Devs, We Have to Help New Players

What you're talking about would be things that I think could be covered in a terminal stop on the HQ tour. A lot of that is just info, and much of that info can be found in the power descriptions themselves so it'd just be a matter of directing players where to look.

But what a lot of people are asking for is a nuts-and-bolts, "this is how you do it" tutorial, and there's just enough differences between those powers that I don't think a one-size-fits-all approach would work. For someone to really learn how to tank or heal they need to be in a situation where they are actually performing those tasks, and the differences in mechanics among the powers just introduces too many variables to have to account for, in my opinion.

There's also the detail that making such a mission would mean it being an escort mission of sorts (probably my least favorite kind of mission), which also means depending on NPC AI for such a mission (longstanding mistrust of video game AI in general lol) and to me that's just a recipe for player frustration in the making.

Thanks for the response, and I hear what you're saying. But the point is, more needs to be done in game to teach the support roles. A suggestion like mine was an idea... a starting place, which is where all change begins. As for implementing an idea like this, I'd leave it up to the game designers to decide whether something like this were possible and how to do it. As for debating whether something like this would be a part of the mandatory leveling process or an optional side "mission"... that's a little beside the point, isn't it?

As for your "optional" argument. I'm sorry, but I don't agree with you. There are many aspects of this game that can be considered "optional" (meaning a player does not NEED them to enjoy the game) that the devs spend plenty of time on: Seasonals, Time Capsules, Auras, Materials, Collections, Investigations, Briefs.... need I continue?

Whether or not a player chooses to play the damage role or the healer role is completely up to them. But the fact is support roles are crucial for end game content. A group will not survive a raid without them. So anything the game could implement that would teach the players more about them and how to better play these roles would not be considered a waste of time.

Hmm..

I think that a higher CR requirement for the event version of new content would be helpful as well. I have said this before, why are characters below level 30 allowed in event content when they dont have access to all of their powers? The Mechanical Vendor makes it easy to bypass the leveling rough spots, so the devs could ramp up the CR requirement to 70 or even 100 to enter any new event content.

Like with most MMORPGs, the game follows the RPG trinity - Tank, Healer and DPS.

For Tanks, the tutorial is easy. Just teach about bubbles, mitigation and aggro.

For Healers, its just burst heals vs. HoTs and maybe power management.

For DPS, its a no brainer.

For Controllers, I view them as optional. There to make life easier, but not really essential.

Any nuances among the different powersets is not something that can be covered in a tutorial. That comes with experience.

If anything, they should just use the final boss on the Brainiac ship to teach about your combat role based on your chosen powerset.

Aren't Collections, Investigations and Briefs part of content?

Don't the completion rewards go towards the ultimate end game of collecting Base Items and Styles?

I don't think they're optional.

The event version is more of a taste of things to come for new players.

At least with event content you can actually go in and practise your role duties, rather than have to go into older content only to be carried just to meet the minimum CR with zero knowledge of your role.

Hmm..

I humbly disagree.

I do not understand how a player can practice their duties if their character is under CR 30 and does not have access to most powers to practice with. Event versions of new content enemies have different mechanics than the lower content enemies and some of those new mechanics require players to know those older ones so they can adapt quickly and with less pain.

If you are a new player, you will have zero knowledge of your role(s) in event content and there is no guarantee of practicing anything, because that new player can be carried through as well, especially if that character only has about 5 powers to use.

Lower-leveled characters' stats are buffed in event content so there is no way of knowing if your character is performing as it should "at level". This is misleading, because when a character is past the event level and does raids at normal level, many of those buffs disappear and the player is left wondering why their character keeps watering face plants.

In my opinion, the event version is just nice gesture from the devs to allow players with lower characters to participate in end game content; it is NOT a taste of things to come because, for example, Normal Mode has more enemies, different mechanics required from the same enemies, added environmental hazards, and the boss mechanics change a bit as well and/or a new boss is added. Many players who reach Normal Mode CR continue to play Event Mode until they save enough coins to get better vendor gear so they can play Normal Mode more effectively.

The event version usually gets watered down a bit when it is newly launched because many players complain that it is too hard. Think about it; the event mode is too hard, even when the stat boosts are there. In my opinion, that is a hint and a half that the Event Mode CR requirement is too low and needs to be raised.

Like I said earlier... for those that are regular players of MMORPG's, sure... it's not a big deal. But because this game is based on the DC Universe, many players also come just for the IP, meaning this is their first exposure to a MMORPG. As to what degree, or how that could be best implemented into the game that is up for debate, but at least we can all agree that more is needed to better prepare players for support roles.

And as for those things being optional.... yes, they are. As in, if you don't complete your briefs, collections and investigations are you not able to play this game? Of course not. Many of us will complete them to achieve the feats that give us SP to make our toons stronger, but the fact is they are not mandatory.

While I can understand how characters should have more than the 5-6 powers to play with, you hardly get any practise in earlier alerts and raids under normal mode.

All you need is a single CR 250-300 and you don't have to do anything. They practically carry the group.

You hardly ever find an on-level PUG to run content, unless you intentionally go out of your way to make one, which would take forever.

At least in event versions, you see the health bars move and notice the difference in gameplay.

Whether the person behind the controller/keyboard wants to learn the power roles and mechanics is another matter.

Unless you are absolutely new to gaming, everyone would know of tanking, healing and DPS'ing.

Whether you come from FIFA, Counterstrike or Assassin's Creed, the concepts are all the same - attack, defence and skills.

And well, feat grinding is mandatory up to a point. I don't think you could get by with just 50-60 SP could you?

I can understand how you'd look at the mandatory aspect I brought up as being a bit beside the point. But in many of the threads like this one that have popped up over the years, far more often than not you get some folks insisting that players MUST learn both roles for their character and that a tutorial for non-damage roles should be mandatory, even though the devs have never said players must learn both roles. So for me, it's not beside the point and was something I felt should be brought up.

And I'm going to stand by my optional point of view, namely because it's never been a mandate from the makers of the game. You do raise some valid points, but many of them hold true if someone wants to play their character optimally. And while there's nothing wrong with that approach, you don't need to optimize your character to play and enjoy the game. Players can choose how they wish to play their given characters, where some will only concentrate on one role (some go damage-only, others focus on their non-damage role) while others will go with learning and playing both roles.

Part of it may be due to how I play (tend to go it alone most of the time) but learning both roles for my characters isn't needed for me to enjoy playing the game. I know that it would optimize my characters and be helpful for other players on the occasions I do group up, and that I risk potential ostracization (under the worst of circumstances) if I choose not to run in a non-damage role. But it's not something I HAVE to do.

My characters, my account, my choice.

i agree with you 100 percent

i started streaming on twitch like 3 weeks ago, and i've been getting a lot of people that have no idea how to level. and the difference between the regular level and Combat rating is, its not explained in the game really that well. you just kinda learn from playing and the experience. i help as much as i can. but the F2P players. really are having trouble. frankly i don't know what to tell them to do besides do the Event dailies and what is available. cause i don't know, I've been subbing since 2012 when i started, i know, as veteran players, we don't think of how it is for new players, at least i don't all the time. the only thing i really know is, when i was F2p for like 3 weeks. i learned back in 2014 you could get to tier 4 for free. and its pretty much a permanent trial unless you buy the episodes or subscribe,

i tell everyone that is f2p to subscribe cause. its the best experience your gonna get, and being a MMO, the F2P model only works so far, i know this is kind of another subject within the subject of the thread but. i just wanted to mention, F2P /premium players, need to be able to hold at least $100k, to $ 200k. $2k is not even worth holding money, and the escrow thing is laughable. that should be accessible through in game means. but these are whole conversations that need to happen. at some point or be addressed, but who knows if they will be.

MMOs have always been best when subscribed to. i still believe that. but not everyone has the choice to sub, doesn't wanto , or can't cause of the money. i dunno. i just wanted to give my thoughts on the developers helping a bit more and add my 1 cent

Yeah providing more clarity in the feat system would definitely help...even adding flashing arrows that point players in the direction they need to go in to find the feat...sure beats having to rely on youtube

As far as a player's choice to play whatever role they choose, I agree with you 100% As far as I'm concerned, to get through my solo missions I need to be a strong DPS. (I think the Metal 1 gateway solo mission is a perfect example. My league-mate is a pure troll... gear, augments and artifacts... and had a hell of a time getting past that one.) Therefore all my gear, augments and artifacts are leveled up that way. It's been a long enough grind to get them to a competitive level. My gaming time and financial resources are limited so I really don't have the luxury of getting both roles up to max level. So, instead of dividing my resources leveling between both, I just focus on one. I'd rather be exceptional at one thing then mediocre at two. Some may argue that I'm being selfish, but that's my choice.

But on the same I've been in raids with people who are playing their support role and have no idea of the basic "know how's" of their role. And I don't mean power specific mechanics, I mean role basics. For example, during a raid a prospective troll had no idea that their role entailed - de-buffing enemy attacks and defense, buffing ally attacks or the fact that their shield had a de-taunt ability. They just thought they dumped power. People in the raid are yelling at this individual to do all these things and he is basically clueless. And I remember thinking at the time... "Well, how is he supposed to know all of this? I don't remember anywhere in the game really laying it out in detail like that."

But the point is, it should. These support roles are so crucial to end game content and players shouldn't have to rely on things such as YouTube or the forums to learn how to properly play them.

Just my opinion.

You're assuming too much... really... you are. From reading your various responses I can see you are the type of individual that has a hard time seeing things from a perspective other than your own. There are plenty of games in the world that do not utilize the concepts of a "healer, tank or damage dealer" in the way that Role Playing Games do. And again, this is the type of game that will draw all types of individuals due to the IP.

Also, regardless of whether or not YOU think a person could just get by with 50-60 SP does not change the fact that those things are optional, meaning it is not mandatory for a player to do those things to play the game. A person could completely ignore those things and continue on their way. Would they be competitive? That is a completely different story. But the fact is, they could still play the game.

And that's where other players should be stepping in/stepping up. They're right there and can lend a hand right away. And yes, you have those who don't want to listen AND those whose idea of teaching starts out with something along the lines of "You're doing it wrong you nimrod," neither of which makes things easier. But it CAN be done.

Well, unless someone's of the "it's not my job" mentality. Then it won't ever be done, and the problems will continue to persist.

And no, that's not a jab at you or anyone in particular, it's just a pet peeve of mine showing through.

Yes that IS where other players do step up. And that IS why players NEED to resort to things like the forums and YouTube to learn how to properly play the game. But the point is...again... that is not how it should be.

Obviously we could end up going back and forth with this forever. So we will have to agree to disagree.

Complain about what helping? I've done my fair share of helping randoms, hell I still help random people to this day because half if not of the people in this game dont know their *** from a hole in the ground.

People for years as long as I've played have asked for tutorials to be implemented no? Why havent they been done in the 9 years of this games life?

You know tutorials to show what x power does as heal/troll/tank, and describe what each roles purpose and stat does and how it effects allies. They wont do it because that might mean putting money back into the damn game. Like they should of been doing these 9 years.

CR Skips are a direct result of the crowd that refuse to be clamped in content below their CR. Hence, only feat-hunters and new players play old content.

But stat-clamping is only bad if there are no rewards. People play the seasonals day in and day out without complaint about clamping. Because there are rewards. And the rewards are trivial compared to the rewards from content at CR.

CR Relevancy is the issue. And CR relies on the gear you have acquired. A lot of people are happy to take off gear to give early game players a better experience - and to let them learn mechanics.

But you can't open up all content to everyone with full rewards at no cost.

CR Relevancy exists for a reason. To prevent inflation on Source Marks. If it were possible to farm every Solo and Alert, every day - and every Raid weekly for full SM rewards... then SM would become worthless. At endgame you would have ~25 Solos, then ~36 Alerts. Daily. Plus ~36 Raids weekly. Leaving Source Marks as essentially worthless.

Asking for CR Relevancy to be removed to help new players is not the answer to new players. You'd simply make gear costs higher and therefore hurt new players, since they could no longer afford to progress.

Have you not learned anything from the broker? The more money there is, the less it is worth.

Incidentally - the game has already taken care of this by offering you ONE SM PER BOSS for running content out of CR Relevancy. In my understanding of the SM economy, that is GENEROUS - comparable to sub-bosses in endgame Alerts. The one fix I would add to that is either increase the Marks Feats, or introduce scaling League Hall bonuses. Or find other rewards (like the old Exobyte Clusters). Currently I have no use for Prestige boxes because my League hits it's weekly limit about halfway through Thursday. Likely because everybody else also dumps them the minute the server restarts, since they are useless at any other time.

Have you bothered to make one? They exist. There are six or more people on this forum that do exactly that.

If you want to know why Pro7, Sony / SOE, Nintendo and Daybreak have never produced a tutorial for this game... That is a mystery. To you.

I shall explain at length, if you like.