The "GET GUD AT THE GAME" Crowd:

I didn't tell you what you wanted, I actually asked you what you wanted. Re-read my post, or here let me re quote it.

Putting to one side the emotional knee jerk reaction of your first sentence, It would appear to me you want to "put it back where it previously was, but not just where it previously was, it will be put it back where it previously was and you will give me the rewards you're now giving me" does that about sum up your attitude?

Alrighty then, now that we've established that, let me point out the rather silly aspects of your logic and post.

You say you want to progress past content you mastered 8 years ago? Sure, but does that give you the right to obliterate it so that the person coming behind you, gets absolutely no chance to master it themselves?

You say you don't need to be at the same level of having to learn the information when you first took the test... well you aren't.. again there's no clamped content that feels the same as when it was at level, so this assertion that a few of you keep holding that it is, is simply demonstrably false.

The content wasn't trivialized because they removed the rewards, the content was trivialized because people one shot the bosses, ignored mechanics and on some occassions downright broke the instances through being too powerful, fully rewarding people for playing like that could only be described as asinine.

Oh and here's the kicker for you people that actually think this way anyway, if the devs have a plan in place for how long they want us to take to grind something let's say it's 700 marks and they've worked out on average it will take 24 hours of play to get that, what do you think will happen if they allowed you to play like you previously could and get reward. If you haven't realized the folly and futility of your position yet by yourself, I'll tell you... That's right THE EQUATION WILL CHANGE.

The reward will now cost 2,500 marks for example, why? Because the devs know it will take you on average 24 hours of play to get the reward, but in that state the game will continue to be worse off, no one will be learning anything and the instances will continue to be broken, funny some people go on about Dimensional Ink's quality control but are all but advocating to retain the full previous power, which was the direct cause of some bugs.

This is the point it keeps coming back to, some of you are "playing with your feelings, rather than playing with your brains"...

For vets of dcuo being forced to run old content in OmNiBuS & for Source Marks is gamebreaking.

A lot of us have no desire to rerun old content we ground to a pulp for years, with this update to get Source Marks, which everyone needs to progress their toons, we are forced to now. That equates to vets at best kicking out new players from instances & at worst canceling their subs.

I'm a 10year+ vet and I don't feel it's "gamebreaking", so it's not all vets.

It's "game changing", but it's not "gamebreaking".

I explained this as well in an earlier post, I'm not trying to make you like it, I don't actually really care if you like it, but it does mean you're going to have to do it and that's the nature of a video game.

Let's say for arguments sake as well, I hate a new DLC, I just hate it with a passion. I hate the content, I hate the styles, I hate the story, I just hate it.

I don't want to collect the style, but I still want the 50pt feat attributed to that style, however, if I want that feat, I have no choice, the game has "forced" me to run something I dislike.

It happens all the time in games, its nothing new.

At least with making all of the game more relevant to me I'm more likely to find something I'll enjoy going back to

The goal of the update was to make everyone feel equal. I don't agree with it but it is what it is. They are trying to grow the base so the game stays in business. The last thing we all want is a 'Going out of Business' message from the Devs.

Thx for your feedback. I get you point here’s the difference for me & a lot of (not all) vets anyway Source Marks & rehashed content, to advance your toon you need them & how do you get them, grind the same dlc content & instances that you have already ground into oblivion, that’s not fun & it’s the entire game, not one dlc.

Why is using LFG so difficult for players who want to run with toons their own CR & skill level? That solves the problem of new players being grouped up with vets that are at higher levels.

No. This is not how to do that. You don't grow the base by killing off your existing players. Anyone saying this is about "growing the base" fundamentally misunderstands the reason for this change.

There is not a high amount of new players coming into the game and leaving because "tHe gAmE iS tOo eAsY"' so it needs stats clamping to make everything harder. If that was what they thought, and the goal, the clamping would have been much more extreme btw. Those players are leaving because the game does not offer players what they're looking for when they start playing a Superhero game.

If they really wanted to grow the base they'd be adding content and features the base wants. Powersets, Movement types, new features, fixing pvp, etc. Stats clamping is a way to address power creep and simplify the work of balancing over time -- it means they don't need as many people maintain it all and can slowly wind down the product over the coming years more easily. It's a business decision and you as a player do not benefit from it in any way that I can think of. It's ultimately a long term cost saving measure.

No it doesn't mean people have to do it at all. Players can and will leave. That's really why the pro-clamp crowd is so vitriolic towards the anti-clamp crowd. Because they know those people can and will leave instead of sucking it up and playing even tho they hate it. That's exactly what makes it gamereaking; it's a problem so extreme that it prevents or discourages play.

This is the next big DCUO mass exodus event happening in real time. That's what we're seeing here. The more hostile the game and its community is to the bulk of its casual playerbase, the more likely they are to move on. And if the casuals leave, the game wraps up.

It comes back to that point I just raised though, the game couldn't stay the way that it was, players were breaking instances if and when they chose to go back in to them, sometimes even for the laughs.

Everything outside of relevancy was dead because the game encouraged nothing be done outside of the most recent 3 episodes, if it even stretched that far.

the reality is, the game was limping along on life support, it needed this shake up, we all deep down know it, whether we like the changes or not.

The games population was stagnant, drifting from DLC to DLC, you must have observed that, I don't want to sound insulting but i'm not sure anyone could've been entirely oblivious to it.

I used to take exactly the same position as you, by the way, "lowbies can use LFG, form their own group", the reality is they weren't not only because LFG was turned off by default, but because they simply wouldn't do it. the game and the community within it, did nothing but encourage them to skip everything entirely and go straight to the last 3 episodes to play with their friends.

That's exactly why there's people having so much trouble in some of this content, they're DLC skippers amongst some players of course who are simply clueless.

They've literally never stepped foot in this content and had to deal with the mechanics, they're still trying to "pew pew pew" it and they're failing and then losing their **** about it.

In terms of the source marks themselves, it's actually really not that daunting, set a goal, know what you want, run what you need when you need and don't worry about it outside of that. It's almost like people feel there's some sort of race on to hit the source mark cap

Thx again for your reply. I appreciate it, it’s just not gonna do it for me, & many others, not worth the sub I just canceled which I kept active for a decade & definitely no longer worth my time. I’m not alone, my sentiments are very obvious & very common.

Players and will always come and go, possibly leave forever, there's a big video game market out there, it's pretty cut throat in terms of seeking our attention.

I've been in both the anti clamp and the pro clamp camp, I've run both sides of the argument, I know both sides of the argument intimately (take that how you will lol), if anything given that I'd say my opinion probably carries a bit more balanced weight than your own, no offense intended.

And honestly Apollonia, as a player, and at risk of sounding brutal, I really don't care if you leave.If people want feedback to be taken seriously do it without the stomping of feet and trying to strong arm the devs with financial threats, your points either have merit or they don't.

Do I like everything that this games does, of course not, do I even like all these recent changes, of course not, do I sit here and threaten to remove my sub because of it, of course not, because at the end of the day the game still offers enjoyment and still offers value for entertainment and the sub is economically valuable (again math doesn't lie).

I mean again Apollonia the game was already bleeding players prior to this change, it was limping, it couldn't keep doing it, it had to change, I'm sorry you don't like the changes, no matter what you say it's not going back to the way it was. Perhaps it'll get tweaked a bit, maybe it will, if not for your sake, but it's definitely not going back to the way it was, so you need to find some level of acceptance

Also for what it's worth and steam stats are only indicative, but if this is what's happening on steam, then it's probably also the general theme elsewhere.



If the stats are showing the developers an improvement in player numbers and that the player numbers continue to be retained then they're not going to change anything and in fact it'll indicate that irrespective of any negative feedback put forward by a minority on the forums the actual play data will speak louder.

Just throwing this out there.

Those will be more meaningful as time goes on.

Of course, let's see where it tracks from here. That's the thing, I might come across as an advocate for stat clamping and that's probably because I have no issues with it, but realistically it will either succeed or fail based on its merit, if it fails then one would assume more changes.

Someone informed and familiar with a topic's is always more valuable than someone who isn't like yourself. You can't Dunning-Kruger your way through the hard stuff. People always see through bs. I guess this is why we clash; you have no respect for me (which is fine) and similarly, you've demonstrated many times to me that you're not qualified to engage on the topics you inject your opinions and feelings into, so I can't take you seriously either.

I love that you default to assuming everyone is as self-involved as you are. So, no, this isn't about "me" and no one is stomping and making threats as you characterize it. It's capitalism pure and simple. The point of capitalism is that it reacts to the demands of the market and its consumer. If it doesn't, it's not capitalism and it fails. You default to making it about personality and emotions, but it's really just understanding the competitive market and industry and you shouldn't have to be told that it's just business.

And if you choose to ignore feedback because you don't like the tone of it, well, you live with the consequences--in this case the business does.

This is a predictable perspective from someone whose internalized the disposable society they grew up in. For many of us, we change the things that are broken. If we can't change them, we move on where possible. The difference between you and I is that you don't believe the game direction/something can be changed so you don't put in the work to even try, and are openly hostile to anyone who does. I've been here longer than you and 99.9% of the people playing and have had the opportunity to see how my feedback has changed the product directly over the years. If it hadn't I would agree with your cynical take and would have been gone years ago.

I've been saying the game has been bleeding out pop and limping into the future for years, so, you don't get credit for repeating stuff now that I've been saying for years already. And framing it as if I disagree with that is a goal post slide. The game can be bleeding out and still have, yet another, mass exodus event. And this is the next one if it's not reversed. Death by a thousand cuts; there's no single event/cause of DCUO's lack of commercial success.

As for the changes themselves, a lot of great feedback and alternatives have been offered. You may have missed it but the devs have seen it. So, if the changes aren't meaningfully reversed, and more equitable solutions explored, most of us *will accept it* and that looks like us moving on.

It's disingenuous and arguing in bad faith to even offer this up. The first week of a DLC is always high traffic as players check it out and decide. I said weeks ago while this was on test that we wouldn't know how it all goes for weeks after launch.

None of it really matters now, they've given you source marks back in end game, so I'm sure you can move along happily, I'll take the extra source marks too, only makes it easier for me

While this is absolutely true, in addition to monitoring and utilizing current to-date data, a well run company also needs to be on the lookout for potential signs of things to come. Many (if not most) actions and inactions won't see the full scope of the resulting impact until further down the line. Entire books and multi-semester courses are taught on predicting consumer behavior and responses so I won't attempt to even summarize that. I'm just reminding people that clear and sunny skies today have little impact on the weather next week and significantly less on the weather next month.

Once upon a time, there was a ship engineered and constructed with such titanic structural strength, integrity and fortitude that it was given the moniker "The Unsinkable..."

For sure, I was merely posting it just as a starting reference

I'm sensing a...


Jeeeez, talk about your Candor Central Tower...!

I assumed you knew and understood. That was less intended for you and more of a "for anyone who reads and cares about this public forum post but has yet to learn much about trend analysis, here is some additional context for your consideration" kind of response, lol.

Your central thesis of "we can't change anything so we should just accept it all and be miserable [or leave]" is falling down around you but *waves hands* "nothing to see here/none of this matters anymore"... right.

Let's normalize apologizing after you were wrong instead of being defensive and disrespectful because you're embarrassed.

Not all of us are miserable or were miserable Apollonia, not all of us here share your misery and therefore don't share your desire for a change. I'm not going to join your desire for change when I see it as entirely unnecessary.

If you think I'm embarassed then you'd be wrong, there was no right or wrong in this, there was just some people unhappy and some people not unhappy for whatever reason those particular individuals felt validated their view.

My view hasn't changed, I wasn't wrong in holding that view, you are certainly not owed an apology because I choose to have a different opinion than you - putting source marks back in end game is entirely unnecessary, but it's the developers preorgative entirely to put them back in there, it's no skin off my nose.

Of course that means you are no longer "forced" to even touch clamped content, it does however mean you're left suffering through loot locks and limited source mark grinding within the 'relevancy window' you're choosing to participate within and as long as you're prepared to accept the consequences of that choice, I couldn't care less.

However, if you start to suddenly look at those people running clamped and get annoyed they're "getting more than you", then I'm going to start to argue with you again.