Episode 41: Week 1

Discussion in 'Announcements' started by Panderus, Sep 2, 2021.

  1. Reinheld Devil's Advocate

    Except he doesn't. If the adjustment is on 'expected' completion time vs 'actual' completion time, it's not subjective. If they look at what it would take with an average group (and I'd guess there are logs of these number) they should be able to tell a 'long' raid from a 'short' raid. Examples of 'long' raids to me are things like Nexus, BBS, Bombshell, FGS, MoM, FOS1 and 2, Sub construct, Inner, Outer, Khandaq. Lots of hallways and adds, Bosses with protective or regenerative mechanics that must be followed, and some higher chance of failure in a less than average group. Short raids would be (no surprise) FOS3, DD, HH, Prime, COU, GOM, Lockdown. Smaller maps, easier bosses (assuming mechanics are followed), and less chance of failure just by sheer difficulty. A group, good or bad, assuming they can finish either raid, will finish a short one faster than a long. HH is faster than FOS1 or 2...even if FOS1 might be easier fights...COU is faster than FGS...even though Trigon is a PITA and there are 3 bosses to deal with.

    Granted any of these can become a shoot show, but assuming most groups don't wipe 100 times, or fall apart, they are generally 'short'. I can see that they might want to change payouts...either more for longer ones (to make the grind seem more worth it) or less for shorter ones (to make spam less attractive vs running the longer raid). It won't really cut down on spamming, and probably won't drive a lot of traffic to a longer raid, but I know if I'm skipping out of Omni pops and one comes up that's a bit longer, but pays 20% more than FOS3, I might not be as quick to cancel (assuming I'm doing any Omni...right now, that remains to be seen).

    And yes, newbies could see this as a penalty, but I thought all these changes were so they can learn....so learn them up already. All the changes were supposed to 'right the ship'....the change to add source back into end game should filter out some of the detractors, leaving most of the people queuing up the ones who wanted the challenge and opportunity to grow the noobs... I'd say 'Challenge accepted!' and dive in if I were them...but I wasn't.
    • Like x 2
  2. Doctor Nova Devoted Player

    TY. gg.

    TLDR/
    • Identify and address content outliers based on feedback and data
    • Investigate adjusting content and/or rewards based on expected completion time
    Will there be any adjustments to weekly numbered *do this 400 times* missions? or maintained and same marks for the weekly?

    I went into all prior tiered content maps to find daily and weekly missions. I've only done the weekly ones for marks. CC has dailies for marks, BOP has dailies for marks. Not all have dailies for marks. Some of the do 10 daily missions for NPC to get 1 mark seems a bit low. I am doing the ones, do 5 daily missions for NPC to get a mark. begrudgingly doing them again, after having done it so long ago when it was the top dlc to earn marks. Doing that again, not so much fun. Although it is different from doing the current 3 DLC dailies. For newer players, I think this will help diversify their tasks. It's beginner style quests, but it's a NPC filled environment (which looks great). /shakefis@CR advancement of newbs. I've got no idea how a new player would handle NPCs. I use one character. Gave up alts years ago.

    Meanwhile, Here is a Gold Bar. When you address PvP. Use the random map generation of Warframe/Diablo. Segments of a themed environment randomly per match generated. Please kick DX 9 out of all use before making the Action game mechanics MMO that is DCUO different from when i played the beta on ps3 and an old pc. I have new hardware and it should probably should perform better than it did in 2011 that was being made for years before launch, obviously. /glare at targeting of items when ANY enemy NPC is in range? It should take a hard direct look from my character at an object to consider targeting an object in any fight scenario. Plus, the faint visual that is Exobytes on the street and from the aura produced when you smash a Heal barrel. Why is those so hard to see?? the map doesn't have to be big, with too many rooms, just have them assemble from a few blocks of environment surrounding a main theme room, or something to that extent. PVP mode specific themes. TDM, DM, CTF, I forgot what pvp modes the game includes. /wary

    Is it a PSN+PC thang? One has fees and the other has no QC department? no wait, they're the same. [IMG]

    I suspect that other game systems are on the to-do list and will be revamped in time. Good luck. /wary@featsmenu
  3. RTX Well-Known Player

    First of all, appreciate you taking players feedback, but let´s stay with logic here.

    1. Instances never been balanced when it comes to timings.
    2. In past it didnt been a problem since every instance was loot locked.
    3. To fix this there is a simple method which should overall get the most instances included, depending on some specific mechanics.
    4. Look at the instance environment size (walk way) and count the amount of enemys, that way you can calculate the difference in how fast those instances will be finished compared to each other. (Cause that will be the "fight-time" if not possible to skip)
    5. You can calculate it that way since enemys have the same level per tier, plus all players getting clamped to same stats (maxed)
    6. If you wanna have atleast 95% same timings you would have to add up enemys Health/Defense (Boss, Add waves) for each instance and calculate the difference

    Note, since you´re changing the instances enemys level (HP, Damage output etc) It will going to feel like harder tiers compared to big size environment instances.

    The same could have been done with instance individual clamped stats.

    At the end that way you will have it alot quicker and most importantly mathematicly true, and not opinion based.
    Depends on what you want it to become!
  4. Apollonia Dedicated Player

    I think it's great that you've made the changes you are; like putting source marks back into all content. Everyone understands how you want to incentivize earlier content. So, you could add double marks or something to help with that, and no one would be upset. And I think it's great you are committing to being responsive related to the rest also, but I don't believe you'll be able to sell stats clamping. We'll see in a few weeks of course but I don't believe you can.

    Most of us don't feel really restricted in difficulty by the clamp outside of outlier content like you mentioned. Ultimately the biggest complaint about clamping isn't really first hand difficulty, it's about extended periods of time playing old content when running with newer players still, but it's also about the fact that you guys took a decade of progress from players that we earned, and that for that decade the dev team has specifically told its players they could access all content eventually by outgearing it. Players gauged their time over years understanding that their membership revenue funded elite content they could get into later and complete. Now bc of clamping, you're actually removing a layer of content a lot of existing players subsidized and now won't be able to play [complete?] at level ever.

    We have a multigenerational family playing in our league and the grandparents both play with us -- they're great players and MMO vets, but they can't handle the bleeding edge difficulty elite content at level demands. They have to rely on outgearing the content over time to play it with us. I'm not saying they'll leave if they can't play this, but it means less players to play with for the rest of us in our league. And I'm sure *some* people will leave over this. And because the Dev team set a level of expectation for this kind of progression over a decade, taking it away now is a betrayal and you've lost the trust of a lot of players going forward. And I do believe it's fair at this point.

    This also raises the question about how much of future dev resources should be spent on elite content since it's not intended for the bulk of players anymore. I know I'd rather see that time spent on systems and features that will draw players in instead *cough* powersets *cough* graphics engine update *cough*.

    I don't know for sure but the benefits of this change seem to be more about something else that's being danced around rather than benefit the players and I suspect other players see it the same too. Otherwise the benefits this would have to players could be achieved in other ways than clamping and we'd be exploring those options instead by now. So, if you got transparent with us and said "hey look we know this sucks but we need to scale back the team that does this work over the coming years and we don't have a choice" (or whatever the real reason is) we couldn't argue with that no matter how much we hate it. But if you tell us this is for us, but ignore all the other alternatives that would be better for the players than this is, you're going to lose people. So, I can't be sure what the truth is here, but I hope you consider this anyhow.
    • Like x 1
  5. Illumin411 Loyal Player

    I pretty much agree with all that. Admittedly, because it was on my mind from the post I had made just before that, I focused on the part of his post that highlighted really long completion times as an issue. Because ultimately, if that was address in a significant way, the gap between expected completion times and actual completion times would potentially be narrowed to being negligible in the context of fairly rewarding players for their time and efforts.
    • Like x 1
  6. Yochanan32 Well-Known Player

    Mepps and Panderus,

    First on the positive side. I really like the solo and duos in Save the Universe and Omnibus. The alerts and raids I stay away from because of dealing with impatient people. On one hand I was in an alert and it was rough at first be we learned to work with each other and that was great. The other Alert was I believe on a elite setting because I was constantly dying and so no communications and eventually got removed. This last experience was why I steer away from Alert and raids.

    What I would like to see is more selectability. I am getting pretty tired of Science Spire. Let use select a mission or at least do some rotation. I thought it would reset on Thursday reset but still there.

    The early games had more solo content and pugging duos was fine. The focus on Raids and Elite is not something I am interested in because of players not content. There are some things you can't fix.

    I think 41 is a good attempt toi make all content accessible and fun again. Good job to you and the developers.
  7. Neb153 Level 30

    This addresses all of my issues with the update so overall I'm pleased. I did a lot of Omnibus content last week and it definitely felt that our power could be boosted somewhat while still not turning us into outright gods, some content just ended up feeling too difficult while not having the health security you do in Legends PVE for example.
  8. DrDogg New Player

    I appreciate the response, and I don't mean any offense by this, but I really think you missed the point of everything I said. That may have been my fault so let me try to explain a bit better.
    1. Nth Metal drops have absolutely changed. We get a larger quantity of Nth Metal and lower overall XP. I've leveled a number of artifacts during my time with the game and I would be shocked to find nothing has changed about Nth Metal XP.

    2. I understand that CR didn't go up by the same amount as a normal episode. It doesn't relieve the frustration or change the fact that getting a 280 as almost every drop is unfulfilling. I can't even just select the highest color of the item I need. I have to look and get frustrated as I see 280 over and over again, or see that even at level, blues are below Elite from the previous content.

    3. Awesome, thank you!

    4. I understand that I can go buy the yellow or Elite Gear. I can do that in every recent episode. Still doesn't change the fact that it doesn't feel like I'm progressing if the main way for me to move up in CR is by spending marks on vendor gear. I'm sure you see how the progression is different and much slower compared to previous episodes. That's the issue.

    5. Yes, that is what I stated in my original comment, and that's my issue. It's not just the most recent content. It is extremely difficult to get through a Raid from Ep37 with half your squad being a PUG. If there were better restrictions on who can enter Elite Raids, then people would have more confidence in a PUG queue and you wouldn't be forced to find a good league just to run that content.

      I get that the most recent Elite Raid should be limited to the top leagues, but the elite raid from four episodes past should be the same way? Is that really how you guys want the Elite Raid system to work?
    1. I'm in a LG. I don't want to have to join another one just to run Elite Raids from four episodes past.
    2. ^^
    3. Why would I need to be carried? I'm perfectly capable, especially when compared to most of the players I've encountered on the server. I just can't run Elite Raids with four good players and four inexperienced players. If it was only the most recent content, I'd understand, but you can't even run BoP Elite Raids with half your group being a PUG.
    4. Not to boast, but I'm better than 99% of the players I encounter, which is the only benchmark I really have to go on. When I'm on dps, my LG is always at the top of boards, and when I'm healing people rarely die unless they get hit with a one-shot.

      I've also been playing MMOs for decades, most of which I find more difficult to play than DCUO (no offense). If you think you can carry an Ep41 Elite Raid with only four decent players, I'd love to see you do it. My group of four can do the Elite Alert with no real issues. so we're not slouches.
  9. 9001BPM Steadfast Player

    I’ll still be in Atlantis :D
    • Like x 2
  10. NotHappy Active Player


    so if I don't have a google account I must make one or not have my input in the survey?

    ********
    • Like x 1
  11. Yvtq8k3n The 7 Well-Known Player

    1. Well, that's all right:)
    2. Not sure if you Pc or PSN, but again why not try and find a few Discord DCUO groups, like I said a some vets hangout there.
    3. I think you can, here a list to prove:
    4 MAN | COUE:
    4 MAN | SSFE:
    4 MAN | MachE:
    4 MAN | FIE:
    4 MAN | SGe:
    (Just a few)
    4. Some people may throw pitch forks, but burn doesn't matter. You may be the number one Pew Pew in all the world, but if you unable to adapt to your situation you are currently average. I would rather have a solid support then a player that is to focused in getting the numbers. If the group is failing maybe you could give the iniciative and explain the mechanics.
    Well I think dcuo can be really hard specially when you are tanking, in which you have to constantly keep your rotation, be aware of your surroundings, counter bosses, maneuver adds sometimes simultaneously with bosses, constantly lunging the worst boss ever made, etc.
    • Like x 3
  12. VariableFire Loyal Player

    Why are Duos and Alerts set to 1 and 3 respectively? Traditional? Pah, they used to be 2 and 5 respectively. If you want to grow your playerbase, which I think this update was supposed to be about, you need to stop trying to funnel people to raids all the time.
    • Like x 1
  13. 9001BPM Steadfast Player

    Agreed. I personally just think older content, even elites should allow a bit more leeway and margin for error than it did whenever it was first released.
  14. Lycan Nightshade Dedicated Player

    In its current form I will never run omnibus, i refuse to allow rng to dictate what I run ESPECIALLY clamped and for rewards that are lackluster. I cant figure out why the open worlds had to be clamped as well, older worlds are a ghost town (based on my experience, most of the open worlds older then wonderverse had only 1 phase and had 5 or less people in it) and its not exactly like they were over populated before clamp.
    • Like x 3
  15. timetrapper52 Well-Known Player

    You still have custom play to choose what you want and you can form your own group for that

    As for open worlds I think its a good thing for bounties to be a challenge but they need to rework there LFG System to be a Interface that is categorized where players can create there groups and others will see what its for and they can tackle certain things with ease as a group making the game as a whole more social
    • Like x 1
  16. BaelinFishman Well-Known Player

    My point still stands. It shouldn't be based on any completion time expected or actual and that was my main point. The SMs awarded should be standardized for all types of content regardless of time. So like he said how they would be awarded in latest content, carry that over to omnibus as well.
  17. RarestRex New Player

    Now this is the game DCUO I signed up for.

    Keep it up boys.

    I think this game can recover after all. Two years ago I would have said this game is hopeless.
  18. Lycan Nightshade Dedicated Player

    on the first point I am aware of that and i already use custom, but it doesnt count towards Omnibus, that you have to use the quickplay for and im not doing it, perhaps i didnt make that clear in which case thats on me.

    I would have to argue that with the exception of maybe the first week of a dlc that bounties are not challenging, they just take too long because of the high health they have, but OW isnt just bounties either as im sure you know, and yes we get rewards from daily and weekly stuff (in most cases) but they all have a loot lock, so it just doesnt make sense to me to clamp it, and just an extra opinion on this but unclamping the open world would 1) help populate open worlds with those who just despise the clamp and 2) offer a decent comprimise(sp) on the whole clamp to begin with.

    totally agree btw on lfg (well both mail and chat systems period) need some updates too.
  19. EconoKnight XIII Legion

    I mean, it sounds good. But I feel like this:

    [IMG]

    At least from my perspective, things were balanced pretty well before ep 41. I didn’t play 10 year old content (still don’t want to now); but I did enjoy having the current content plus that conveyor belt of the hardest content from two or more years ago that would then enter a realm of playability through growth. Nothing one-shotted by my group or even especially easy; it was a re-visit to two or more year old content presented with a greater challenge than regular content had on release.

    I’m not saying anything new here. I said this before episode 41 went live. I would have probably been happy if the clamp just started at Metal 1.

    So now after the ep 41 release, you bring me this nice pie to make up for things; but I still know you’re not going to listen. You’re going to listen to people with spreadsheets and tricks and exploits and personal motives to be “the best”. I’ll just end up with the pie pushed in my face.
    • Like x 3
  20. spikeat Well-Known Player

    I personally don't farm it as I've already amass a large quantity of source marks, but you will get an uproar if you adjust FOS3 to give less than 10 marks.