seems terrible. Issue there is that there are plenty of might builds that can do just as well, they just need to be willing to go the extra mile with tac swaps if the precs are also doing that. Plus, are we talking 1st column or 2nd column? Cuz that 1st one ain't that important but that's the only one I lose to all but 1 prec player I've ever encountered and I was admittedly playing lazy and not swapping like they were. We just had so much burn that I didn't need to care. But even then, it wasn't by much in 2nd column

The only thing I know to be verifiable and undeniably not working as intended is that iconic and movement mode powers proc steal damage. Even more than that, they can proc the stealth damage when cast outside of stealth if their animation is clipped with stealth. Though, when I discovered this I tried using every acro and iconic power that made sense in every place/function in the rotation that made send and didn't really find any clear benefit other than Tornado Pull as the first power can in stealth. Although even then, I'd still make the case that Cryo foam is a better option there anyway unless it's a situation where you need to avoid are/splash damage or in a boss fight where adds are present but there' no point in burning them. With the P.I applied from taser pull or napalm grenade, Cryo foam hit's for only a smidgeon less than Tornado Pull on average but Cryo foam is giving you five extra ticks to proc the Strat Card

Not to mention that attempting non-stop EoG, no matter how uncalled for, wasteful, or detrimental it is in a given fight, is a huge part of what the mainstream Prec meta is... resulting in artificially inflated General Damage during boss fights at the cost of meaningful Boss damage. It's why its not uncommon for some Precs to be up slightly going into a boss then Shocked Pikachu when they end up behind in both categories due to getting blown out in boss damage. Even then, the powers whose best boss rotations are good ST and good AoE (ironically including some of the "worst" powers despite them being some of the best for the General category) simultaneously can do the same on Might without sacrificing boss damage to begin with.

Pre-Nerf Prec was on par with pre-Amulet Might but because of this mainstream "Prec is the goat, Might sux" mentality, Might kept getting fun and interesting new ways to play while Prec had its most competitive (but sometimes situational) options systematically nerfed and has remained pretty damn stagnant. Now, this is what Prec needs to perform in boss fights:

- An effective base Crit Rate about 7% higher than Might's (weapon buff mod + Omac Trinket)
- EoG stacking (if Might tries this it loses damage compared to better min:max options) + content with lots of superfluous trash in boss fights (ie. ones that can and should be ignored but can be meaninglessly EoG splashed to boost General Damage numbers)
- Free clips (Omac trinket, Turret clipping) and or Circuit Breaker (a buff specifically balanced for the weaker Might ST but with zero drawbacks when it comes to Prec).
- For apparently more players than I realized, macroing (for some reason)
- For some console players, apparently, abusing/exploiting Stealth exit clips (can't be reliably/effectively done on a passable PC... and considering what you have to sacrifice to do it I'm not convinced its actually very advantageous to begind with, much like the console-only Water crit exploit...)
- And, realistically, preferential buffs from the Troll.

Yet even with all of those advantages and applied sweatiness, Prec's general min:max is brutal on account of its extremely stagnant arti situation.

Yes, Turret clipping and Circuit Breaker should be adjusted such that they don't give Gadgets and Elec a unique advantage vs other powers when using Prec. Yes, people shouldn't be exploiting/abusing console limitations and such issues should be addressed. The latter, however, is a bug exploit issue. Those in the thread asking for outright nerfbats as opposed to the obvious corrrective tweaks needed to align Prec for every power are effectively asking for Prec, in general, to be terribad.

Assuming we're talking about the same thing, it is intended that iconic and movement mode powers trigger Stealth's proc damage. The change was made back in 2018 during the Atlantis Episode. Here is the relevant post:

-- https://forums.daybreakgames.com/dc...ent-mode-ability-changes.298804/#post-4178767

Exactly. I haven't really been consistently evaluating scorecard results and tracking trends, etc since before tac swapping became a widely used thing. However I know for sure that at least up to flurry nerf...errr...change I knew and occasionally encountered might dP's that could keep up with optimal prec damage . As for tac swapping, I don't know enough about it's broad applicable benefits across all the powersets and various meta loadouts. But if it doesn't;t heavily favor either might or prec vs. the other, than it should still be the case might and prec DPS are comparably close with using op-timized loadout.

AMEN! I can't remember the last time I looked at the first column unless someone in chat is specifically bringing attention to it in regards to something they're talking about. Being acro I get to the add more two or more seconds later anyway plus it's not uncommon for me to utilize hallway add portions of raids to respond to tells, get something from the kitchen, look around my living room for the controller charge cable that I'm always missing, etc etc. Hell, I think ISe with it's seemingly never ending hallways is the first raid since FGSe that I've actually used my supercharge, orbital or supply drop on hallways adds, lol

I agree with a lot of this and had been putting off making a long post about the real reasons both gadgets might and prec have elevated to where they are. You touched one a lot of that here though. What's really funny when you think about it is that the nerf to venom wrist kind of eventually had the opposite effect of what was intended. Essentially, that nerf was what actually planted some of the primary seeds for future adjustments to metas/trends/etc by divorcing prec from having to structure it's loadouts around minimizing the time intervals between weapon buff activations. Another residual effect is that without the VWD providing such a high buff that you couldn't not run it, the artifact(s) that typically replaced it gave high might stats too and in some cases additional benefits for might powers (P.I., etc). And which power would additional might stats benefit the most???hmmmm. lol

Hmmm, didn't know that. Thanks for putting me on game. Though I'm still pretty sure they shouldn't be proccing it when cast and then clipped by stealth. But like I said, I couldn't find any ways to exploit that to any benefit.

Yea, we all have an whats going on is not much anything really.
Allies aint game changing nor game breaking however unbalanced powers are
Some need fixed sure but fixed r not, its minimal impact compared to an out of balanced power

True id like to see what they think about this topic.

Especially since OP powers (gadgets) in this case dealing too much damage compared to anything else in the game do influence difficulty on Elite raids especially if the content is so DPS centric!!!!! which is something alot of players complained about elite raids lacking difficulty and being completed in a very short time making it feel rushed and not challenging.

And we know that charon does intend it to be difficulty but aslong as we have gadgets being OP it will make it easyier not counting the troll artifacts aswell that buff the 5 DPS (actually it buffs everyone) in the group and the dps centric design that we get in elite raids its all tied together.

Why are you still crying about gadgets in a game where class disparity is irrelevant due to PVP neglect? Just reroll gadgets if it bothers you that much.

Hell, gadgets whiners are weirdly silent about superspeed.

The answer isn't to cry for nerfs or because you've been outplayed by better players. It's "what, if anything, is a reasonably competent player lacking for a given build or class in terms of being viable.

Viable isn't topping the charts and bragging about it because of a lack of genuine validation in your life, aka: stop obsessing over hypothetical gadgets players doing better than you at a PVE mode.

Its not balanced it outperforms anything in the game which effects PVE difficulty that should be enough of a reason to fix this clip feast of power and its stealth nonsense! Sure nerf superspeed thats not even much of a big deal anyway compared to the imbalance gadgets causes

Just don't play with gadgets players if them making the class work for them and pulling higher numbers bothers you- and nerfing superspeed was the wrong answer too, btw.

Stop crying for classes you don't like to get nerfed and ask for buffs if there's a real issue with your own class. Which I rather suspect a lot of the time...there isn't.

Not crying i think you are crying because your OP power is getting exposed,the OP is gadget himself and wants it to be fixxed whats your argument on that one? Also you dont know my power so stop assuming i could be gadget too.

Btw theres no excuse its a fact that gadget outperforms any other power in the game interms of damage if you think that OP powers should exist in the game then it already shows enough of your skill level are you having issues to play with balanced powers?