Materials For All Toons

Discussion in 'Gotham City (General Gameplay)' started by Random Mind, Jul 16, 2021.

  1. HurricaneErrl Dedicated Player

    Are TC auras and other styles available for purchase with replays? I only have 1 real alt and have probably only been in its style tab like once so this is a genuine question lol
  2. TheLorax 15000 Post Club

    Not all TC styles are available, only TCs 1-9. Style unlocking happens in phases and they only open up a few TCs at a time.
    • Like x 3
  3. Random Mind Dedicated Player


    I mean no offense, but how exactly do you know the how well the Batman cowl sold? Did Daybreak release the sales figures to the public? I know that I bought it and I had no issue with the price (I was a little bummed when it went half off, but oh well). Being as highly requested as it was, I would guess that it did sell well, however, since it was not a loot box and people didn't have to buy 50 batman cowl boxes in order to get it, I am positive that the final sales total was not as high as it would have been if it were in a loot box. If you have browsed this thread, I'm sure you know that I support getting rid of all loot boxes in all video games, so I wish Daybreak would do stuff like the Batman Cowl more often. I am an advocate for a better Marketplace, the one we have is pretty stale when it comes to style items. But why put items on the Marketplace when they can put them in loot boxes and make more. I support a game making money, but gambling should be left in Las Vegas.

    As for people complaining about the price, so what. The people who had no problem with the price probably largely outnumbered the complainers (I have no data to back this up, it is just my opinion), but complainers shout louder. I'm sure there would be people complaining if it cost one penny, "Why can't it be free?". My point is I think loot boxes and gambling are clearly wrong and someone complaining about the price of a Marketplace item shouldn't be a pro-loot box argument. I would guess Daybreak could put up with a lot of complaining when it comes to loot boxes because they know what side of their bread is buttered. People being complacent in regards to loot boxes, which I must admit saddens me a great deal, has lead to them being so ingrained in video game developers heads as a source of monetization, it will take a miracle to get rid of them.

    One final point, someone buying $500 worth of Booster Bundles is not a good thing. Even if they can afford it, that scenario should not be endorsed. Encouraging gambling addiction is wrong.
    • Like x 1
  4. Random Mind Dedicated Player


    I have no wish for Daybreak employees to go hungry, but many games have made plenty of money without the use of loot boxes. If the only way DCUO can make money is with loot boxes, shouldn't they rethink their monetization strategy. How much money would be made if they released the items in the Booster Reward Box onto the Marketplace instead? Not as much as the Booster Bundles maybe, but I am sure if they released more items more often, they could definitely make up the difference if not exceed it. Would it take more work, probably, but I hate to have to continually repeat myself, but loot boxes are a disease and I wish Daybreak would go to a doctor and get it looked at.

    I support Daybreak by paying for my membership, which is not cheap by the way, as well as buying various items from the Marketplace. I would happily buy more style items from the Marketplace if the team would just make more available.
    • Like x 4
  5. KHALONofOGUN 10000 Post Club

    While it is your opinion, and you have every right to it, your opinion is bad, and comes from a bad place. First lets dispel this myth you've created about it eating into any profits. Since style unlocks are rolled out at a slow pace, it would take a while for people to get it via that route...therefore it doesn't cut into any profits. Second, even if the profits shift from Stabilizer Keys to Replay Badges, the company doesn't lose profits. That's a seriously bad take on it since the company STILL gets the money. No matter which way you try to paint it, the company gets that money.

    Then there's the wrong-headed mentality of players being greedy. Players want a non-RNG way to obtain materials for their alts that doesn't involve Quarks, and want to use a method that they already provide in Replay Badges. The only reason it's not happening is because of technical hurdles. The people asking for it at cheap replays costs...sure, they're being unrealistic...and "MAYBE" you can say that this mindset is "greedy". But just wanting to be able to unlock them on alts in and of itself is not greedy. No matter how much you feel it is, it's not a fact.

    When Dimensional Ink finds a way to make Material unlock possible, they will do so...and price things accordingly. At that point, players will have the choice of paying that price in Replays or saving Quarks in order to get what they want, and the company will continue making money. You need not worry about how they're going to make a living....they seem to be doing just fine, and if their proposed changes work out, they'll be good for quite some time. Either way, painting your fellow players as greedy or whatever is denigrating and doesn't help much in the conversation, especially since this is a technical hurdle and not a financial one.
    • Like x 8
  6. Curse Bringer Most Wanted

    Personally i think we should be able to. However...

    say you spend the $85 for the most DBG in one shot. you basically get 10-11 boxes depending on the member discount or not. If your lucky you get the bundle your looking for. now, once you have it, I wouldn't be apposed to spending another $10 in DBC for 350 replay badges to unlock the style.

    In reality though, here's the money making process
    10 boxes for $85. No chase aura/mat
    10 more another $85 1 Chase aura/mat
    YAY GOT MY CHASE STYLE!!
    My alt wants it now
    10 More boxes for the $85
    and so on and so forth

    Obviously the style is what everyone looks forward to, however its considered a bonus item in regards to the bundle itself. you get a HUGE amount of goodies for the 10$, and a chance for a chase style

    whether or not you may feel its a dirty money making practice, or plays to a gambling angle is a matter of personal opinion.

    My opinion on loot boxes is a strong one against them, but the booster bundle isn't a traditional "loot box" like the time capsules are. its a strong sale item with a bonus item, and if you want the exclusive bling then you can buy as many as you want until you get it, but there's so much more available with them for the $10

    Should there be other ways to obtain the styles eventually? added to the quark vendor perhaps? I say absolutely, others who've spent $400 to get the style wont feel the same way

    what it comes down to, is you pays your money and you take your chances.
  7. willflynne 10000 Post Club


    Nope, they play it close to the vest on that kind of thing. However, like any other business that sells something, you're likely to see the stuff that sells continue to be provided at the very least and expanded on at the most.

    So what have we seen as far as items provided on the Marketplace? Booster Bundles. Unlocked TCs and Resurgence TCs. Stabilizers to open TCs.

    What hasn't been expanded upon or sold more? Cosmetic items like the Flash and Batman cowls. Material packs like the Gold/Silver/Bronze pack. Aura packs.

    They wouldn't keep coming out with more TCs if they weren't making enough sales to cover the costs for producing them, and we'd see more things like the Batman cowl if they DID sell enough to cover the costs.
    • Like x 1
  8. Random Mind Dedicated Player


    A strong marketplace can make them a profit as many other games have proven. It may take more work but I believe ridding this game of loot boxes is worth the effort.

    I agree that Daybreak is taking a risk with this big update they are doing, but they are doing it anyway, so they are not against taking risks. But shifting profits from loot boxes to market place items I don't think is as big of a risk as the restructuring they are about to implement. It will take a little bit more work and probably some tweeks to the pricing of items along the way, but the issues that will come with the update in my opinion would far outweigh any issues that may come with a new monetization model.

    I will also say, Daybreak has had plenty of time to remove loot boxes and try another monetization model but they haven't done it, so maybe doing it now may not be ideal, but doing it in the future is only a matter of if they want to do it, which if the past has shown, is not on their list of things to do.
  9. KHALONofOGUN 10000 Post Club

    They did not release actual numbers. However, it had been casually mentioned that it didn't do as well as expected. Couple that with the number of threads complaining about the price, the number of people outright proudly stating they would not buy at that price or even on sale, and more of the same being stated on Social Media made it pretty clear people were not for it, even though it was only $20.

    I bought it day one myself with no hesitation. Others on day one balked at the price. Threads came up immediately decrying the "overly high" asking price...despite the fact that there was ZERO RNG involved, you could claim it on all toons, and could claim it on future toons as long as the servers were still on, they still thought it was too high. It did not sell well enough to satisfy the company.

    Of course it would have sold better in a loot box. Limited Time Scarcity + Plus Highly Sought Item= big profit.


    I have always been a firm supporter of direct marketplace cosmetics. I've supported that 100% and have argued with people who complain about fair prices as being too high when the alternative is gamble loot boxes and whatnot. People insisted on dirt cheap prices while simultaneously being able to redeem on all characters in perpetuity. That's not realistic nor would it lead to keeping the company afloat for very long.

    You'll have to ask your fellow players that question. Unfortunately, that horse left the barn a long time ago and there won't be no turning back (at least not for the foreseeable future.


    If all they did was complain, no big deal. The problem was that they complained and spoke with their wallets.

    Wrong....so wrong. There were plenty of people who either never cared for the style in the first place (not everyone wanted to be Batman or a Batman-type), or who didn't vocally complain but also chose to not buy the item even on sale. That was a much larger number than those of us who did buy it.


    It isn't...not for the playerbase. But it does explain why things are the way they are.

    This is all a moot point. The damage was done a long time ago. Started with the marketplace being underdeveloped from the start, was compounded by the game being forced to go "FTP" instead of remaining subscription only as it started, and then made worse by people insisting things either be free or as dirt cheap as possible. So here we are years later.

    Whether it's a "good" thing or not doesn't matter much. It's been going on for a long while now and still goes on right now. Until they start developing their marketplace better and changing things so that they can profit properly from it, these boxes will go nowhere.

    What we can do is continue asking for direct to marketplace items, and actually supporting those items when they are released. If you want them to see that this is viable we need to buy these things. But if all people do is complain and refuse to buy, they'll continue pushing things out that work for them. And like it or not, it's working for them.
    • Like x 5
  10. Jade Rebel Dedicated Player

    There’s two sides of a coin to this though, how many players stop spending to get more than the 1 material after getting the feat/cosmetic with no hopes of obtaining another material because they know they either have really bad rng odds or they just not interested in getting more for their alts. For me, I know I have very horrible rng chance, so once I obtained a material that’s it, not spending anymore, and that’s why I have spilt various materials across my alts because I know I would have a very slim chance on obtaining a second one,

    In this case Daybreak would have no profits here, since these players stopped trying to obtain another material. Material unlocking is a good thing, it’s not being greedy at all, if it opened up an easy way for people to obtain them on their alts once they collected it at least once on their account, people would definitely be interested. Daybreak would see money investment from people who stopped spending to rng capsules. And If anything it wouldn’t hurt the player economy either, since, if u don’t have the material at least once, players would still have to obtain it once via time capsules or second chance vendor or by players just to be able to unlock that material for alts
    • Like x 4
  11. Random Mind Dedicated Player


    The reason Stabilizers,Unlocked Time Capsules and Booster Bundles are continually on the Marketplace and more separate style items are not is simply greed. Putting items on the Marketplace would make Daybreak money but putting those same items in loot boxes would make them more. In the end it comes down to what a lot of company decisions come down to.... money, no matter how despicable and vile the use of loot boxes is.
  12. Mepps Sr. Community Manager

    This thread has been locked for a few days; that's my fault, because I locked it to clean up the rather ridiculous off topic and forum-inappropriate comments, and got pulled away by higher priority things.

    ---

    I have a few comments that will perhaps add clarity to some of the topics here.

    Many of us disagree on what time capsules or boosters are in a fundamental way. In both, you always get your $10 or $1 worth of stuff, with a chance to get a little more or a lot more. These are cosmetics, not gambling, and don't "prey" on anyone. It's okay to disagree.

    Beyond that, we have a disagreement on what a game and its free-to-play virtual items should cost. Generally, you want less and we want more. Specifically, we want to continue live development on this game for at least another decade, we want to keep the team size what it is now or bigger, and we want to be able to maintain quality and quantity. You want that, too, but you are (through no fault of your own) unaware of what that takes or costs. What we're doing now will do that. Maybe another way would, too, but understand changes there are "betting the farm" as they say.

    The batman cowl! Priced at $20 originally, it was met with many complaints at that price point and people did not flock to buy it. Taking the long view, though, it is the best-selling style item in the marketplace by far, lifetime, and made great money. That said, the money it made over its lifetime is insignificant to the money it would have made in a few months contributing to a booster bundle or time capsule.

    Several different lessons or takeaways from the cowl, which will probably clarify or aggravate based on your positions.

    ----

    To the actual thread's topic:

    We very briefly dug up the information on how materials were implemented and how that was different from styles. The work to make materials unlockable made engineering whistle sadly, which puts it in the realm of possible but perhaps not feasible based on what else we would need to not do to get it done. It's a good idea in some ways, but also not in others because materials are a very different and special kind of cosmetic item. Something to revisit after 41, perhaps.
    • Like x 15
  13. Jack T. Chance Devoted Player

    On the subject of the Batman Cowl Pack specifically.... I was one that said $20 was too high initially. Since it's been out for several years now, my memory's getting fuzzy, but I believe I took advantage of a sale when I bought it.

    HOWEVER... what I've seen NO ONE mention in this thread, not even Mepps, is that some time back, the price was PERMANENTLY DROPPED to only $2 US, fully 90% off of the original price! This permanent price reduction also applies on the Loyalty Vendor for Console Players. Honestly, I'm sad that I paid a substantially higher price for it than the n00bs that are just starting the game.

    AND YET... there are STILL some that won't, or rather CAN'T, buy it, which has NOTHING to do with anything except for the fact that the country they live in has flushed its economy so far down the toilet that people barely even have a pot to pee in, let alone $2 US for an in-game Bat Cowl. Which is why some of those Free To Play Players didn't get a proper Bat Cowl until the Knight of Vengeance Time Capsules launched! ;)
    • Like x 2
  14. Reinheld Devil's Advocate

    Agreed it's not 'preying' on anyone...we all make the decision we buy something or not (unless you have a compulsive disorder...which I'd guess is not most people playing the game). However TC items (especially the rare materials) are NOT just cosmetics as soon as they have feats attached. BB stuff...100% optional...and sell like hotcakes. Mats/auas/shinys that do not have feats often are as desirable as their 'feat' counterparts (stuff like Power of Zeus eyes and some of the cooler orbitals). And while it might not be 'gambling' as long as there is some chance of not getting what you want and RNG, yeah...it's a game of chance.

    Remove the feats form TC items and yeah...you'll still sell a bunch and make money, but it would then make things really 'cosmetic' and 'optional'.

    Back on topic though. What about making mats tied to feats, so that if the feat is unlocked on an alt, the reward is granted...similar to other feats/rewards we have today?
    • Like x 4
  15. Hellclown127! Well-Known Player

    Straight up, if the items from Time Capsules are meant to be cosmetic only. Then stop attaching feats to them. Some people can't afford to open the sometimes literal hundreds it takes to acquire everything from them. You say it doesn't prey on people but you're forcing them to have to buy something to get skill points.
    • Like x 4
  16. TKMcClone Steadfast Player

    Rather than using the style UI is it possible / less effort:
    1) to make materials part of the marketplace system, where claimed Mats & Chromas are available for account bound purchases
    or
    2) set up a material / chroma vendor that shows most everything with previews. And, items that a player owns are available for account bound purchase with replays.

    I suspect that some Mats & Chromas, seasonals for example, might be excluded.
    • Like x 3
  17. nawanda Loyal Player

    I find Mepps’s claim that time capsules and booster bundles are not gambling to be disingenuous. Among other people, the children’s commissioner for England (the country I live in), would disagree about that.

    Loot boxes are unregulated, do not provide options for consumers to set limits and controls on their spending, do not provide information on people’s chances of getting a rare item (although the time capsule tooltip changes a year a two or go were a step in the right direction, they need to go further - being more specific than “< 1%” and extending this to Booser Bundles) and are SPECIFICALLY DESIGNED to encourage compulsive behaviour. But that’s all OK as long as the game can keep going for another ten years, is essentially the justification for DCUO having lootboxes. I’m saying they can have loot boxes but make some changes so they are implemented in a responsible way.
    • Like x 4
  18. Stanktonia Dedicated Player

    So, is it gambling when people constantly replay content, scavenging for rare items. Rng has been a pillar in mmos for years, so where do we draw the line when differentiating between rng, and a legitimate case for gambling
  19. Jack T. Chance Devoted Player


    When you have to pay Real World Money for a chance to "win" stupidly rare loot (<1% chance of actually getting it from any 1 Time Capsule or Boo$ter Bundle) then there's a very good chance that the Courts and Lawmakers would view it as gambling.

    "You pays your money and you takes your chances."
    --The Joker
    • Like x 1
  20. nawanda Loyal Player

    We draw the line first of all by taking a common sense approach to the issue, not by trying to muddy it. If you don’t know the difference between a loot box and not a loot box, you’re going to struggle to grasp the issues involved.
    • Like x 2