One Death in Elite Content No Longer Needed?

Discussion in 'Gotham City (General Gameplay)' started by BumblingB, Sep 20, 2021.

  1. xxHELLSTROKExx Loyal Player

    It's ok everyone, I'm here. Keep as is. Reason: enough changing the game. Yes, I remember back when this wasn't a thing. I also remember a lot of other things. This game is changing a lot lately. Some think for the better, some think for the worst. But this isn't something that should happen because we will beat elites in minutes. Well, we already are. Ok, seconds? Idk, it would just be cake walk easy. It can't happen, I would never move again. Like hey, I'm down pick me up. Oops, down again, pick me up. Yup, still on fire, lemme tacswap in a repair bot real quick so I can continue not to move and pew pew pew
    • Like x 1
  2. BumblingB I got better.

    Though, I get your point, but I don't think it would work like that in the long run. If you are going down to just get picked up over and over again, you will A) cause a wipe anyways, because the person picking you up, could go down (there is an actual statuary in the league halls for this. lol) and B) You really aren't doing damage if you are down, which just means you will be in the instance longer and probably cause a wipe because more chances of group to make a mistake.

    It doesn't change the content's difficulty. Usually elite content has more than just more damage and health (StU updates aside, as they didn't adjust the content already designed.) The challenge would still be there, but the devs don't have to be limited to working within the confines of can they complete it with 1 death? That really is restricting, as remember, this is a product, they do need to make the content completable.
    • Like x 2
  3. NotMeMaybe Active Player

    So because you struggle to complete elite content, and can't understand what one shots you, you call the one shots random and want elite raids nerfed again?

    What about NO?
    • Like x 3
  4. Warped Discord Moderator

    I'm sorry but Obsidian is right on this one. I was interested in reading the thread you started along with the input and constructive feedback people were giving to your original post because you actually brought up a good topic of conversation until you started making asinine requests that certain people can't give their viewpoints because you don't think it should be brought up or it's not relevant to the topic at hand. I have yet to see one post in this thread where he has bashed one specific dev as you have stated. Mentioning two devs who work on elite content does not imply that the rest are bad. Implying is based off of emotions and not facts.

    Getting back to the original topic at hand though, as everyone else has pretty much stated, removing the death counter would be pointless unless you can compensate for it. The death counter is what makes some elite content difficult and most one-shots aren't random (also previously stated). In fact removing the death counter would be a cheap way of just being able to avoid mechanics entirely, as you could just keep getting picked up (under the assumption the group doesn't wipe) and pass said elite content.

    There's a reason there's a normal version and an elite version. If you want to run content that doesn't involve death counters where you can bypass most mechanics just fine with infinite pickups, then run the normal version and leave the elite content for the players who can actually mitigate certain one-shot mechanics.
    • Like x 5
  5. xxHELLSTROKExx Loyal Player

    While I was mostly trying to be funny, I can promise it would go something like that. Not sure you saw obsidians recent video where he's water in fos2e but check out the bizzaro fight. (I'm not picking on you OC cuz my lord, he straight took my gear to 0) That fight is a perfect example of what would happen. He murdered their group multiple times. He was murdering any group multiple times. But that 1 fight doesn't have a death limit so it is still easy. Which is why not 1 single cry for a nerf to bizarro happened.

    Now if this did go thru, assuming similar content to what we have now, each group would be comprised of quantum troll, quantum dps's, and 3 tanks. 1 real, 2 battle ones. So they'll always survive the one shots and be able to do pick ups. Healer can be whatever but there would only ever need to be 1. Since their job is now "minimize the downs but it's ok if they happen so green spam and go battle role"
    • Like x 1
  6. Great Architect Loyal Player


    I'd argue for clearer signalling over removing that. In FRe Huntress has the "KILLME" icon over her head for the entire fight, and yet she's one of the few one-shots. But that icon obscures her skull. I've learnt to look for the skull icon next to her health bar, but if you're not focussed on her, you won't see it.

    The "Cone of Death" way is also good. Showing where an attack is about to hit is good.
  7. BumblingB I got better.

    Alright, I wont say more about it. I'll not acknowledge it nor try to keep the topic on point. Thank you for pointing it out to me. I appreciate putting me in my place. :)

    That was NEVER what Elite was. Having the fear of death is one thing, having no wiggle room is another. Elite content is not supposed to be just a harder hitting higher health 1 death version of normal. They always add more mechanics to the battles that added onto the challenge, but with the recent "it's too easy" response in so many threads started by the same small number of people, they are calling it so. Why is that? It's not because the devs are lacking in the ability to make hard content. I'd argue the opposite is true, it's because this is a business and they need to make content also completable to sell it.

    As I pointed out in a reply to Chill, they did a significant fundamental change to the game. Especially to how Elite content is consumed and Renown is earned. With the addition of solos, duos, and alerts, it now is way more open to players, albeit, longer or more costly to get the same result. Which, mind you, is also the same for any normal content when it goes with progression.
    • Like x 1
  8. BumblingB I got better.

    No, I don't watch Chill's videos. :)

    In regards to the fight you are mentioning, you are right, but good luck keeping the pickups going. Eventually all will go down, including the tanks.

    As for your group makeup, at least that is building a group to challenge any of the content. When TotDe came out, that was the same mentality to just get through the Ares fight. It still was a struggle and you would get overrun with adds and good luck recovering too many times if you had infinite pickup. The same went with Survival Mode upper levels. Which again, I think is the epitome of Elite content and you get infinite revives as long as you can do the revives.

    Edit: Again, content can be more open to difficulty and they already have the idea of a choose your difficulty slider that gives you a higher chance at better rewards.
    • Like x 2
  9. EconoKnight XIII Legion

    [IMG]

    There’s always a trick for the elite
    • Like x 3
  10. xxHELLSTROKExx Loyal Player

    The changes in renown are nice I guess but it is giving out some false hope I'd imagine. Like cool, someone got thru the solo 200 times and now has full renown and can get that gear. That doesn't mean that they will be successful in a raid environment at all. We can all admit that the solos and duos are baby level elite I'd think? The FP alert was amazing tho. Guessing not many spammed that for renown. The LLL one.... yeah not so much. Mostly cuz clearing the barrels and trapping the brown suit guy in a corner made it so anyone could do it.
  11. Great Architect Loyal Player


    Elite is aimed at what the publishers of this content decide is Elite. Whether individuals have a differing opinion is irrelevant. If Elite is too easy for you, then guess what? You're more than Elite. Hooray.

    Elite is what they say, not what you think.

    I appreciate that the hardcore need something to keep them interested, but let's consider this for a while.

    People like Obsidian Chill spend a huge amount of effort into reducing the game to optimal loadouts, optimal rotations. But when everybody is running those loadouts, those artifacts, that clipping... you make the game easier for everybody that can afford or do those things, but harder for everybody else. Because the game has to adjust to the meta you have defined.

    Just stop it. You're not helping everybody. You're only helping people that think like you.
  12. xxHELLSTROKExx Loyal Player

    Haha, well I'll let you guys discuss that. But in that video, I think 6 were down at 1 point? At least 4 were for sure. Full recovery. Think it even happened more than once. I'm slow as can be and can pull off 3 pickups generally in 1 counter cycle. So if the downs did go away, I'd think the counter needs to be cut down at the very least, still assuming no real difficulty challenges. But from my own experience, we can recover from more than half the team being downed at once.
  13. xxHELLSTROKExx Loyal Player

    I'm not sure I can agree with this train of thought. I will say that I almost always go against OCs advice/ builds and yet can perform just as well/ slightly worse/ slightly better and all it takes is a bit of time on a sparring target or a few of the same instances run back to back. He, and others like him, give a great starting point to many players. They didn't create the metas, they just tested and gave their hard work results out. That shouldn't be considered a bad thing, it should be the example of how the community should be. OC may be a bit of a grumpy guy on occasion but he's helped a lot more than he's hurt. Can't hate someone for speaking their mind even if you disagree

    Edit: he's literally bashed both my healer build and my dps build. While I disagree with his reasons as to why he dislikes, I have no issues giving my reasoning for how I'm set up. It doesn't make me hate him, we play differently and with different people. Just saying this so people don't think I'm one of his henchmen.
  14. Heywiar Committed Player

    DCUO is an extremely simple MMO compared to others. Elite content is a joke anyway and removing one of the only slightly difficult things about it would make the content even more boring, in my opinion. There will always be players who want to run harder stuff...that's just how it is. Almost every MMO I've ever heard of has content that caters to the "tryhard minority." Yeah its artificial difficulty, but it is almost all elite content has right now.
    • Like x 6
  15. BumblingB I got better.

    Oh and being able to recover like that is what makes for a skilled group. If more than half the team goes down, it comes down to getting the one with the shortest timer first, then having them get the next guy. I remember watching Odyssey a lot, during the Dox days. Watching them recover for a near wipe is always impressive. I really don't think the average player is capable of that and really impressive when pulling it off.
    • Like x 3
  16. Warped Discord Moderator

    What are you referring to as elite not being? Maybe I'm missing something here or you just took what I said out of context.

    I have to disagree with there not being any wiggle room. You're talking as if you can't avoid certain mechanics that will one-shot you in elite. There is plenty of wiggle room to learn and become a skilled player if you wish to run elite content. Even the hardest elite content has been completable (maybe by a small minority of players, but still completable) so I don't think selling it is the issue.

    I agree that elite content is not supposed to be just higher health and harder hitting bosses, but that is exactly how it's been. Maybe one or two additional mechanics? But not enough to really make it a challenge.

    I also get that it is a business - no explanation needed there. But sadly, we're not going to get anything super challenging elite wise because the majority of players are casual players. Removing the only thing that keeps elite content somewhat challenging is simply a no from me. As I said in my previous comment, if you want to run content that doesn't involve the death counter, that's what regular content is for.
    • Like x 3
  17. BumblingB I got better.

    How do you know that they, the devs, are not limited to development of the mechanics because they have to keep in mind the 1 death counter?

    So follow the meta and git gud?

    Excuse me while I buy a respec token for Super Speed...
    • Like x 3
  18. xxHELLSTROKExx Loyal Player

    No need for superspeed, I'm full renown in every dlc (in most cases within 1st week) and have never used ss on my main. I'm not even sure it would help since flight gets a lot more advantages than people seem to realize in some instances. Probably because everyone in there is ss and never tried flight. Grodd and brainiac fights, stay in the air and never get damaged.
  19. BumblingB I got better.

    ACROBATICS:
    [IMG]
    • Like x 5
  20. xxHELLSTROKExx Loyal Player

    Lol welllllll they have a grappling hook and who doesn't want a grappling hook??
    • Like x 2