SERIOUS problem with elite content in this game

Discussion in 'Gotham City (General Gameplay)' started by NotMeMaybe, Sep 16, 2021.

  1. Proxystar #Perception

    And there will still be people unhappy that it doesn't pose a challenge, no matter how hard you make something, until it gets to a point where your target audience is so small the efforts put in to designing and making the content is a complete waste of time and resources.
    • Like x 1
  2. OnlyNomad The One Above All

    At some point they just gotta go play the Souls game.
    • Like x 1
  3. Ryazan Dedicated Player

    Even the Souls games is not enough for some. There are people who do no level up runs in those, or the no lamp run in Bloodborne, it's fun. Also, speedrunners. :)

    Even if the game was not hard enough for some, those people found their own way of adding more challenge to the game themselves.
    • Like x 2
  4. Random Mind Dedicated Player


    I read very well thank you, though I admit I did skip several posts, so I must have missed the part where you said you did it with random people. To be fair your idea of random groups and mine are totally different. Your random groups are still elite groups even if they aren't your leaguemates, they probably have similar amounts of SP, max artifacts and cookie cutter builds. I can tell you if you ran an elite raid with a group that wasn't experienced in elite raids, didn't have mics, had lower SP and had artifacts that were not maxed, it wouldn't go as smooth. So just because you say you run with random groups, it is not the same queueing up for an elite raid and running it with the not-so-elite crowd.

    Don't get me wrong, I am not saying the content can't be done that fast by elite groups, I'm just saying that the elite content is not run that fast by everyone. I am also only suggesting ways to make the easy content harder, but you want no part of that, so do want to play harder content or not? Play the elite raid with no healers and see how easy it is, play with no tanks and see how far you go. The are a variety of ways to make the elite raid more challenging, it is your choice if you want to or not.
  5. OnlyNomad The One Above All


    Alright, let me see. Start a fire in your home, get undressed, start a new playthrough of a Souls game on the hardest difficulty with no level up and speed run it before you burn and die.

    Only solution to this problem. :p
  6. TKMcClone Steadfast Player

    The mechanics that I like the most involve the secondary NPCs in a boss fight. Where you have an NPC that heals the boss or has a one shot attack targeting a tank. Some of the best feats are built around controlling the battlefield. I think that feats are the best way to enhance elite content.

    Perhaps they could start adding additional rewards for completing raids in a certain way, Epic Odyssey in Dox or Hat trick in Happiness Home for example. Optional No Death raids are another option, if anyone dies, much less loot. If no one dies more loot than regular elite.
  7. Tiffany6223 Loyal Player

    Following mechanics is one thing, but I enjoy coming up with strategies to win. To me it's just fun when everybody is working as a team and you know you have people who have your back.
    • Like x 3
  8. NotMeMaybe Active Player

    I stopped reading @ "i'm a solo player" don't even want to read what you said.

    If you are solo player why do you care if some ppl like me want an endgame where people have to think of what they are doing during a Raid, play as a team, communicate (if on mic), use all the group buffs and group tools the game has to offer, position in a smart way with the group, or position properly as a tank etc.

    I don't want to faceroll content without thinking of what i'm doing and complete raids even if i forgot to turn my screen on like in normal difficulty.

    Endgame is meant to be the content you play when your character is max level, eventually with high artefacts, max augments, with other people that are aswell experienced in the game.

    I don't want to kill bosses in 45 sec and noone wants that, there is normal difficulty for this.
  9. Random Mind Dedicated Player


    Honestly I don't care about what you want. I'm sorry that the elite content is not hard enough for you and all the elite elites but seriously, stop smelling your own farts and look around. DCUO is bigger than you and the elites you roll with.

    I have no problem with people requesting things from the devs and if you had simply asked for a new difficulty level, you probably wouldn't have heard a peep out of me. But deciding that the elite content is in SERIOUS trouble because you and your mates find it too easy is pretty arrogant and got under my skin. Not because your opinion matters to me, nor because I plan to play elite raids, but because that you seem to think you speak for all of us. What about the people that are okay with the elite difficulty or maybe even find too hard? Should the devs add a new difficulty that is harder than normal, but not as hard as elite? Maybe the devs should add a hundred levels of difficulty, so everyone can have their own level of difficulty.

    But the main thing that bothers me is your dismissal of finding your own challenges. People aren't saying to change out artifacts, lower your stat points and remove mods to make you mad, but to offer you suggestions to make the elite content harder. Why is that so hard to grasp? Do you want the elite content to be harder or not? You could run the content with just DPSes, and see if you could complete the raid without switching to support roles. Or, if you have it in you, you could also build another character and get them to endgame, if playing with your elite content smasher character isn't providing you with enough of a challenge. I guarantee you that a 341 CR Sorcery DPS with 79 SP and 100 lvl artifacts won't be able to blitz through elite content, unless you're carried.

    If you only want to play with the characters that steamroll elite content and only want to play with similar players as you, then the issue is you, not the game, because the challenges are out there, if you want them.
    • Like x 1
  10. Aduzar Light Dedicated Player

    ou're a bit contradictory on this point, you feel that the elite level is not hard enough for "you", but at the same time, you ask that the devs take care of "all customers", but you want hardcore content, for a minority of unsatisfied players. Doesn't the fact that the game already has "normal" and "elite" content already make it "take care of all customers"?

    Don't forget that this game attracts players of all ages and that the game must be adapted to that, DCUO is not really a game like other MMORPGs and if the current level doesn't suit you, maybe the game is not made for you ;)
    • Like x 2
  11. NotMeMaybe Active Player

    Game isn't made for me? Don't we have normal raids for casual players? Why do they all feel to play some content that is meant to be challenging but yet refuse to follow tactics and don't accept that they can die?
    Do you have numbers saying that we are a minority to play elite Raids and want them harder?
    Do you know how many end-game players are leaving and sell their account everyday and over the years?
    Have you played some other MMO?
    You know some players are playing since 10 years and they want something to challenge them?
    You know end-game is important in games like DCUO?
    • Like x 1
  12. xxHELLSTROKExx Loyal Player

    Quoting you but responding to all:

    We don't have numbers to verify either sides claims. Event level is way too easy. Normal level is easy. The elites are easy. All opinions. But we can have opinions. We can ask for harder elite content but until normal is made a bit harder, players are stuck somewhere between normal and elite, not getting a challenge in normal yet getting too much of a challenge in elite. So that's where different levels of elite come in and they are working on it. So I still don't understand all the whining. Yes, we want harder. But all players want something just a bit different than someone else.

    So again, when test comes out, help test. Find the balance. Stage 1 should be easy to the elites because it should just be a step up from normal. It's where players that squash normal in pug groups go. Stage 2 should be where those same players go once they've made a few friends/ mastered stage 1. Stage 3 should be reminiscent of fgse. Stage 4 should be beaten in test by the best players only in mixed gear and 160+ range artis. Stage 5 should be sm rd 28-30, not beaten on test or barely beaten by a group of all 200 artis/ maxed everything. Not going to be easy to get that but the more testers (aka everyone wanting more difficulty) the easier it will be to implement. But all this means that normal has to get harder to retain some players that are finding it too easy but aren't elite capable yet.

    Need to edit this: the rewards can not be extra special. Again, increased drop chances, slight increase to payout. Maybe increased renown. That's it. We get the challenge we want, no need to get extra special whatever. Stop being greedy, either enjoy the challenge or don't.
    • Like x 5
  13. farm3rb0b Committed Player

    In my opinion, the way the game is currently designed and the content release sequence/expectations are a huge reason as to why Elites are lackluster.

    The Save the Universe episode, especially the Batman set, is a bad example to set your expectations on, but might be good to explain what I mean. Family Reunion was part of Origin Crisis. That came out with two iconic solos, two open world 4-man operations, and two raids. The idea was you could do the solos when it dropped (iconic character meant undergearing didn't hurt so much), use the ops to gear up, and progress further through the number of bosses you could keep out in Paradox. The entire DLC was developed in the mindset that you'd progress through difficulty as you and your group were able. In other words, Family Reunion was never meant to be elite. It was meant to progress the story and give you a way to gear for the raid. At least, that was my understanding of it way back when.

    In Origin Crisis, Epic Odyssey was the Elite raid. Yes it was a specific way to run one particular raid, but that could be considered the elite version of that DLC. You learned boss mechanics in the tunnels, then subsequently increased the number you didn't close until you had the damage and healing to be able to do them all in the center room in order.

    Now, in order to make some things elite, they just ramp up health pools and increase damage. Oh, and they add the 2 death max per person - which has never determined how elite a group is. I've always thought a group that could continuously recover and pick each other up showed strength. But...that's always been something our league's prioritized, pickups > pew pew.

    In my opinion, in order for elite content to be good, it needs to have the mechanics designed for that. Maybe they need to go the route they did in Flashpoint where they had the console at the beginning to choose your own adventure. Where they use the same map/assets to alleviate some dev time and introduce mechanics in differing sequences/magnitude as you progress, allowing groups to inch their way toward the hardest difficulty as they're able. But taking something they designed for the entire player base and then adding a modifier to make things super owwie and calling that elite? I've never been a fan.
    • Like x 3
  14. Alpha Maximum Well-Known Player


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  15. El El Committed Player

    Problem with this is people have life outside dcuo.
    Its never going to be enough for certain people.
    If they want a challenge its fine but I don't think people should get extra feats over it or better rewards.
    Unless its a awesome style or base items.
    Zero feats just like survival mode is good solutions for these type of players.Example only Reason i finished the survival mode last time was for the zeus back.They can put special items like that in the mire challenging elite stuff
    • Like x 1
  16. BumblingB I got better.

    I actually agree with your post on that. I think a lot of people don't quite understand how they got to the point we are at. Elite content was added during AF2, with Throne of the Dead and was continued to be added in Monthly content, which was really padding to make players want to play the worst time period of the game. Throne Elite WAS designed to be harder and required a thinking out of the box. Namely, a 3rd tank and players having the ability to pick their roles to keep themselves alive. It had a lot of thought to it. In the case of ILe, FRe, and ISe, they were all designed to be normal, with no added difficulty to it.

    Now, that is to say, what can we consider elite? This thread alone has a wide range of perceived level of difficulty they say is "elite".

    Also, the 1 death addition, couldn't agree with you more. Survival Mode is way more "elite" than "elite" raids. I feel that the dev that decided the death counter was just fed up with seeing streams of players like Odyssey having almost a wipe, but recover by getting the pickups. You know, even my league is really good at pickups. But, you can't do a lot with players that get the short end of the RNGesus' wrath. Die, get up and immediately get smacked again. Not sure if there is skill to that. (And don't get me started on Lex's cheap shot out of cutscene. Remember when we were testing the alerts and Spytle made fun of me for getting hit by him and dying? Yeah, I'm having flashbacks to that, yesterday in FRe. No death's until that cheap shot. EFF YOU LEX! EFF YOU!)
    • Like x 3
  17. Magnificent Loyal Player


    This goes toward my post in another thread where I mentioned the problem with InnerE being that the primary method they seemed to buff the ARC fight was to just increase the health, defense and damage of all the mobs in there (trash spawns in the fight were hitting our non-tanks for over 200k per hit from just their basic melee abilities). You can tweak stats to a certain point but when people are using specific things like the Eye of Gemini meta or hot-swapping Artifacts or using debris on the floor to hold the ARC in place, craft the extra challenge to be a counter to those specific issues rather than just upping the stats more.

    For example, have something like the ARC absorbing SC for 10 seconds after any SC is hit or put a dynamic penalty into the fight which lowers the damage of players in DPS role by 10% for each player in combat running in DPS stance beyond 4 (so 5 DPS would be a 10% penalty, 6 would be 20%, etc), lock arts into the inventory while a player is in combat, remove restrictive debris (or at least remove the collision aspect), etc.

    Elite runs should be more about countering mechanics to win a given boss fight than just overwhelming it with massive DPS, especially when that DPS comes from methods the content wasn't designed to compensate for.
    • Like x 1
  18. zNot Loyal Player

    I personally dont rate feats that high the rewards can be anything else that would make it worth it
    • Like x 1
  19. 9001BPM Steadfast Player

    Hold on. You died because the content is broken and a developer made fun of you?! Classy.
  20. BumblingB I got better.

    LOL Spytle was a character, to say the least. His direction of the game kind of hurt a lot of the development and players, but his attitude to the players was quite enjoyable. I really liked his dynamic with Mepps, when they did live streams together.

    With that said, I was with Odyssey during the testing of OC. Spytle watched us play, I can't remember if it was a live stream or a youtube video, but he did a reaction to it. When I ended up dying there, he said something along the lines of "That's fitting." Because I play a character based off of Blue Beetle, who died in the comics by a rich villain. I had no hard feelings there, just with elite content, that counts for your one death.
    • Like x 1