Stat clamp is going to ruin DCUO- Please reconsider making this go live

What are you talking about? I had to learn everything on my own. Mostly from youtube videos I was never in a league or had anyone teach me anything about the game. New players have just as much if not more help now than I ever did. Wish I could have had the option to skip to max cr in a matter of seconds like new players can now a days.

Who said I had no idea of whats going on? No whats wrong with this game and the forums are karens like you who immediately hate on anything anyone suggests on the forums. People make posts to try to help a game they love playing for a long time and then here comes you, mr sunshine, to come spread your grumpy attitude on their thread. Offering nothing constructive, please explain to me how this is anything good for the game? Yeah nerfing your top stat players in old content is sooo good for this game.

That's not a compromise.

It is when (to the best of my knowledge) there were no plans to allow older content to be unclamped in the first place.

They've said pretty much from the start that the only unclamped content was going to be the latest three episodes. It wasn't cryptic or ambiguous. As far as I can tell leaving any older content unclamped was never on the table.

The plan from the start was to clamp all the older content but still allow players to feel powerful without allowing things like one-shot kills on bosses and mobs. That was the starting point, so the likelihood of any older content being left as is was extremely low to begin with, if there was any chance at all to begin with.

I feel like people's feelings on this update is going to depend on where they are at in the game. I can only speak for myself, the people in my league, and perhaps some others who are in similar situations. That being said, I'm looking forward to the stat clamp, it gives me and my league mates the chance to go back to old content and play through some of our favorite raids without blowing through it with our eyes closed. We've been at the point where we are looking for something fun and engaging to do because the game is currently stale. Progression isn't as important at the moment because new content isn't hard/we finished the DLC feats including Future Perfectionist so there isn't much of a need to progress our character as far as possible right now. For anyone who has actually tried it, the "take off gear, no arts, only spec a certain amount of sp" suggestion, knows it doesn't work.

I know my experience in the game is vastly different to the majority of players. Most don't have a dedicated group of good players so on top of the current content being frustrating for them, they'd also have the issue of going back into old content and struggling in there as well so I can see why there will be people who won't like it. I do think the average players skill will increase with this update, assuming they actually care to beat it, you learn more through trial and error than speed running through content. I also think it's not a total loss for people who hate that their progression is being effected, you learn mechanics you may have not been familiar with, many of which have returned in future DLCs and it gives you something engaging to do after you've finished dailies, weeklies etc for the current DLC.

People can go back and forth over this forever but it's just a matter of perspective

Right, the definition of a compromise is to meet someone halfway. I'm not asking for the clamping to be canceled as long as an option to turn it off is made available.

The dev starting position which has been clear from the start is that everything but the latest three episodes is going to be clamped.

Your starting position is wanting the option to turn off the clamping.

It's not compromising if you aren't willing to move from your starting position.

My actual starting position was to not have stat clamping at all. So yes, making it optional is a compromise.

That 'it doesn't work' is not accurate. Go into AnB. Get into the maze as a 300+ tank. Let the adds burn down the 3 tubes outside by the cogs that control the maze walls. What happens? Wipe? No....doubtful the maze would wipe you even after a hour or 2 of standing there. So how do you get out of this situation? You can't warp rally...you can't walk out. I know I remove my gear. Sometimes that's even not enough, and I remove my arits/augs. Then....I can wipe...why? Because I made myself weaker...weak enough for the room damage to knock me out. So there is a weakening impact to removing gear/artis/sp/augs. However I will say that having a set of Tier gear at the right level would be more accurate and evenly distributed, but no one is going to go buy old gear...although it would 100% do the job, assuming you also popped artis/augs out.

So, it isn't that it doesn't work. It's that no one wants to do it, which I will agree with. You'd have to have a pretty good group of friends who will either go grab some old Tier gear, or remove 5 or 6 pieces of gear to get their CR 'to level' then remove augs/artis and also go respec to put in limited SP just to provide you with a 'challenge' run. But it is doable, and it would work (I've done it). The difference? As of now it's a choice...soon it will not be. The other big difference? We'll get source after the change, we don't now. And that just goes to prove that no one who really wants this wants to do it for 'fun'....they also want it for the payout. Take away the payout and the only difference is it's 'easier' to do the same thing with a clamp that you could do today with a 8 man group of like minded people.

You want a challenge? Go drop that group of friends for a run with pugs any Elites, or work on some co-ordination feats with 7 other randoms. See about getting any ticks toward the 47 for 'right tool for the job' feat in NGN pugging in....even at level. What? That's a hassle? No kidding, but isn't that what makes it fun?

It doesn't work, I did it. At least removing the gear method doesn't, perhaps buying a set of gear from the Tier below or said Tier will be better, but I'd be jumping through a bunch of hoops like buying a set for every tier just to make something even remotely engaging. I went into old walk ins even below the minimum CR, Took off everything, gear, augs, arts, you name it, even went in with loadouts that made absolutely no sense. Specc'd 50-100 skill points and we still do too much damage, granted, I took a ton as well doing it that way, but it was still cake. Our current generator mods alone put us way above what is meant for said raids. Only way to get to do it is that I'd have to replace my generator mods and with how tedious it is to get 40.4s, that isn't feasible for me especially since I'd still need them to run whatever the CR relevant raid is out at the time. Maybe it'll work for raids that are around T7 or so, give or take a Tier, but for Inner Sanctum/FOS/Gates/Prime/Nexus it doesn't. While true, I could go pug stuff, but I shouldn't have to do that every single time I want a challenge. I can go in any of the raids from the last 3 DLCs with a pug group and struggle without having to handicap my toon.

The burden of making the game engaging or difficult shouldn't fall on us. Even for things that are supposed to be hard, like SM, the most relevant ones to today's version of the game were **** shows. S1 was filled with tanks lunge spamming and S2 was even worse because the devs idea of fixing the lunge spam was removing your immunity during a lunge so what did players do to compensate for that? Grey range tanking became a thing since bosses would one shot the tanks during a lunge. Is that the communities fault? Sure, since the reason why the immunity was removed was because it was abused, but that's a discussion for another day. FFe which was supposed to be something for all skill levels, standard and moderate for your casual and pug players, critical for your hardcore endgame leagues, was a good idea except that crit is a joke. Got off topic, but perhaps a middle ground would to just have the stat clamped version give rewards and just have a normal one where you aren't clamped but the only things you can get out of it are feats.

And the devs have shown how far they're willing to go already.

Clamped but higher CR than the NPCs in the content. Stats from Artifacts, SP, Base mods, etc. get applied after the clamp. Plus you get Source Marks for your efforts. And they're leaving the door open right now for how strong players will be able to be while clamped because they're taking in the feedback during testing and using that in the tuning process.

THAT'S your compromise. There's going to be no more one-shots on bosses in old content, and only the latest three episodes will be unclamped. Players have had ample time to come to terms with that.

And even if by some chance they did allow the option you seek? Knowing how parts of this playerbase can act, it wouldn't take long before someone somewhere started bemoaning the fact of how "unfair" it is that players who run the clamped version get Source Marks.

The question was about compromise and I explained how making clamping optional is a compromise.

This.

The people complaining don't want a challenge in all content for whatever reason. The people who want the challenge will have a chance to get better instead of also feeling like the opposite side bringing it all back into a full circle.

I was taught long ago that competition is healthy.

Your optional position, isnt on the table. You will need to compromise with the "Stat clamp" and its limitations, that's what you can compromise with.

Optional Stat clamp

No. I enjoyed the challenge years ago when it WAS a challenge. I've graduated. I've spent the hour(s) in the instance already, and I've moved on. Stat clamping is like taking a nine iron to the frontal lobe over and over again so I can 're-enjoy' the third grade.

farming the FP and Legion content for marks is tediously numbing, it'd be nice to have alternative locations to reliably farm marks instead of a slight chance at a mark in the loot table.

No. A compromise is when both parties give up something to reach an outcome. It’s doesn’t have to meet in the middle. And also what they are doing it a compromise. They could easily say this is how hard/easy we want the game to be because we worked on these mechanics and we don’t want them trivialized. They don’t even need to compromise because they don’t have to reach an mutual outcome with us. But they are working to make it palatable for as many people as they can.


And as for your “they should make it optional” point. Fine if they make it optional than no rewards should be given in the non clamped version. No marks no gear no feats. You still get your optional instance but if you want any kind of reward you have to go to the clamped version.

And I already know what you are gonna say. If you can’t get feats than there is no point. So my question is why should you be allowed to get feats from None clamped content?

The project is too far along in development for any of the things discussed on here to take place. The decisions have been made and are being implemented. One month from today will have giving Daybreak a ton of data to work with to make any adjustments, changes might be possible but not probable. This is the early part of Fiscal Year 2022 and the budget is just so big. Hopefully those on the Test server will faithfully test the changes and give accurate feed back I hope won’t be biased towards one side or the other. Hopefully Daybreak has paid testers too who won’t be swayed one way or the other, I don’t know how they do things.

All this arguing amongst ourselves is accomplishing nothing but providing entertainment to those who love to argue or bully.

I'll give you the gen mods...no sense in changing those. And yes, for T1-T3? those alone are probably too much. But go run anything about AF2 up and stripping down works fine. Again...no one will do it, but if you are bare-butt naked with no artis or augs and 50 SP and still one shotting bosses, I guess it's just your winning smile knocking them dead.

As far as SM being easy or Elite? It still baffles me that people will put together runs with 5 prec DPSs and have a team of arti switching try hards...then say it's too easy. Not saying you should TRY to fail, but if you are doing things that are meant to be above and beyond what the game was designed to handle, yes...it will be easier. The only way to program something 'tough' enough to challenge the top 10% of the players is to make it impossible for the 90% not willing to 'try hard'. Not saying they can't do that on a one-off thing (that's what SM was supposed to be), but to build the whole game around it is counter productive.

Guess what, if you get the clamp and still go the try-hard path...it will still likely be too easy for some. That some does NOT likely include the new user who this clamp is supposed to be pulling in and making customers out of.

And yes...almost everyone would be fine with an option for non clamped=no source and clamped=source. It does not appear to be on the table. Maybe if we get to a point where things are 'bad' enough after the clamp (not saying it will be...but 'if'...) that idea might come back as an option.

And for every time I've ever heard someone lamenting they'd like to 'go back' to teen years or school...it's almost always 'with what I know now'.

Not sure I've ever heard "I'd love to go back, but reverse my knowledge and experience back to what it was then..."