Zack Snyder's Justice League

https://www.cbr.com/zack-snyder-justice-league-36-percent-audience-finished-first-week/

Questions -

So if WB told Zach to remove John Stewart from the Martian Manhunter scene at the end then why?

Supposedly - there are "other" plans for John Stewart......if so, what? When?

Supposedly - there are NO Green Lantern movies planned.

Supposedly, there aren't going to be anymore Zach Snyder JL movies, BUT------------



-------because "supposedly" the "Snyder Cut" didn't exist............

yet here we are with THIS THREAD LOOL.



C'mon WB. Love ya but seriously.

I guessing GL had to be cut because of the upcoming HBO Max Green Lantern series.

When they said Snyder cut didn't exist. It meant it needed work for SFX and edits.

I'm sad thinking of what could have been so I admire it from afar without getting my hopes up

Batfleck was the hero Gotham deserved but sadly not the one it needed

But but but........according to HBO MAX that Green Lantern Series supposedly held Hal Jordan, John Stewart AND Kyle Rayner OUT OF IT....excluded those three for "something else"........................

https://www.cinemablend.com/news/25...the-green-lantern-corps-movie-still-happening

This confusion reminds me of that CLASSIC Sesame Street children's song I grew up on - the one that "hinted" you towards the thing that was missing on the screen -



"One of these things is not like the other, one of these doesn't belong................."

Personally - I wish that WB would simply get out of Mr. Zach Snyder's way.........................

The man has - by NOW - PROVED that he is BONAFIDE and can produce a HIT - if left ALONE.

The movie was not bad huge improvement from the original release. Some tho still don't like Zack Synder's tone, Also I was really bummed out they couldn't get green lantern in there in time

I "get" the issues with Zach Snyder's tone - I really do.

The "Shazam" movie proved to be a hit because it was "Sunny".................

Well - I believe that Zach Snyder "gets" DC Characters. Even in the Justice League Unlimited Series they PERFECTLY explained the difference between Shazam and Superman / Batman RIGHT HERE -





In the SECOND clip, Batman and Superman CLEARLY discuss the difference between he, Batman and Captain Marvel - calling him "Sunny"....

Captain Marvel, while EXTREMELY powerful - is a naive and innocent teenager - one that Lex CLEARLY exploits.

Supes THEN goes on to give Captain Marvel quite the spanking......





......hopefully knocking some sense into him AND giving him a nice shiner on his left eye in the process.

Look if the "Media hounds" can't tell the difference between DC characters then I don't know WHO will.

I honestly do NOT get the supposed Dark Tone that some say exists with Zach Snyder DC movies....I mean - by NOW we ALL should know that BvS was CUT....Joss Whedon's Justice League was a sham....not even so much due to Joss' influence BUT due to Zach's unfortunate tragedy AND the fact that WB CUT SO MUCH OF HIS MOVIE.....................

Zach Snyder gets it. I wish WB would give him MORE DC stuff to work with.

At this point I'd even trust him with My Man Augustus Freeman IV / Icon. I bet HE could pull it off.

I think this kid LOVES Zach Snyder's stuff.

I finally finished watching it yesterday and agree with a lot of the comments in the thread. It was a massive improvement over the film released, the biggest improvements being Cyborg and Flash having better stories. Also agree the Flash effects are hit and miss. I really liked the scene at the end when he reverses time, but the other scenes don't seem to be as good as some TV show or Marvel Quicksilver scenes. Wonder Woman, Cyborg and Flash turn out best. Superman is fine. Aquaman seems mostly left out. I'm kind of torn about Batman. I think the casting is right, but Ben seemed a lot better in the role during Batman v Superman. I don't think he is as good in this movie. Steppenwolf improves from the released film, but still isn't much of a villain. Some Darkseid is better than none, but the opening scene should have had some Omega beams taking people out. Entire epilogue feels pointless and could have been dropped. Maybe move it earlier in the film? Before bringing Superman back? I think that would have tied in better to the original BvS Nightmare scene, plus setup the fight with Superman better.

I told my kids it moved up to a Solid B from an original F (maybe it was D+).

Does this thread really have 14,000 views? Or is that a glitch?

I think the kid watching MoS called his friends.

I may be one of the few who has an issue with the Snyder Cut of Justice League. I enjoyed it but I feel like it is given too much credit.

My issue is that Zach Snyder had an a couple of pretty big advantages when he released his version vs. Joss Whedon's. The main advantage, is the Snyder Cut is 4 hrs long, versus the less than 2 hr runtime of Joss Whedon's Justice Leage. People are celebrating Cyborg and Flash's improved backstory but what would it look like if Zach Snyder's version was cut by 2 hrs. The producers wanted the Justice League to be under the 2 hr mark, so if Zach Snyder had released his version theatrically, a lot of the improvements would not have been seen. Of course, the Blu-Ray probably would have had a lot of deleted scenes, maybe there would have been an Ultimate edition like The Watchmen (another Snyder film). The Snyder Cut was essentially two films in one, of course there was going to more character development because you had the time. What would Whedon's version look like if he was given two more hours?

The other advantage Zach Snyder had was hindsight. When he was putting together his version Snyder knew what fans did and didn't like about Whedon's version which I'm sure helped him in his editing process as well. He didn't just put his film reels in box and send them to HBO, he did additionally shooting and made improvements to his film. That Joker scene was not in the original Snyder Cut, it was filmed after.

Finally, throwing in cameos from popular characters like Darkseid and Martian Manhunter are of course going make fans happy, so that really helped to elevate the film, but would they have made the cut if the film was only 2 hrs long?

In the end, what happened to Zach Snyder and his family was a tragedy and I'm glad he was able to show the fans his vision, but to compare Zach Snyder's version to Joss Whedon's version straight up, I think is unfair to Joss Whedon. Let's remember Whedon wrote and directed the first Avengers, essentially the beginning of the monolith known as the MCU, so he has some talent.

*sorry for the rant*

Interesting take but I try to consider a few things -

Granted - I am "NOT" a WB insider so ALL of this is speculation - just like much of us "Snyder Fans" speak of.

But from what I "SEE" - WB had already hemmed Zach Snyder up from the start - with his "THREE" movies.....

He had to bring DC Universe onto the Big Screen in ONLY THREE MOVIES....think about that.

Back in the 70s-80s whomever did Superman back THEN got FOUR WHOLE MOVIES....with JUST HIM. Not Green Lantern cameos, Flash, Batman......just HIM.

Now? Zach got ONLY THREE movies.....just ONE to bring Superman to life....and do it in a SET amount of time. He used the FIRST ONE for Superman ONLY.....dude TRIED to leave some Easter Eggs even then, with Martian Manhunter's Human form AND Carol Ferris serving in the military as well.

Just ONE movie for perhaps the most Iconic (and powerful) being in ALL of comics....C'MON WB...............

Next? He has to literally shove DC's Big Three (Batman, Wonderman, Superman) into the NEXT movie. No leadups to each character (unlike MARVEL).......and he has to think outside the box and recycle Zod into Doomsday as the boss......

He THEN gets ONLY ONE movie to recruit more Justice League members.....have Batman find them...convince them to join....do their backstories.....AND introduce the BIG BADDIE in Darkseid......

Ideally, WB handcuffed Zach to tell DC's Story in just THREE Movies....and they wanted him to shoot for TWO HOURS ONLY for each movie?

Did Marvel do the same for ITS movies? And no one complained about the majority of Marvel Movies going WELL OVER two hours....with IW and Endgame both going over THREE, right?

The STORY was most important for Marvel.

Also consider - there was talk about Thanos for SEVERAL MOVIES leading up to Infinity War and Endgame....it was MASTERFULLY DONE......

Marvel's Pet Captain America got what? THREE MOVIES (The First Avenger, Winter Soldier, Civil War).....ALL of these movies laying the groundwork for even MORE characters (Nick Fury, Winter Soldier, Falcon, Black Panther, Black Widow and a HOST of villains......)....but yet ALL THREE movies centered around Steve Rogers....................

Tony Stark got what? THREE movies....and a PLETHORA of cameos all over the place.

Ant Man? LOOL he got TWO movies....even making mention of my man GOLIATH in the 2nd movie





It's little details LIKE THAT that ENDEAR a fan base to its product. Zach Snyder did not get the same leeway, plain and simple.

Now....has WB produced OTHER DC movies? Sure. They did Captain Marvel and maybe got lost....being that they perhaps got DRUNK off of the success of THAT movie without realizing that - at its HEART - Captain Marvel is about an INNOCENT and NAIVE teenager and Superman has had perhaps the greatest depth (and personal LOSS) than most...if not ALL - other Comic characters outside of my man Augustus Freeman IV / Icon.....

They (Superman and Captain Marvel) are two DIFFERENT characters. One is "Sunny" and loveable and the other is the last son of Krypton and carries the weight of the world on his shoulders.

Wonder Woman movie? Another GREAT one...well done. Thoroughly enjoyed. Mention was made of Batman at the beginning but no other lead-in or tie in to any other "Grand DC movie storyline"...................

Suicide Squad? Decent, but stand alone. Very few mentions of other DC characters and no LEAD IN to any other movies unlike Marvel.

Aquaman? Thoroughly enjoyed it. Again - standalone and in THAT regard a very good movie. Admittedly I did not like Jason Momoa at first but he certainly grew on me towards the end and in Zach's JL movie.

WB cancelled Cyborg's movie....why? And we STILL don't have a FLASH movie yet...............

Even Michael B Jordan reportedly says that WB is all over the place and he is unsure of what they are doing.



I really hope WB does the RIGHT THING and introduce Augustus Freeman IV / Icon as "The Black Superman". He's been around since 1993 (Calvin Ellis Superman 2009), and has an INTERESTING and capable partner in Rocket.



Icon "IS" in the DC Continuum and has MET Superman and even fought him. They ARE in the SAME UNIVERSE. The last meeting between the two of them they left as close friends





They appear to have a close relationship and mutual respect of one another.

But back to this WB / DC and Disney / Marvel thing -

I really not sure of what "WB's Vision" is for THEIR movies. Marvel? They are BLOWING IT OUT of the water.......this is NOT on Zach Snyder and I believe - if left ALONE - he can turn this thing around..................

Is WB / DC settling for 2nd place? Let me tell you when I served in The Navy I did NOT settle for 2nd place....NEVER....and nor was such a thing EVER TAUGHT to us sailors. Even IF / WHEN we came in second place for various competitions and exercises we WENT INTO THE THING with the MINDSET that we were THE BEST....

I'd strongly suggest WB think like that. If they don't then they need to clean house and bring in Like-Minded People that don't SETTLE....

Joker movie did a Billion? So what...........................................................

At the end of the day I'm an opinionated Old Head. I don't have ALL the answers but I know what I see. I grew up loving DC and Marvel, favoring DC and now I'm appalled that Marvel is so far ahead......

Don't settle, WB. Strive for 1st place. Zach Snyder can do it and bring in others (like WW producer and whomever did Aquaman and Shazam) to help.

Stop settling. Stop ostracizing some of your fanbase and actually LISTEN.

I would quote your entire post but it's a little long, but it was very well done and I agree with all of it.

I agree that DC rushed the Snyderverse and they did it to catch up to Marvel which was a shame because the quality suffered. DC has been their own worst enemy when it comes to their live action movies, which is weird considering how good their animated films are (Batman: Under the Red Hood is one of my favorite films of all time, it literally made me a Red Hood superfan). However, not all of issues with the Snyderverse were because it was rushed. First off, while I liked Ben Affleck as Batman and Henry Cavill as Superman, I was not really a fan of the darker nature of the characters. Superman breaking a villains neck is not Superman and in Batman vs. Superman it felt like it was more Thomas Wayne version of Batman than Bruce Wayne. Secondly , while the stories may have been rushed, in my opinion they still could have been a lot better quality. For example, if they were going to use Doomsday, did they really need the Zod connection? They could have easily been interrupted while fighting with the ground rumbling and Doomsday's fist smashing through the surface with him in his containment suit (or not), and then have them put aside their differences and join forces against Doomsday. That would also get rid of the whole "Martha" scenario, which was ridiculous.

I also agree with the point about using Icon. I was disappointed when they announced they were making Clark Kent black versus using Icon (and Rocket). As you said he is essentially "The Black Superman" and it sucks that they decided they needed the name of Superman instead of using Icon. Even if they said they were using Calvin Ellis or Val Zod, I still wouldn't have agreed because it still shows that they need the name the Superman versus using Icon, who while similar to Superman is definitely more original than Calvin Ellis or Val Zod. I may not own any Icon comic books or be as big of a fan as you, but I still know who he is. If they can trust James Gunn to develop B or even C level characters in Suicide Squad, surely they could have developed a good script for Icon. Icon may not be a household name but I'm sure seeing him on the big screen could have created a lot of new fans.

While, in my opinion, Icon would have been a better choice, I probably would have preferred Steel. Yes, you could say that he still is using the brand of Superman, but I am a big fan of the Death of Superman/Reign of the Supermen storyline and John Henry Irons is a great character. Unfortunately, any chance of a Reign of the Supermen film is long since past, so a Steel spin-off is hard to imagine.

The whole point of my post was that for people to trash Joss Whedon's Justice and praise Zach Snyder's version, when the Snyder Cut had double the run time and advantage of fan feedback and character cameos, isn't fair to Joss Whedon. Zach Snyder's version would look a lot different if it was only 2 hrs long like Whedon's version and released at the same time. It still may have been better but it would not have been as good as the Snyder Cut we got.

I loved the film Zack Snyder's cut Justice league, it was a masterpiece how he gave more meaning to Flash and Cyborg, and that's what I like to see, is underated powerhouses finally get attention, my only discomfort with the film was not seeing Darkseid in action but it was very believable seeing him be defeated in the flashback war, since we are dealing with gods such as Zeus and Ares, Darkseid alone can't even defeat Ares, Ares is a very underated character who falls victim to PIS characters imo.

As for Zack Snyders future films, I want see some Raven or Zatanna get some spotlight, Marvel has done well showcasing their Magic characters in the media like Strange, Wanda, Thor, Loki and even Surtur, now I want to see more variety from DC comics, so maybe a Justice League Dark would be a nice touch, with Fate, Trigon or even Mordru the Immortal etc.

I've seen this reference before - in regards to the dark nature portrayed with Superman in MoS and the dark tone in BvS. Here's my take on it:

It's taken some time to REALLY analyze the hows / whys of Superman choosing to do what he ultimately did to Zod but I'd try to consider a few things -

General Zod would NOT have stopped his rampage and ultimate goal of bringing back Kryptonians on the bones of Earth's Humans if Superman would've let him live



Additionally - "IF" Superman could've stopped him without killing him - where on Earth would they CONTAIN General Zod? I don't think Kal-El had any ideas for this OR any "Spare Kryptonite" to throw in a holding cell.

Just about ALL of Superman's new friends (Professor Hamilton and the Military General that died when fighting Faora Ul)....



...died trying to save Earth.

Additionally - General Zod was a MILITARY General - trained in warfare far advanced than ANYTHING Kal-El had experienced on Earth. Perhaps the ONLY thing that kept the final fight with Zod remotely even was his inexperience with his powers AND Earth's atmosphere....but he WAS getting close to mastering both of these obstacles.

I think Kal realized this and the final confirmation was Zod's willingness to singe that family alive right in front of him. Kal made the right choice.

Blame Zach Snyder for perhaps paying TOO MUCH attention to detail but I loved it. Everything in that MoS movie made sense to me.

Furthermore - in regards to the Dark Tones - look no further than the OLD SCHOOL Superman 3 movie from the 80s when he displayed his Dark side in becoming a wino



And I won't even post the EPIC timeline from his Superman TAS and onto the JLU series in explaining his 40+ years conflict with Darkseid and his sometimes irrational behavior displayed in dealing with him. That would take up another whole page but I can explain that too if you wish.

Zach Snyder gets DC characters. I think he realizes that - as beings like Superman hang around humans - they ULTIMATELY take on many of our characteristics - good AND bad.

As for your second point I think it would've been a tougher sell just having "Doomsday appear out of nowhere" like that. Zach needed a tie-in and with the limited screen time he got to develop these characters I think he still did admirably.

Finally - in regards to Joss Whedon? Outside of his rumored spat with WW (which I agree with WW doing what she did to get rid of him) I don't think WB was going to give him ANY MORE leeway in expanding that film - no more than what they gave Zach.

The Snyder Cut is WB's capitulation to both him AND the fans - FINALLY allowing HIS vision to come forth. This is what happens when WB decides to go Marvel style and let the creators CREATE.