I would love to go back troll

But I consistently run raids without them, and strive. Why did that ever become achievable ?

Stats Revamp and the ability to regain power yourself passively without the need of a troll to replenish your power bar.

Are you running elite? Or end content? I’ve never personally been in end game content without a troll. Not saying it’s not possible. But it’s just something I haven’t see. I see that a lot in duos and alerts. But not end game raids

Stats revamp did not do that at all lol. AM gave players back power when used. Stats revamp removed that. AM was a bad thing that I’m glad are gone. And hopefully for good

Not elite. But i havent qued into fv or ff reg and got a troll in a few weeks & the group runs just fine me a earth tank, a healer and the rest dps

FFr and FVr are in general on the easier side. FFe standard is about the difficulty of regular raids so keep that in mind. I still prefer trolls thou and when someone ques as troll and doesn’t troll I always vote to kick when we get the chance if they don’t switch. I add them to ignore.

Before AM's we had trolls to give us power, during AM's we got power back if a loadout was performed successfully, after AM's was stat revamp and allowed for power regeneration without a troll. Maybe you were not here before AM's?

Maybe I'm way off base here, power consumption is based on your load out. Sure, there's several focuses available. Hybrid being a way to earn your power back with weapon attacks. I admittedly don't run raids often but when I do, there are people at both ends of the spectrum. Some hardly run out of power while others struggle is keep any power. I have a troll, but I don't use him often.

It is true that players run out of power even if there is a troll in the group. Players (some of them) know how to choose a loadout and not run out of power. But to get back to the OP's point, it is that we now have passive power regeneration (how much is dependent on loadout/usage and focus) to give us constant power. A controller these days can be considered an extra power source and adds to the pot of Power-Over-Time (external) and Passive-Power-Regeneration (internal).

If you look back several years ago, pre-AM, any alert group or raid group would wipe if a role was ko'd. Heck, raids had two trolls. But now, who cares! we dont need them anymore as we are now part troll.

Debuffs. Player buffs. And power to be able to spam instead of having to be stingy or use a sub par loadout. All things a troll and only a troll can do that make the entire raid easier. Yes, we can get thru even elite raids without one but no one can get thru a raid quicker and easier without one. Any player that doesn't realize the importance of a troll does not understand the game. 1 added dps is NOTHING compared to 5 buffed against a debuffed boss.

The troll role is in the worst state its ever been. I am so disappointed with how much the devs have phased the role out with arts and revamps. I am almost certain that allies will assist in phasing trolls out even more. The role is so boring and is basically optional at this point.

I know gadgets prec, hard light might DPS and atomic tanks still use a ton of power. Some healers do too (not sure if it's the powerset, the loadaout or the players though). But then again I mostly only run elite content. The funny thing is, between my two characters, I'm gadgets prec, atomic tank and then I troll, so power is a major factor in just about every thing I run. However, while I don't run reg raids very often, I've done it enough to understand why most powerset/role/playstyle combinations can be just fine without a troll in reg. Kinda sad really.

Actually yes I was here before AMs were introduced. YOU said stats clamp caused power regen. No that is not true. AMs did that. People like to blame stats revamp for things wrong with the game.

Power regen is also NOT dependent on loadout. Power regen is affected by max power and focus. You using a more power hungry loadout does not change how much power your regen. Having a larger power pool however does. And dps having to use lower power cost abilities to run without a troll is not ideal at all. You should try to have one of each role in a raid that way the dps can use good loadouts over minimal power cost loadouts. So if you have a properly built group than yes of a troll dies it can lead to a wipe. Or it at the least it can make the rest of the fight harder. A troll is also NOT an extra power source but the primary power source.

And again, trolls are vital to a good set up. Thinking trolls are not is not true at all. We are not all “part trolls”. We can not give out power like a troll. Trolls stopped being power batteries because the troll community largely wanted to stop being batteries.

I use a ton of power too as electric prec lol. Actually all my Prec toons use a good amount of power. I only have a few that don’t. My earth might and and my HL also require a troll too. I actually don’t have a single toon that doesn’t require a troll lol. I mean I could switch to a lower power cost loadout. But why should 5 dps switch to lower power loadouts to add a 6th power friendly dps when the 6th slot could be a troll and the 5 dps could use real loadouts and gain debuffs.

Just my thinking I guess lol

oh yeah, there's definitely a lot more powerset/role/playstyle/LO combos that will run out of power without a troll. The ones I mentioned will run out of power WITH a troll, unless it's a full powertroll. My gadgets prec only recently passed the threshold where I don't have to use sodas for power as long as the troll isn't out and it took 215-230sp in might/power to get there. On top of that, despite mostly buff trolling on my troll side, I still have to go all power generator mods due to the DPS side.

Atomic tanking HQe last DLC was a little rough without at least a battletroll. I had to use energy soda buffs and swap in the power efficiency chest mod and even then was popping a soda nearly off cooldown. Granted, I could have specced SP differently and been just fine since there wasn't a ton of damage mitigation needed. But I wasn't gonna make an entire armory LO for that one instance.

Lol yup. Luckily HL has always been my favorite power (even thou it’s not my main lol) so it’s the power I have most experience with since that’s what I was pre gu36. and power THAT was power hungry. So I’m good at managing my power right now. It’s actually funny, people say ST HL is the most power draining for that power. But it’s my aoe loadout that drains me the fastest lol

Lemme explain it so you may comprehend

Before Weapon Mastery
Trolls: Yes - two of them
Passive Power Regeneration: No
Power Source(s): Troll and/or hit counter

During Weapon Mastery
Trolls: Yes - two of them
Passive Power Regeneration: No
Power Source(s): Troll and/or hit counter

During Advanced Mechanics
Trolls: Yes - one of them
Passive Power Regeneration: No
Power Source(s): Troll and/or hit counter and the power back mechanic of loadout (if done successfully)

During Stats Revamp - Part 1 - Beginning
Trolls: Yes - one of them
Passive Power Regeneration: Yes - See Focus's
Power Source(s): Troll and/or hit counter and Focus
Artifacts: Yes

During Stats Revamp - Part 2 - Current
Trolls: Not Needed - Preferred for Elite Content
Passive Power Regeneration: Yes - See Focus's
Power Source(s): Troll and/or hit counter and Focus
Artifacts: Yes

Dark Soldier says:
But I consistently run raids without them, and strive. Why did that ever become achievable ?

If you ran a raid without a troll up until stats revamp, it would not have been pretty. With the introduction of Stats Revamp and the Power Regeneration through Focus's, we now have Passive Power Regeneration which is a source of power. As i mentioned earlier, I labeled that as an Internal Source and a troll's power an External Source. You can now get by in a raid without a troll due to this power regeneration we now have.

Artifacts also play a key role in this 'achievableness' as one of them (Omegahedron) increase the said Power Regeneration by up to 15%. Power does also play a key role for the power regeneration as it did not before Stats Revamp. Before Stats Revamp, the power pool was just a number and did not have any effect on power regeneration.

So, to be clear, as in my first response in this thread, the answer is Stats Revamp.

As far as what led into the Stats Revamp, well, that would be the AM's. The game went through radical changes and tried new methods on what to do. Just please try not to misinterpret my posts in this thread...i cant be much clearer than this.

No trolls are preferred for elite run? That is not true at all. Trolls tanks and healers are mandatory for elite raids. You are trying to talk down saying I don’t understand. I actually run elite raids over regular raids. I have never had an elite group say no troll. That is not ideal at all. Trolls are mandatory for properly set up groups. If you random que and you get no troll that’s not because that’s preferred. That’s because the person that ques as troll was hoping someone else would troll. Even in regular, having a troll makes it go smoother. Trolls are 100% mandatory for smooth runs.

Can you potentially run without a troll? Yes. Is it optimal? Not at all. For there to be a troll-less raid run the dps have to conserve power and not use their stronger abilities. The healer has to use purple heal ray and he specced super power focused. There also can’t be spike damage that can drain the power. Dps also have to time their supply drops over the healers bar. So no it’s not optimal.

Once again, you did not read it correctly. There is a "-" indicating a separation, it means that Trolls are not needed to run regular content but are preferred in elite content. Im guessing you read it as 'Not Needed Preferred for Elite Content'. Grammar makes a difference!

Again.. trying to talk down to people when you are still wrong. Trolls are needed. Reg, elite. Needed. There is a difference between not needed and doable without. Trolls are mandatory for elite and preferred/required for reg. So no I didn’t misunderstand what you said as you keep trying to claim. I’m just stating flat out that you are wrong. Keep trying to sound smart all you want. You are still wrong and I’m done with you.



OP. I can see where you’d te coming from. But raid runs, regardless of it being elite are reg just go smoother with a troll. Yes some raids can be done without a troll and the current endgame raids are on the easier side. FFr has less constant damage than other raids even older raids currently. So healers can’t normally do just fine without a troll. But that doesn’t mean trolls aren’t needed in game.

Even looking at alerts. The troll-less buff makes it so players regen power faster. However the drawback is that the group as a whole takes a 12% damage debuff each for each extra dps in the group. So I’m a group with 2 dps healer and thank you get debuffed and the troll defense bebuff is gone. Someone did testing and found the the defense debuff is more accurately a damage buff when hitting the target by 10%. So you get a 12% damage debuff on yourself and lose a 10% buff. So if one of the dps switched to troll or battle troll than you lose the debuff and gain a trolls buffs. On my HL when I do alerts I actually battle troll. I normally end up at top dps while also giving out power.

Trolls are very useful.