Time to grant us the PVP feat points

Discussion in 'Gotham City (General Gameplay)' started by Thunderstrikke, Oct 18, 2020.

  1. Walvine Well-Known Player


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  2. Proxystar #Perception

    Haha, dude, I took an alternative course of action, I decided I liked the big yellow truck as well and would like to play with it myself later, so during story time, I buried it in the sandpit.
  3. Apollonia Dedicated Player

    I haven't followed this exchange you have going with BB, so I'm not taking sides here. I don't know what your exchange is about fwiw. And I typically like your posts so I don't want you to feel ganged up on Proxy, but I'll jump in at this point to say that this is in fact a false equivalency.

    Comparing PVP issues to PVE bugs is an apples to oranges comparison. PVE has some bugs occasionally but they're not usually gamebreaking (despite the forum tears at times). And those problems can usually be quickly patched relatively easily. While PVP's issue is that the design of it, and the whole system itself is fundamentally broken and to fix it you have to do a lot more than a quick bug fix -- it would need a team to sit down and redesign it from the ground up to plan out how it would play, progression, rewards and so on -- essentially building a new game. The work involved isn't remotely comparable.

    It's also it's disingenuous to reduce the counter point to "PVP iSn'T FuN sO gIvE uS aLl ThE fEaTs." That's not at all what anyone is saying. The Devs have been open about that part of the game being abandoned without any clear strategy to revamp it and especially support it for the rest of the life of the game. So, what people are saying is that, that part of the game is done, so, it's time to remove those feats and SPs, give them to everyone else OR commit to fixing PVP. Asking players to play a completely broken part of the game knowing it's not supported (so their efforts are a long term black hole of energy) just to get those feats is really bad game design and unrealistic and it's not a clever way to drive engagement at all.
    • Like x 1
  4. SugarHoneyIcedTeaMix Well-Known Player

    Seems like there are quite a few of y'all that need pvp feats. Instead of nuking pvp for the people that still enjoy it or beg for free feats why not divert that energy to building a pvp feat group. Im certain you can find 16 people who needs feats in 8v8's.
    Maybe instead of free feats they give pvp the legends pve treatment and feat counters are doubled/tripled, even throw in some bonus marks as well for people that need it. I'd definitely come back to get the moon and Australia feats I'm missing
    • Like x 3
  5. Proxystar #Perception

    You should probably read the entire conversation in order to see the flow and context of what was an ongoing dialogue between myself and Bumbling none if which involved any anomosity towards each other I might add.

    There was a discussion about subjective fun and the like and context surrounding how and why that evolved is probably helpful.

    With that being said, I'm sorry but I disagree.

    I believe people overstate the brokenness of PVP and what is simply an imbalance quickly becomes worded as broken and impossible, terms we're probably all guilty of using at times.

    PVP isn't impossible, it's just difficult at certain times because of more systemic combat and power imbalances in game.

    For example if you play as certain powers you'll have an easier time, if you come across certain powers you'll have a hard time, certain legends characters are easier than others, certain maps don't pop when queued.

    This might make win feats greatly difficult but not impossible entirely, this could be made easier though through targeted map promotions where people recieve additional rewards or bonus wins none of which involves just handing out feats.

    In addition to that other counter type feats like ring wars, diamond heists, bounty posters, knockouts and the like can simply get ground out even if slowly, but obviously numerous people just can't be bothered either because they simply won't or maybe they're too busy farming 500 murks, again none of this justifies a hand out.

    The pvp system isn't ideal, nor is it particularly balanced, it recieves minimal to no support, you're right, but that doesnt mean you strip it because pve players want a leg up with their pve experience without making any effort.

    I disagree with your assertion that I'm oversimplifying the request because the reality is numerous pvp feats are obtainable so there is a large degree of this isn't fun, i can't be bothered persevering, sentimentality behind the request, because should such a request be successful it would be easier than actually bothering.

    I also disagree with your assertion that is apples and oranges, it's really not, the point I'm expressing is that if we take PVE elite as an example, it's difficult content, it's not impossible, it's not for everyone, but it's difficult, there's numerous feats in elite and ultimately not everyone gets them because they're difficult, but you don't get to come along and say, I don't find elite, it's too hard, it's largely impossible for me, I want the feats given to me. That request would be asinine, would it not?

    Equally so PVP is difficult, it's hard, it's a grind but it's not impossible and it's not for everyone, not everyone it's going to be able to get the feats unless they try and try again potentially.

    That isn't apples and oranges that's a directly equal comparison.

    People need to start respecting PVP as a legitimate challenge, practice and get better, persevere despite the imbalances and they'll find most of the feats will come along anyway, rather than wasting their time complainig how earlier players supposedly had it easier, because it was better balanced, pvp were never easy and in fact in a way they're possibly some of the hardest feats in the game anyway because they're achievements against other players, not programned AI interactions with patterns, the variables always change.

    Handing out feats is not nor should it ever be considered the solution.
    • Like x 1
  6. SekretVillain Loyal Player

    Got on DC today, within the 1st 45 minutes, 500sp
    • Like x 1
  7. SekretVillain Loyal Player

    • Warning: The DCUO forums are for everyone. Please be respectful, constructive, and kind. Please welcome contrasting views and stay on topic. Do not insult or attack anyone.
    Barely any pvp feats? Last I checked I'm 67 / 101 feats for pvp, so perhaps you need to go back to school and relearn math?
  8. spikeat Well-Known Player

    You don't have any arena feats, which is a big bulk of the PVP feats. You don't step foot in there?
  9. BumblingB I got better.

    FWIW I'm missing less than 2 skill points worth of feats. This includes LL and Lairs.
  10. spikeat Well-Known Player

    Are there no one in the queue for Lairs? I think it registers as 3 wins when you beat an opponent, is that correct? Been a long time. Most PVP feat are worth 10 points so where you see it as approx. 2SP, I see it as 20 or less individual feats that you're missing.

    It would make sense if players were asking for feats from 8v8 or maybe even 5v5 as they are really hard to queue, but 1v1 and 2v2 queues still works. And players here are asking for feats for an entire category along with all feats from Last laugh and Home Turf.
  11. BumblingB I got better.

    Naw, I wasn't commenting I wanted the feats. I think the feats should be granted because PvP is basically abandoned content that is no longer played. But I think I've ran my fill of this thread. Until the next one.

    Also, they count as a win per each round. So if you win all three, that's three. I hated lairs, to be frank. There were a lot of elements in it that rubbed me the wrong way. Which is why I'm stuck at around 370 ish wins.

    My favorite maps were and always have been 4v4 safe houses. After a specific update they became unbearable, so I'm glad I enjoyed them while I could.

    If you are curious, I'm missing dueling, skin of your teeth, last for belle reve, lairs 500 and 1000, the two HQs and one other. All ones that were either you game it with trades or was after they stopped support on PvP.

    Funny too, I'm still on the Lairs showcase dev stream. LoL least favorite content.
  12. spikeat Well-Known Player


    IF you did wanted those feats, I know most players gamed dueling skin of your teeth with a friend or separate account. You can still get Belle Reve and lairs wins. I was surprised with Belle Reve cause I had taken a break and when I came back, I saw that I was missing PVP feats. I liked lairs because it was short and at the time it was the fastest way to farm marks. I would understand if you wanted devs to grant you the two HQ feats as those are hard to queue.

    I think there are mainly 2 groups in here. The first is the group of players who enjoys playing PVP for hours and run into imbalance issues. The second group are players who don't like PVP but want the feats and using this as a reason to get devs to award them feats. Second group actually makes up a large percentage of the population in game. If everyone part of the second group in this thread sat in the queue then there would be players in PVP. At the same time, I feel they have a fear of running into skilled players from the first group.
    • Like x 1
  13. SekretVillain Loyal Player

    I gave up on PvP probably 4 or 5 years ago, nobody in my league I was building was interested in PvP so I was either forced to LFG for randoms or just blind Q and take my chances. So I decided to go full PvE.

    To be fair though my 1st 3 years of dcuo, hell my very first character that was on my brother's ps3 fat I pvp'd more often then I did pve simply because I was new and before I had joined dcuo brother had gotten mr into pvp related stuff.

    But havent touched it since because it's not the kind of game play I enjoy typically. I'd rather play with friends to accomplish something against AI which in this game is the PvE aspect. So I've been PvE based since.
  14. SekretVillain Loyal Player

    And to be clear I've done every map type in pvp minus belle reve probably as it released after I stopped playing PvP
  15. Qwantum Abyss Loyal Player

    Fair enough, thats not the way i read the OP sorry. I read it as “just hand the feats out because its broke an theres no intention to even fix”. I didnt read anything about wanting handouts cause its not fun?
  16. Qwantum Abyss Loyal Player

    Except u explicitly did insinuate that you somehow objectivly and factually know that ppl just want free handouts.
    So yea, your words..........
    I was simply asking for the data to back up such an insinuation is all
  17. BumblingB I got better.

    Oh no doubt. I could have done lairs when the 2v2 was introduced and made it slightly more enjoyable. I chose not to. Which should not be confused with what I'm talking about now. That was my choice not to do it when I had the chance and if I lose 2 SP, also my choice. There isn't a lot of options for new players though. Also, I'm kind of in the camp that win trades is gaming the system. I actually personally know players that made a dummy account to do the duel feats. I could, I choose not to. And actual dueling was NEVER enjoyable and all the silly rules the players made up.


    It's not 2 main groups, it's a slider. Choose your threshold.
    |----------|
    Are you okay with handing them out?
    Are you okay with the PvP broken struggle?
    Do you feel that it's okay only if X isn't done?
    Do you feel it's never okay to adjust anything that is first implemented?
    Do you feel it's unjust to exclude new players?
    Do you feel that new players have to go through the same struggles older players had?

    I can go on and on with these points. I've read every comment in this thread and I personally know a lot of the ones against it are for something else that pertains to them from other threads. I know some of the posters in this thread just love to argue. I know that some posters in this thread are insincere or completely honest on their views. It does make for the discussion and ultimately it's the devs decision on this. Which right now is they choose to leave it as is. Which both sides think it's detrimental to the game. (PvP players think more development will help the game. PvE players want it accessible or removed.)

    So at the end of the day, what do we all agree on? It's interesting how players simplify views, as if distilling it will promote their points better. Like anything in the world, there isn't a black or white answer. You can't please everyone. You also can't hurt the majority to appease the minority either. This is entertainment and the moment it stops being entertainment is the moment it fails and people leave. We've seen it many times in the past when that happened.
  18. Proxystar #Perception

    No, I said people can be too quick to jump on a bandwagon, I did not at any time insinute or explicity state how many that might be, just highlighting that it's an all too common behavior pattern, there's no requirement for me to derive a number for you..You've clearly misunderstood the intent of the language used in my post and jumped straight to this "OMG show me the data" nonsense ;)
  19. Qwantum Abyss Loyal Player

    If i misread or misunderstood then my apologies.
    I just did a quick skim an no comment jumped out to me as a “jumped on the bandwagon to quickly” or a blanket “give me free stuff” so unless im still missing the intent or the point, i dont see why you’d bring it up at all unless to insinuate that At least some of usare just wanting free stuff and/or jumping on a bandwagon tho. The logic doesnt correlate. Now if ppl were just begging then sure, i’d be in your corner but sayin it in fact is insinuating it even that wasn't your intent.
    That said, i see what your sayin and im sure it happens but what i see happening in this thread (in general) is:
    1) suggestions on how to fix it so its run-able an we can go get the feats
    - as i understand it, devs have stated they have no intentions of fixing PVP making these suggestions moot
    2) requests to put the feats into CR skips for the various reasons
    - seems to be met with responses like “run the content and earn it” which is moot if we are Q’n an shouting and unable to run the content as is the reality thus we r seeking an alternative way to get the feats

    In any case, theres an issue with pvp an ppl just dont run it and maybe its just me but i am unable to get the feats because OTHERS arent doing it and thats not my fault but i am penalized. The penalty is i cant get the feats.
    There needs to be a fix (which the devs said isint gonna happen) OR an alternative way. The alternative way is what seems to be the request an discussion.
  20. Proxystar #Perception

    When the term "free stuff" is used its to outline the prospect that you recieve something without putting in the required effort or undertaking the necessary required task. Im not going to go through and highlight particular individuals within this thread that might want the feats entirely free, other than to tell you there are obviously people in this camp.

    You say people aren't begging? What else do you call what's going on here? People don't want to play pvp, they gave various reasons ranging from, it's broken, it doesn't queue all way to the extreme end of "I just suck and can't get them". The subsequent request to the devs being, "please just give us the feats"; you're entitled to disagree, by all means, but too me, that sounds at least a little like begging lol :)

    Let's for a moment also entertain the idea of including them in a CR booster, I'd say, for the sake of the argument, if they were to be included in a boost, why should that be a PVE cr boost? Cause that's what the current boost is.

    Are you prepared to pay for a seperate PVP Cr boost, that rewards just some of the feats similar to that of the PVE boost and then you actually play to finish the rest?

    Also I notice in your post you said make "run-able", how is pvp not run-able now? It's imbalanced, sure but not run-able, entirely untrue.

    It comes back to what I was saying earlier also, PvP is hard, it's frustrating and at times subjectively not fun, but the same can be said of elite content, the same can be said of the prospect of grinding hundreds of bounties.

    The game requires effort and at times perseverance, pvp is a grind just like pve, you're not going to get everything easily and you're certainly not going to get anything at all if you just don't bother.

    Also I just thought I'd point out since you raised the prospect of needing data, you say "no one plays pvp" how do you know that? The devs have never said exactly what pvp numbers are like in game, how many duels are undertaken etc, it's a great leap to just start saying "no one" ;)