Long Live the legion feedback/ general content feedback. When will Bounty grind stop?

Validus is the perfect model/example for this.
The weekly can be KO any of the sub bosses (that would get KO’d to spawn validus) and KO’n validus himself.
We have everything we need in that 8 min fight to sustain the multiple boss open world bounties and do it all in 1 fight. It IS the compromise (if the devs would see it).
It would make it farm friendly in that you’d get a spawn every 10 min instead of the current 30 min cycle. This would net 6 kills per hour not 2. Thats a 66.66% increase in farm rate and make this so much more palletable.

Cost n the vendor is a whole dif animal needing re-evaluated but even with current cost, a system like i just outlined satisfies alot of complaints at once all while compromising on what we say we want vs what the devs give us. Its best of both worlds.

I generally say “need semi-competent ____ for ABC raid...pst for inv”
To each his own tho hahaha

Dcuo wasnt filled with Bountys like it is currently they tested it and most are tired of this so they should move back to the old way. Its 2020 im sure They can do this multiple large raids per episode if not then atleast one but then a total of 3 Raids(1 long one). Even if they re use some maps fine aslong as we get this content they can save time in many ways and raids should be last thing that they rush since to me and most i know raids are the single most important content on each episode.

And yes Origin crisis failure wasnt just paradox/nexus one difficulty system but fault of other things.

Yes if he had just validus as worldboss and then they can focus on another long Raid.

Considering all of the bellyaching (valid to some degree), i'd say this will be the last of it for a while (if they ever do it again).

Something that way TOO many players are unaware of and don't take into consideration....those classic raids from the early game were developed before the game's release. In other words when they were developing the entire thing they were also working on the content that would come out just before they started to make and release DLCs. That meant a larger budget, and a much larger team with way more time to develop.

They also had a significantly less complicated system in place to have to deal with. They were subscription only when they started, with 8 powers (before any revamps and additions), no added DLCs yet, no replays, no power creep yet, no modding system, before a million PvP changes, no Auras/extra color option/Materials, no Skimming, no Home Turf additions (back ups, side kicks, no white gear mods, no Weapons Mastery/AM/Stats Revamp, no augments and artifacts. I'm sure I might have forgotten some additions/changes over the years, but i'm sure you're starting to get the picture. They had less to deal with (not withstanding GU 3 and the Sony hack), so when you sit there wondering why they can't deliver the same "quality" as the classic content, these are the things you should be taking into consideration.

And while there are some outliers here and there (Origin Crisis, Amazon Fury II), they have done their best to deliver content we would like....but with tastes varying wildly and them trying to address a million different complaints, they will never please 100% of the playerbase 100% of the time (and OC came with a ton of complaints). And if you REALLY believe that we ever had a truly golden era before everything "went wrong" all you need do is dig into the archives and you'll see nothing but complaints from the start all the way through to this very thread.

Not a bad suggestion, just don't expect that so soon. They'll need time to plan and then execute something like that.

You're forgetting something critical in your assessment here...you and your friends are not the only ones playing. And while there are a lot of people that love raids and other instanced group content, there are plenty others who want or need smaller content as well as content that isn't exclusively contingent on going into instances or having to be grouped up with others.

There were several reasons why the Monthly content era failed, but one of the biggest ones was the utter lack of open world content. People needed a way to progress that wasn't overly reliant on going into instances or exclusively grouping up.

I do like the idea of using previous instances for Open World content, but you do have to realize that even re-using assets does not mean that they will magically have more time to develop more content, and that they have a limit as to how much content they can develop in general. And with all of the demands of "better" content and such, any time saved in re-using assets will go into said content which will mean generally the same amount that they've been working with up until Wonderverse (Open World, Solo/Duo, Alert{s}, Raid{s}/Elite Raid{s}).

When it comes to currency, they have their set formula for how much they expect us to earn in a given period (including bonus weekends/weeks). Any changes to our benefit would come with a disadvantage for us (increased prices for everything). You might think "it doesn't have to be that way", but it does for them. And that's before we factor that they would take a hit in replay sales to some degree.

I do agree that they should add a chance to receive seals of preservation in out of relevancy content...and that's a suggestion that should be brought up on it's own so that they might actually consider that.

Again, I would remind you that you and your friends aren't the only ones playing this game, and that they've already gone down the road where the primary focus was on instanced content, and it wasn't always as well received as you think it would be. Balance is what we should be striving for. We need open world for solo players to progress, we need it to have something to do when people aren't on or when we're in slow forming groups. We need it to break up the monotony of instanced content. We need it for people who have a hard time getting into groups in general.

Issue with this is then the pricing even more. I'd have to guess if we had a Validus fight only, they'd HAVE to reduce the prices or increase the drops...same with the shards...bad enough you only get 1 drop every 7 or 8 boss fights, reduce that to 1 every 30 min or so, and yeah....good luck getting the OP goggles.

I'm down with the idea though. Almost any change for the better is a good idea really. The bounties were a nightmare in WV, but at the time you could look at it as a limited time thing. 2 DLCS makes the beginning of a very bad pattern starting. It took what....5 DLCs to do away with the 'kill XXX adds' design? I hope it doesn't take 5 DLCs to change up the bounties.

Giving it more thought, the reason the timers exist in the first place is because the developers are controlling the potential yield through time.

What they're saying is that if you were to do say 3 hours** a day grinding bounties that would be 48 x 6 = 288 marks a day

If a DLC lasts say 4 months at a guess or say 120 days, over the course of a DLC that would be 34,560 marks.

The questions really are I guess

• **is 3 hours a reasonable period to be farming every day, is it realistic?
• How many marks do you need, is even 3 hours, too high or too low?
• How quickly should players be expecting to achieve rewards?
• How quickly do the developers expect players to achieve rewards?
• If the timers were removed how quickly would players achieve rewards as opposed to now?

These are the questions I'm asking myself because even now I'm suggesting taking the timers away, but when you look at the actual math, should we be looking at ourselves as a community and this probably if we're honest, unhealthy rabid obsession with having everything done immediately.

It happens every time, players rabidly try to get their renown complete, rabidly try to get counter feats completed, rabidly try to build the OP items, all in course of the first few weeks, then they rabidly gear up.

I suppose when you consider that aspect, it shouldn't really come as any sort of shock that the developers try to at least stick in some artificial time barriers to preserve the longevity of their DLC, lest they just then start getting complaints from the community that they're bored and the DLC sucked - it's probably realistically catch 22 the more you look at it.

Perhaps the answer really is that the community needs to slow its roll, curb some expectations and stop trying to maul a DLC in the first few weeks of its release

Well actually... there were bounties, they've even done this before in open worlds in Lightning Strikes, if you thought 100 counter feats were bad, try 500 where you even have to find them in mutiple locations

Also I get your feel, I really do, everyone wants longer, better, bigger content, but it does take time to create, especially if its fresh and new feeling and none of us really know how big the DI development team is, but I'd hazard a guess it's not particularly massive, certainly by comparative standards to other MMO's.

I think what I'm really getting at here, is that it's easy for us to say make "more", make "bigger here on the forums it's another to actually have the time and resources to undertake the demand, I believe you're under estimating the magnitude of work required.

When was the DLC where they mainly focused on instance based content? And people complain about bountys now so? As i said one openworldboss is fine. And trust me im sure that most players want more raids has nothing to do with me or my friends.

Im not gonna play this dlc because they made the openworld look fancy and big but i would if it had more raids (longer ones) in them or atleast 2 and one of them being Long.

You are right that the game was more simple when they created FOS but its 2020 i think they should be able to re-create such content. If you look at twitch the long live the legion dlc preview livestream most in the comments were complaining that theres again only one raid and this is a big issue. Now a second raid doesnt mean it should be a rushed and quick one lets not forget that im talking about a legit raid that is like Power core is this too much to ask for? Considering the re-using of some maps and cutting back on the openworld and re-using maps there? I think this is achievable. Look at the openworld its huge and good looking but thats not content or gonna keep me interested its just a minor thing and should be less priority then raids and instances etc.

Yes the dev team isnt huge but if they would do such raids they would be able to increase the popularity of the game and cash income and have more budget unless its a fixxed amount that will never be increased by daybreak if thats the case then theres also no point to even playing this game for me if its always gonna be a low amount of ressources to create new episodes. But if they managed to get 20.000 thousand dollars for a charity this game has s good amount of income. So why are they not increasing the dev Team?
See nobody disagrees with me wanting a large long raid but most disagree with bountys isnt it simple to just accept this for the devs?

The other option is that we recycle completely, if something has been long enough then perhaps it's ok to just go back and re-use.

If you're after a FOS like experience, would you be opposed to going back there with just new boss experiences and a completely re-used environment?

It could incorporate of course several areas of FOS to make it ever so slightly different, but that would probably be more do-able than creating an entirely new raid of the same magnitude.

Respectfully getting money for charity isn't the same as getting money for your game. People aren't really donating that money for DCUO they're donating it to give to the children's hospital, at least you'd hope so, right.

Even if people don't like the game they'd still likely come along and donate because the value of the cause outweighs any feeling you have for the game or the people involved.

The tricky thing with employment, resources etc, is that obviously any/all of us are guessing at what that might be, none of us know, none of us will likely ever know, you only see what DI choose to let you see.

DI also isn't a charity itself so unfortunately as a business striving to make more and more profit they're not always going to stick profit into expansion that negates the point of making the profit at all, there's a balance between making profit and resourcing your business.

Also making "huge" content, whatever that might subjectively be seen as doesn't assure an increase in popularity or revenue either, what if you spend heaps of money making "huge" content you and your friends like but 100 other people hate it, there's risk in that as well. You're a little too "black and white" - the world is much grayer

Well i have no issues if they would slightly rework those maps maybe we can enter other areas of the Raids which werent enterable in the old FOS as a way to continue the raid and make a story out of that. And this can work for Khandaq and many old raids too. These raids still look amazing 10 years later.

If i remember correctly power core had 5 Bosses? Which all dropped loot marks this is seriously a perfect raid and has everything i want and im sure most will agree with me if we can get just one raid like this per episode i can see this game becoming so fun and exciting.

Not really comparable though. There were 9 LS bounties, all which counted towards the 500, that's 57 rotations....less than almost every bounty feat in WV and Legion. Add to that the fact that eventually (and it wasn't years...it was months) these bounties could be done by 4 or 5 people in a group and could knock out 9 in 30 min if you knew the spawns (ok...Abra/Zoom is a crapshoot)...more like 10 min nowadays. When we are at CR 1000 in 10 years, a rotation in Wonderverse/Legion will still take 30 min...even if you can solo the bosses. 100 rotations will still be 50 hours....assuming the prices don't change it will still take 3 or 4 times that much to buy the items with the bounty currency. The only thing that's worse about the LS bounties is the 1 per day run....but total time/effort required was never 50+ hours....although it was spread across that many days.

Honestly the closest thing we had before is Doomsday. High feat count, normally still takes a bit of a group and yields a separate currency. DD is nowhere near as taxing though as he respawns fast and doesn't 'fail' if it takes you more than a few minutes to complete him, also the currency in DD was accumulated across all the content...not just killing DD.

Oh I agree, we've got Batcaves and FOS that could easily be revisited at this point with a new DLC, you could even go back to Paradox if you wanted, given how long it's been. I'm sure not all people would be so willing to agree with us though as there's also this incessant desire out there to absolutely never return to old environments like it's the height of taboo.

LOL, Get outta here, I was trying to make it sound immense

Swing and a miss....

Seriously, there is a reason why I have the 500 done on 5 accounts (accounts...not toons), because it's not that hard or time consuming. 10 min a day after hitting the vault/stabilizer for 2 months...solo and super easy. Locking in for 30 minimum, and having to find a group every day? Nope. I'd guess I'll never get the WV\Legion bounties done on more than the 2 accounts I have right now(still working on Legion), and I only have those 2 done because I ran them as a team when doing the WV bounties....so really it was 1.

For a long time people have been asking on the forums for big open world bosses to fight, like the old bounties mixed with what we had during Hands of Fate (open world bosses). People have also asked for a way to earn in game cosmetics/styles without coming out of pocket and/or dealing with RNG Loot Boxes. People have also for a long time requested for more to do/have a reason to stay logged on longer. This was their idea of combining all of those requests.

The reason why the idea has essentially failed is because players insist on getting everything as fast as humanly possible instead of pacing themselves, thereby causing the burn out they're feeling.

As I said, people wanted to earn their in-game cosmetics without bleeding out replays...they begged for a way to earn it by just playing the game. And as it has been made plainly clear, we will never get things without paying a price (usually time or replays). In this case it was a separate currency that could be earned with no lockouts. Making the amount "reasonable" by players standards would mean earned in a matter of hours, so they had to price things accordingly.

Likely it was done to "encourage" people to continue playing longer. If you're trying to get everything (or at least everything with feats attached) you'd be likely to play until you got what you wanted/needed. If you could just hoard marks at a higher cap you wouldn't feel so pressured to spend now in order to get the next item, instead taking breaks from that activity. It may sound ridiculous upon reading, but that's how people tend to behave, and they have the data that proves that behaviour.

Players were asking for reasons to play longer (along with the other things I pointed out before). They've pointed these things out.

Most people want longer , bigger raids no doubt about that the map is secondary what matters is the content in the raid how many bosses length of the raid,interesting mechanics,difficulty and how much effort that raid will have they way it the map looks isnt as important as the other factors that i wrote.

Fractured godsphere looks good but still less fun and exciting then Paradox which is such a simple desinged raid when it comes to how it looks and how small it is But the bosses look super cool in Paradox and the difficulty ,mechanics etc make it the best raid with Power core which in that raid all bosses except the first boss all were amazing well created and had mechanics and difficulty and were fun and exciting in the power core some people werent even able to defeat the adds before the first boss fight (in the expert version/elite basically) which was super interesting.

My ideal content format is 1 or 2 bounties (that are not grindy) in a nice open world, such as Atlantis. I would also be fine with a reused map as long as it's not the same *boring* parts of Gotham or Metropolis. I.e seeing the Moon or Kahndaq as an open world would be cool to me. I know this content is leaving a bad taste in people's mouths, but I think that open world is definitely a very important aspect of any MMO. It can also cater to more casual players or people who don't have the time to form a group and then successfully complete an instanced mission.

Then 2 raids. In general, I'm not even a huge fan of raids, but DCUO has some damn GOOD ones. They really should make better use of their talents. Flex a little. Why not continue making raids when you can make raids like Braniac Sub-Construct, Fellowship, Panopticon, Darkseid War Factory (some of my personal favorites), and even the Wonderverse raid and more.

1 alert. Alerts are probably my favorite content. Traditional dungeon content in an MMO is a must IMO.

1 duo or 1 solo. I think it's disappointing that there hasn't been a duo in roughly a year.


I don't know what the general consensus is, but I think Titans, Atlantis, Birds of Prey, Metal II, Earth 3, and Age of Justice are the best DLCs put out yet and they more or less follow the format I laid out.