One Death in Elite Content No Longer Needed?

No no, see strategy is not the problem. Working with the group is not the problem. It is finding a way to circumvent the mechanics and creating a single use meta THAT IS the problem. That usually results in the devs getting upset by that and adjusting things somehow.

That is neither here nor there, anyways, because this isn't really a discussion on how to cheese elite, but on whether or not the death counter is necessary anymore.

I'm sorry, but you are wrong.

YOU think that only two devs are capable of making YOUR idea of difficulty and all YOU are doing is saying that the rest of the devs don't matter. That is YOUR viewpoint and should not be included in this conversation.

I guess a bigger question is are elites still necessary but I digress

Yes because the vast wealth of elite experience you have to draw on somehow disproves facts with how elite content has played out. This isn't my viewpoint or opinion this is stating how elite content has shaped itself and who was behind it. The development team could be capable of anything if set to task, I can only base it off what we've already seen and there is a easy correlation with that level of content. If you really want to exclaim to us that you know the entire inner workings of the development cycle that is your prerogative but I personally doubt that is going to help YOUR viewpoint in this matter.

If you feel any member of the development team wouldn't be able to handle any sort of constructive criticism then who is actually the one being disrespectful?

You want to justify the death counter being removed but you aren't aware of the detrimental impact that would have because of what would be required to supplement that change and when we show you the portfolio of content that would meet said criteria you cry foul when we bring up who was attached to that content.

It's not constructive criticism when you are saying "X-dev can't do it". All that says is that they are a bad dev and should stop designing. THAT IS NOT OKAY!

Stop trying to throw YOUR idea of what YOU think is correct. This is NOT YOUR game, it is their game and we just play it.

You can certainly suggest ideas on how to make it better. You can start topics about adjustments, but don't, and I repeat, don't start insulting other devs in a conversation about difficulty. Because that's all you are doing, which is also a means to derail a thread you don't like.

I played a little bit of WoW Classic. Those once so hard, almost impossible raids for casuals, were now completed as fast as they opened. With similar and usually even worse gear than back in 2005/2006. People got better at playing.

Im just saying it is hard to make elite content, that is still very very hard for veteran groups. Without making those instances some memory puzzles that require coordination that makes North-Korean army parades looks like slobs.

I forget could you point out where I said _____ dev can't do it or they are "bad". I said without the devs I stated we won't get near that level of content that would warrant death counter being removed. What am I basing that upon? I dunno multiple years worth of content, what are you basing your replies to me on? feelings.

Your feelings are what is derailing your own thread. Are we all of a sudden not allowed to talk about how content has worked out in the game any longer? Are we not allowed to point out all the issues we have at release and on test with raids and then not try to use that to justify why its doubtful foundational changes will work out. It's called being realistic. If you want to request some new style addition then that more than likely will stand a great chance of making it into DCUO. Requesting something foundationally to change with Elite content, considering we haven't even had any adjustments to powersets in 1+ years and the supercharge revamp was rolled back and the weapons pass did nothing you honestly expect removing the death counter to be a smooth transition?

Put your feelings aside please and let us stick to constructive conversations.

Thank you

Isn't the point of a forum for players to have discussions and express their viewpoints?

We may not agree on things but Obsidian has a right to his point of view, same as I do and you do.

DCUO Elite - content for robots.

“Analysis - equip phase dodge. Executing. Upload YouTube video. Less views than Multiverse. Malfunction. Malfunction! MALFUNCTION!”

When you name "two" and say they are the "only two", you are saying the rest are bad.

My feelings? Oh, I'm definitely feeling something when you are insulting the developers in a thread that has nothing to do with who can produce what. Yes, I'm salty about that, because YOU ARE TRYING TO DERAIL THE THREAD!

I have no problem if you came in and talked about your ideas on the topic, but your second post was about how the devs can't do it and of course you know what's right for the game, when you are NOT a developer, just a youtuber.

You want my feelings put aside, stop trying to derail the thread by insulting someone. LEAVE IT OUT!

____

On the topic, it was a discussion on the direction of the game and what is necessary for it. The 1 death counter was not liked back when Throne of the Dead was introduced. They created Elite content then was the only means to get dropped gear. This of course was changed during AF3's introduction. Where you could go the renown method.

Is the one death necessary? The developers are looking at content right now, because they made a fundamental change to the game. This created a change to how Elite content is ran, with the inclusion of alerts, duos and solos. Especially in the EEG criteria. They have been saying, all the way back to TotDe, that we would eventually be able to outgear the content. That is no longer the case and there is a void for access on the content if it can't be completed before it goes to EEG.

Maybe they remove the limit when it goes to EEG? Maybe they look at an escalating difficulty that higher points have the limit? There are a lot of options.

Instead of just saying they can't do it, because you know better, think of solutions and points that can help the conversation. Pro or against, actual discussion is what this is supposed to be about.

Having a right to express viewpoints is one thing, downright insulting developers in attempt to derail a thread is another. He can give his ideas that promote the conversation, but instead he's just trying to rile jimmys so he can say feelings are the reason why it's derailing.

Imo, deaths should be penalized. That's what make DC content "easy" for most players. In most other MMO's, once a player die, he is 25-75% their full strength

Interesting, I've played a few other games too, and we didn't have that. Though in those games, you had to either use a skill to revive or try to retrieve your dropped items. Warframe used to have a death counter and you actually had to pay to revive after the counter was used up. They changed that for the better.

No-one is insulting developers here. You're taking offence on behalf of others over what you perceive is being said.

I would like to think (again this being a forum where we can discuss stuff like this and give constructive feedback) that we can acknowledge certain elements of elite raid content, and what would happen if a crucial part of it was taken away. I would also like to think that if these devs are reading this thread that they are taking notes and putting everyone's feedback into consideration - whether they agree or not with whichever side is another matter.

At the end of the day the ball is in the developer's court. You and me are players with opinions who don't work for DI or the dev team. We also have to be careful what we wish for as removing death rally limits for elite content will in all likelihood render 80% of current elite content far easier than it currently is - and there are no promises future episodes will reward us with more fun/tricky mechanics.

Certain raids like *PCE, FIE, MME, FGSE, DWFE, GOME, might maintain their difficulty. Most other elite content will be barely different from their regular versions.

*You are welcome to research who worked on these particular elite raids as you might notice a pattern

Absolutely, I agree with you a 100%. As that is part of the discussion, but that wasn't what was happening and it should not be included in this conversation.

It's great that he can depend on legauemates to come defend him on the forums and be a hypocrite about derailing his own thread If only there wasn't multiple videos already posted of me calling for not only phase dodge but the entire superspeed movement tree to be adjusted because of its advantages over the others. Or one could point out you only have a 3 second window to use phase dodge effectively or you miss the damage prevention window and just die. But wait its ok if you die because your leaguemate wants to remove the only thing keeping players paying attention to the "random" one shots he claims exist. Much friendlier if you could just infinitely pick up players who ignore mechanics right?

1.) I'm pretty sure petitioning is a violation of forum rules and can get you in trouble.

2.) I think it's fine the way it is. Elite is supposed to be ELITE and HARD. The whole point is that you need to be on your A game. You need to know where to be and when to be there and what to avoid and when. 98% (my estimate) of the random deaths you are talking about are avoidable, and almost always happen (in my experience) because people aren't paying attention or they aren't where they need to be. For Example: Fire and Brimsone Elite. A VERY common Death was Lex Luthor's missile attack. I can't count how many times people died from that, and it's EASILY avoidable. All you have to do is pay attention to Lex. If he looks your way MOVE. I died from that maybe 1 time in at least 20 runs.
All you have to do is pay attention and be aware of your surroundings.

I wasn't setting up a "petition", but advocating a discussion about if it was necessary. There is no Change.org or the like.

I can't edit the original post to fix the word for a different one, so if Mepps wants to, he can alter it to his pleasure.

Don’t keep up with what you say in general, but a 3 second reaction time? I think that’s a generous estimate (more like 1.5), but it just goes to what I said. Robot players. This is what’s being catered to on those types of “mechanics” with death limits. Picking up people? That’s humans playing a game as they have...what is it...10 seconds to pay attention, wait for opportunities and succeed in the task. Pick ups are impromptu strategy different in every situation - not just press phase dodge button before 1.5 seconds expire.

In any case, my responses here are really just having fun with this conversation.

This is DCUO. NO FUN ALLOWED!