DCUO's "Pay-To-Fun" Monetization and Warner Bros Games/Daybreak Relationship With DCUO

Discussion in 'Gotham City (General Gameplay)' started by Dragon Power, Oct 16, 2020.

  1. Dragon Power Well-Known Player

    Returning player, and after playing for few weeks I started noticing there's been some big changes. New studio and stuff. I noticed the other day while booting up the game that the WB Games logo flashes on screen with the other company logos. Everyone always mentions Daybreak this and Daybreak that, but what about WB Games? I'm just wondering how exactly and to what level WB Games is involved with DCUO, or still is. I tried looking on google/wikipedia but that wasn't any help.

    I have some questions. 1. Is the logo on the boot screen there because they helped launch the game and that is where the DC IP license comes from, or are they not involved anymore? 2. Or do they just help with advertising/publishing and at a larger capacity then Daybreak? 3. Do they have any say in what content comes out, what is in the content or involved in the content update development at all or do DCUO devs ask/answer directly to DC offices, bypassing WB Games? 4. And yes, I have to ask, if WB Games are still involved on a large level, are they the reason that the time capsules and artifact leveling are the way they are? Or is that soley up to Daybreak, or is that now like 90-100% up to the devs now that Dimensional Ink has been created?

    I ask because I really dislike the really high level grind there is in the time capsules/artifacts/augmentations unless you pay large amounts of money, and how RNG is tied to the artifact leveling (and I think episode augmentations too now? I'm not sure I haven't fully caught up yet), and just looking at all the angles of who is involved with the game's monetization. I've never heard of a game putting RNG in the leveling process. IMHO, and no offense, but the system feels antiquated like some old mobile game and also makes everything feel overly complicated when you could just simplify things. The system make the game Pay-to-Fun. Yes, you read that right. Not Pay-to-Win. Pay-to (have)-Fun. DCUO be a full time job trying to grind the artifact drops or sell enough stuff on broker to get the time capsule content and catalysts/nth metal caches.

    Take the RNG out and change Quarks to a universal marketplace and in-game currency. I am not proposing to remove Source marks or episode marks, these should stay the way they are. Take the Booster Gold, Time and Space, and Skeets Legendary vendors and change them all to Quarks. Put ALL the time capsule and artifact/augmentation stuff in these vendors (artifact/aug leveling stuff should still drop off enemies). Optionally, remove Time Capsules. Just use the new Quark vendors to release the new cosmetics. One important thing, make the Quarks earnable in-game if you have a MEMBERSHIP SUBSCRIPTION, 1 Quark per on-duty instance boss/open world mission reward/Vault. Why? It gives players that option factor and makes it fun. It makes it fun because the player who commits to the grind versus paying would feel like they are working towards something in doing so and keeps them coming back every month and paying that subscription, versus how it feels now, like some insurmountable wall unless you pay.

    Look, people want the things, and they will buy them. The in-game vendors are already there. Just put the stuff in there. This also gives higher value to having a subscription.

    And yes, I'm trademarking Pay-To-Fun, I hope I'm not offending the devs, just wanted to insert some humor into the situation. I genuinely care about the game and hope that the creation of Dimensional Ink can give them more freedom, and I'm hoping that they can turn this game around, and maybe find some compromise to the monetization and make the game fun again for the players.
  2. BumblingB I got better.

    To my knowledge, WB Games has no relation to DCUO outside of the licensing from WB which is now owned by AT&T.

    The creation of Dimensional Ink was them modularizing their studios. Apparently this allowed them to break out with more freedom, but they are still owned by Daybreak.

    As for the idea of using quarks for more, you should have seen how they first implemented it. It's much better now, because you can at least use marks to convert to quarks. I am down with more membership perks though.
    • Like x 2
  3. Trexlight Devoted Player

    As BB said, WB Games is just basically the go between with the License since it belongs to WB/DC. Everyone can always yell and bark at DiG or Daybreak for some rulings but when it comes down to it, its WB/DC at the end of the day that says yay or nay on their licensed products. Now of course I dont work for the company but been around here, talked with Devs at past Cons (miss you SOE Live) and just learned more about the industry talking with many other Devs at other companies.

    1. Their license and they are involved so they have the logo.
    2. As far as i see, its a license and go between.
    3. Devs come up with the ideas, WB/DC says yes or no. They may offer suggestions which is probably how we got the Atlantis Content that tied with the Movie. Maybe though but I dont see anything hurt from them offering ideas.
    4. WB Games doesnt affect this game in that way. It was certainly the Devs, in my eyes, that created the system and idea in order to create Revenue. Company structure may seem confusing but its better to see it as Daybreak is now the Publisher and DiG is the Studio. Same Devs, different name.

    Time Capsules you can get by buying and using the Broker. Prices are outrageous so there is also trading but I know folks who dont actively spend money on them and just buys from broker. But they are indeed the lootbox system that makes the money. The system is certainly better and of course has room for improvement. Artifacts are a pain. Thats all I'll say lol. Augments have a bit of monetization but its not really needed. Augments you're paying to just skip the leveling process altogether. Augments level pretty easily just playing. A much better system than the old Modding we had. Artifacts though at a certain point, definitely require spending money.

    We had some same ideas on Quarks in our Sourcewall article but yeah Quarks should be a special currency and gained by playing and even sold on the MP. The Marks conversion is nice and welcome update to it but we also have a min amount of SMs we can get unless we use Replay Badges. Hell Replays should be removed for sure in my opinion.
    • Like x 2
  4. Mepps Sr. Community Manager


    1. WB and DC is where the license comes from. We work closely with DC, and interact with WB and the franchise as a whole to make sure we're not stepping on anybody else's toes/them on ours.
    2. Marketing and publishing is all us, with some amplification from our partners when appropriate.
    3. Generally we lead. We present our ideas and plans to DC, and they approve, critique, or suggest changes. This is more collaborative than something like a pass/fail test. Sometimes DC will also ask us to support things they have going on, and we usually will.
    4. Gameplay stuff is us at Dimensional Ink and always has been. The core game is free, so there have to be extras that require either a lot of time and dedication OR some sort of monetary return. This is how we keep the lights on and keep the license. It is an existential balance between players not wanting to spend money and us needing players to spend money to continue.
    Pay-To-Fun is great. I can't imagine a better or more appropriate thing to pay for in a free-to-play or really any video game.
    • Like x 18
  5. zNot Loyal Player

    I personally dont think they should remove time capsuls aslong as people do not get a advantage by becoming stronger (stats) yes i know some Skill points are in time capsuls thats so minor that it doesnt really matter to me but i do think DLC specific augments shouldnt grand any buffs regarding the ingame content except more marks and other non combat related buffs and so on. They shouldnt grand any statistical buffs and no buffs in the Raid itself.
  6. Dragon Power Well-Known Player

    Thanks for the reply! That cleared up a lot of things. I was just hoping that in some way, now that the devs have a better designed and more independent studio, that they can find a better balance between the game's monetization and the player grind. Options is all I and some other players are asking for, and a universal Quark currency would provide this. The Wonderverse episode content is also the right path to giving the players some options towards the path to that balance, I love it! I hope the episode's content model will continue to be used, improved, and expanded upon.
    • Like x 1
  7. Iconic Simulation YouTuber

    A well written thread. Good job. Glad to see some good points for discussion and an open mind.

    Your informative replies are always appreciated when giving an look to better understand the inner workings of the game. Personally, honest clear replies like this are interesting and help build transparency for the game staff.

    Off Topic: Really nice pics of the 31 century Metro, really hoping you guys post a few more pics of it, before the DLC launch. It looks good.
    • Like x 1
  8. ALB Dedicated Player

    Artifacts are p2w. Especially if you want 160-200 Artifacts.
  9. TANK69 Well-Known Player

    And this is where you lost all your credits. Right now the subscription is not enough if you want to be relevant in the game, and you just made all the tricks to keep milking the playerbase instead of making the game better and enjoyable which can handle itself by the subs, like other successful mmo's. We still remember when you sold an entire event for episode for example...
    • Like x 3
  10. the solowing Steadfast Player

    Mepps or the developers didnt make this a thing, the top-brass made that happen. Also DCUO is a hybrid subscription system, however once Daybreak took over they slowly started incorporating mobile market tactics into it. The Time Capsules are literally timed exclusive lootbox items that you have to purchase for a chance at cool auras and styles, the Artifact system is a game of chance and if you don't want to risk it, you WILL be paying Daybreak for them designing a system that is made to frustrate you into paying. It Its a fairly subtle Gatcha game now. The subscription is mostly weighted to allowing you to access your cash, which is why years ago i suggested them redo the perks for a more balanced subscription. Daybreak simply made a 2nd promethean lockbox and kept it off the subscription benefits to get full profits out of all players with an without subscriptions.
  11. FlawlessTime Dedicated Player

    Can you guys put seals ingame at Constantines vendor thanks .
    • Like x 2
  12. Jafin 10000 Post Club


    I mean...what they actually did was repurpose an event, add additional playable content, additional characters and additional rewards and then sell it for half the price of a regular episode, but ok.
    • Like x 4
  13. Rejchadar Inquisitor


    Do you mean Deluge DLC? I was lucky, I then returned after a long break, and for me Deluge was completely new and, to be honest, for me it was the structure of that DLC that was one of the best, 1 solo, 1 duo (but with different terrains, bosses and different battle structures) , 1 alert (short (and this is a plus) but just like duo, with different terrain, bosses and combat), 2 raids. Good structure of the open world, 3 normal daily tasks and one mini Boss with a choice of several mini bosses, a weekly task to open, a weekly task for 4 people, a large weekly Bounty, and a weekly task to kill NPCs that can be done not only in the open world but also solo and duo ...
    • Like x 1
  14. Aduzar Light Dedicated Player

    In my opinion, this business model is increasingly "sulk" and DCUO is not doing anything about it. I find that DCUO is increasingly depriving players from being able to enjoy the game and even for HL players.
    At the moment, I wanted to come back to DCUO, but the artifact system is for me the last straw as far as the tolerance limit is concerned, it's not even "pay to win" anymore, it clearly becomes "pay to play" when you come back to DC and see this system, it offers a colossal demotivating factor, not to mention the MS to be obtained in the loot boox, so that I find it unacceptable and scandalous, because of that, the gambling business has become disgusting!

    The farm aspect of the DLC scares a lot of players away, before my break on DC, I was in a league that could do raids, now there are only 3 or 4 regular players left and still when they are connected, it's not at the same time...

    I am shocked to see how the game is more and more abandoned on the EU side. Seeing this, have ended up wondering, is it still worth playing...


    Change league would you tell me ? I would like to, but I find the same case everywhere and in the French league, there is practically nothing active in HL anymore ?

    I'm starting to believe that there's a will to kill the game and collect money until the end, so, is that the goal ? we'll never know, but one thing's for sure, that's what's been happening for a few years now...

    From my point of view, the "free to play" model is not at all up to date anymore. I think we should find another economic forum, which is more appreciated nowadays, for example, such as Guild Wars or Elder Scrolls Online, where I find their models really exemplary and certainly more appropriate for today's players, especially the one from ESO, where this one renews its "aesthetic" shop every month and which I find quite fair between paying and non-paying players!

    I liked the game a lot, despite the little freedom of play possible, but now, when I see how much it ends up falling into oblivion, I'm really saddened!

    I've been playing DC since 2013/2014) so I know very well what I see and I don't think I'm wrong with that background.
    • Like x 1
  15. Rejchadar Inquisitor


    In fact, you can farm quarks, yes, this is a long process, but there is such an opportunity, you can change 100 marks for 25 quarks. (You know? You can create 15 alts, raise them to level 30 and spend 2 minutes per day (half an hour for all) and in the time between 2 TC you will have 50 quarks from each (750 quarks every season, 3000 quarks per year ... half an hour a day ...) ....
  16. thedemonocus Loyal Player

    and if you do your stabilizer mission every day ,every 3 days you can open a time capsule and get even more quarks
  17. Rejchadar Inquisitor


    I think about this possibility, the author of the topic knows, I wanted to point out a possibility that most seem to have simply forgotten, or intentionally ignored ... besides, unlike TC, which gives a fixed number of open TCs per season, the exchange of marks for quarks depends only on how much effort you put in ...
    • Like x 1
  18. SekretVillain Loyal Player

    1 quark per 1 instance? Lol that's just as bad as spending real $$$, unless the items on quark vendor was lowered from 1000s to something more doable.