Test Discussion Balance changes to 2-Handed Weapons

Hey all,

This thread is to discuss TESTING of the following changes coming to PC Test (Thursday 7/23) and going live with the new Wonderverse episode.

• Doom Spin damage decreased by approximately 44%
• Clobber Damage Increased by 29%
• Mega Smash damage increased by 60% when fully charged.

Developer Notes:
Doom Spin has been over performing for a while now which was part of a bug. After being adjusted, Doom Spin should be more in line with other AoE abilities. Due to some of the potential loss of single target damage with this fix (not the intended use for Doom Spin), we've increased the damage of Mega Smash and Clobber that were under-performing to compensate.


-Batuba

Now precision has relatively no options now. There’s probably only two weapons that’s even remotely viable for competitive damage. Nerfing Precision’s best source of damage to the ground without buffing other weapon combos or artifacts just isn’t remotely fair at all. To actually compensate, precision should receive buffs to other weapon combos, or buffs to some of the dust collecting prec oriented artifacts we have. There’s plenty of prec arts that could use a buff, considering that the only one being used is venom wrist, and it’s not even better than grim so people are obviously opting for the better option.

Buffing a few prec arts might help with the weak state that prec will be in if this condition of the spec makes it to live. Venom wrist, GEM OF HORUS, and legionnare’s sparring ai could all use buffs

Sorry had to upload again without the sarcasm this time... wish video links didn't take up half the forum page.
Watch and decide for yourself.

Why not post a new video with rage doom spin and drop your beserks? You used 100% SC as nature, and nothing with your doom spin.

Now if you run the same rotation and drop 2 beserks with it. What kind of numbers are you seeing?

Apples and oranges.

There is nothing to decide here. You arent making a good comparison at all. Youre showing Doomspin on 3 targets to show Prec damage and then show a Nature Might ST. How about Doomspin in ST? Or nature in 3 targets? This is highly misleading emaple of whatever youre trying to prove.

Keep the testing consistent. Also showing nature just provides the issues we know with the Power and the Devs know about it as well. If you show Doomspin on 3 targets then your Might based example needs to be on 3 targets well. Thats how you make a comparison on Precision vs Might.

Because this is a 25% super they can be spammed infinitely with even a small amount of greens. Not to mention I wasn’t using scrap.

I did try the double berzerk and got 53k on single target. Still less and I don’t have the option to switch to healer form and use Gemini to give myself infinite greens and do 55k instead of 60k and that’s with 61k base might.

Correct I should have made it clear. The point of the vid was to show that doomspin on 3 targets does less than nature on 1.

It is apples and oranges, it is NOT the favorable comparison for Nature that you think it is.

He's also running *one* target with Nature, and *three* targets with Doom Spin, and getting the same 60K result.

Split Target output is roughly 200% of potential damage output on a single target. So Nature is actually doing about 2x what Doom Spin is, in Nature's case more because of the fact that it splits high on its primary mechanic - i.e. Poison, A.K.A. "the thing you always have active if you're running Nature".

In Nature's case, since Poison spread splits funny, if you're using EITHER poison spread mechanism to get all three DOT hits on multiple targets you're automatically doing between 25% and 66% ABOVE that 200% split cap for *every* DOT hit. You can verify this in about 10 minutes using *very* simple rotation tests.

Or, to simplify, his single target Nature output is *less than half* of what it would be against the 3 or 8 Target set. Doom Spin, on Live, right now, does 41,533 DPS average (7 tests, or roughly 3.5 straight minutes of play) over 30 seconds to a single target, if you've got 39000 precision, or "all maxed augments and 265 SP in Precision plus end of game equipment". This is with RSK and 160 Arts, Trans Strat and Venom.

It tests against the set of 3 targets, on live, right now, at an average of 80,162 DPS for 30 seconds after a five set average. Just about dead up 200% of the single target test.

This means the wolfman there's doing at least 106K with that rotation if you run it on a a three target set, and probably closer to 120-130 because "Nature splits high". Pretty sure the original clip displayed a second set readout for 60K too, but "at least it's been reposted" and "it still shows how broken Nature is".

If you use a Supply Drop, Trinket, AND Neo-Venom with that 39000 Precision setup, the single target for 30 seconds still tops out at 50K. NOW. On live.

Berserk isn't getting the Doom Spin to a 53K single target for 30 sustained seconds NOW, let alone with that nerf. Not to mention that split will automatically be higher on a higher target set because Nature hits everything *consistently*, and again, splits unreasonably high on its primary mechanic.

So yeah, that video demonstrates that Nature is broke AF.

Mega smash should get a higher buff. The amount of time it takes for it charge and the high possibility of getting countered warrants a higher damage increase. Make it between 80%- 100%

Will only say this once as it's off topic. Nature as well as other over performing might abilities are also definitely on my radar and are not immune to changes, however, its a little more complex to balance and will take more time. We are looking to do a lot more balance tweaks as we launch new content.

That being said, if we do not keep "on topic" we will be forced to shut this thread down and discontinue further discussion. Please keep this thread open to actual testing of the changes.

44% is a lot however if that’s the spot batuba feels the weapon should be performing at and other nerfs match up to similar results in damage then I have no real complaints. My precision alt is about to take a L though but I’m cool with it if there truly is more balance upcoming.

Nature wolfs and gorillas are about to run wild I hope that nerf plans on coming sooner than later or complaints will sky rocket. But that power definitely needs fixing for sure.

I agree, certain red flags are raised and taken to the Dev’a in this case Batuba, I am sure that it’ll be looked at wth if Batuba thinks that it needs the nerf or buff it’ll be done. Sure hope that nature is next, by the looks of it Batuba is going straight down the list and Nature could be next.

I'm not a tester but I do wonder if it's a good idea to lay down what you guys think the baseline is. What other weapons/WM combos should it be on par with. That way people know what to test.

So some questions that would be helpful if answered:

• How is Doom Spin comparing to other AoE abilities/rotations for precision? Is it comparable?
• Is the change to Mega Smash/Clobber noticeable, I'm curious to see player input on this.
• Will players gravitate to different combos, or stay using the same? If so, which ones and why?

To answer one of your questions
I will switch to Dual flurry mastery (One handed/ weapon mastery).
.also

Flurry mastery (rifle)

Thanks Batuba,

Posts like this are very helpful as it tells us what you're looking for.

Doom spin does less than explosive shot DW weapon mastery. Less than the brawling WM. Shield, staff and doomspin are probably pretty close. The issue with this in "my opinion" is that doomspin is melee and the others are ranged.

The change to mega smash/clobber is noticeable, but not worth using due to the cast time and the fact that it still does equal or less than the range wm combos.

Brawling or DW mastery.

Didn't one of the green people say that the damage is only more by the amount of time it takes for the move to last?

Doom Spin as far as damage being nerfed this much, doubt it will be viable for scoreboard chasing.
Given that there will be no real CC benefit, I doubt many will use Smash/Clobber
I will probably look for another combo that has as close to the CC effect of Doomspin with the most damage, given how Trolls CC has been nerfed to the ground, and counters don't work any more against an NPC (for the most part) gotta do something for CC so, I may stick with it if I can't find anything better but Clobber / Smash... hard pass. You'll get wrecked...

Batuba,

PRECISION:
Basically thers no way to play as precision Dps , I don't think the prec DPS need to be nerfed as much.
Obviosly the DWFS was over perfoming comparing with the others powers in ST Damage. the nerf was good, balanced
the THDS damage decresed 44% making not a competitive damage.
the TWDS has a risk of playing as melee in boss fights that should be compensated as all melee loadouts, thats why i think that 44% is too much. at least in (3 adds /10 sec) should do 70k dps if got all gear with right mods , artfacts 160+

Might :
All powers with a combination of artifacts and right loadout could be competitive! in melee
and thats why people switched to prec , to do more ST damage

MIGHT RANGE LOADOUT:

Range loadouts don't do a consistent Damege.
the problem is ther's powers that don't have a range loadout , they do tha same melee DPS as range.
And for example the RAGE power as range loadout don't have a consistent DPS comparing as melee.
Basically some powers need a buff in a Range attack.
im my oppinion any Tank role powers don't have a consistent dps comparing with the DWFS

SMALL CHANGES:

NATURE:
The power don't really need to be nerfed, nature has a high cost SC to play as a pro player
to play as nature you need to have at least the Eye of Gemini or scrap 160+ and not everyone knows how to play as Nature to do a high damage.

The problem of the Nature is the SC , if you don't have SC you can't do damage.

ATOMIC:
atomic need a power cost lower in combos atacks.( in dps)

WATER:
Need to buff the base powers , only SC do damage in water.

RAGE:
need to buff the range powers.


ty batuba