Work In Progress GU103: Tank Balance

You act like i dont now that kiting was there since day 1... it wasn't abused like it is now, due to the fact that the power cannot actually tank a certain boss effectively, lol you can tank prime barely kitting when prime was at its prime, you want to bring history of raids that you didn't have to kite as much as you do now? it isn't hard, wave unless tanking spider, throne e, gome, only time we had to kite then was a clear one shot, not every single move like our gear was made out of paper, oan SM, unless clear one shots or certain bosses hitting like trucks at higher rounds not 24/7, we had more room for error cause we could tank like intended, not break the power so we run like our heads are cut off.

Again am not saying lets all face tank, but lets all not play the game of tag cause we can't tank.

Tank Balancing should allow tanks that weren't in sm to be in sm, and the ones that made it to sm fixed enough to kite less not kite spam because my shield isn't really a shield, or my immunity isn't a immunity because what your saying is tanking is kiting when it isn't, its a surviving tool being abused compare to what it use to be before Stat Revamp

Same could be said for every power set then. Why do rage and earth get to have their playstyle be strong and have the ability to use iconic and movement shields? Atomic is not a shield tank!

Agreed. Besides winter ward the other shields are a joke.

For ice we have winter ward. The other shields are obliterated almost as fast as they are activated. And the shields do not taunt well in end game content whatsoever. I've watched some of your videos and I know that you don't mind the kiting style. I however, do not like kiting as a tank but have had to adopt that play style to stay alive and keep the aggro off my group. I like being in the face of the enemy going toe to toe. So I am with the general consensus in saying keep rage as is and bring the rest of the tanks on par with. Let tanks be tanks.

Read the first 5 lines of text from what Batuba said in his post, think about what it actually means, and then get back to me i'll wait. I can't be responsible for the fact that there are alot of people missed the comprehension of what he was saying. "per Batuba's instructions only" that's ironic

Players are pouring out the hopes and dreams to Batuba about tanking when they aren't even following the instructions he himself outlined. Keep the feedback within the confines of what is being adjusted and you'll have a good time.

I don't think you want to use PBG as your example lol, only ice could tank the tentacles, earth was terrible on release and atomic and rage didn't even exist yet. Oh and also the best point is that during DLC 3 and PBG you actually didn't even need a tank to complete the runs and groups were better off not even running a tank. Once again your history is fuzzy cause in Dox unless you were doing the EO feat in the tunnels you had to kite the Ravager up and down the tunnel so that he wouldn't enrage from standing in his healing pools for too long of a duration. ToDe you couldn't kite because there wasn't even any room to do so, you had to keep the boss and adds away from the essence which is why for most of the time you ran 3 TANKS LOL and why rage was one of the only tanks that could consistently take the adds because there was 16+ of them and kiting wasn't an option so you had no choice to sit and take dmg which is why all the other tank powersets struggled with that. GoMe and the other raids before stats revamp we had Fortified Blocking which was the only reason because of the 80% damage mitigation, now we don't have anything like that.

The thing is we don't even need to play tag, its more because the community can't tank or forgot how to tank without man-bat rolling or running for their life, because it's not even necessary. There will be encounters where we have to kite but that like I said before will be due to the special abilities or the combos of the boss. The other times you see tanks kite like LB SGE is more for add management than needing to face tank. You can just sit there with all the adds no problem but the waves keep spawning on the opposite site of the room so you are kiting so you don't get stuck in the pile and can aggro the new set, nothing about survivability. You can face tank nearly every encounter currently, outside factors like: a) healer skill in the group b) lag c) artifacts/gear/sp d) personal tank still all come into play and contribute to kiting over reliance. That's largely not a tank balance issue, unless like I said the devs were rebuilding core mechanics from the ground up with immunity and breakouts, which they aren't going to do at all.

Would love to see a video of anyone other than a rage tank face tanking PCe last boss.

Hello Batuba,

In addition to what I suggested earlier in this thread (GU103: Tank Balance), I also wanted to mention something else.

I mentioned that I did like most of the changes/direction you are going with but also offered some suggestions that I believe will improve/balance all tanks as a whole.

What I wanted to add to the side note in my previous post was that instead of reducing fires only shield "immolation", perhaps you can improve on its healing abilities. I honestly would prefer "burning determination" and "stoke flames" to receive some increases instead of changing our only shield, which definitely has its use.

If the healing increases aren't enough and you would prefer a semi absorption/mitigation effect, which I can definitely see its use/benefit then perhaps adding that effect to "burning determination" (since it already has a shield like animation) or "fire soul" our mechanical buff would be a better option. Though fire is mostly about healing, so I would prefer healing improvements to be looked at first.

If the semi absorption is added to "fire soul" it could activate a 6-12 second duration buff effect, once "fire soul" is at its' maximum. This way players have time to refresh it if their "fire soul" starts to drop in between fights.

I also believe power wasn't much of an issue for fire, sure up front cost can be quite a bit but its cool downs are quite long that by the time it was ready again the player has regenerated enough power to use their abilities again.

To combat the up front cost perhaps a 10-15% power reduction from "fire soul" and the absorption can be added here at 20-25% (30-35%, if healing increases aren't done/enough and prefer the semi absorb mech). If possible add the blue flame animation from AM days that many players have requested. That would definitely be a fitting animation for "fire soul". Make it activate once you hit max "fire soul" and last for 6-12 seconds, which can be refreshed each time "fire soul" reaches its max.

(Side Note: An additional suggestion that was somewhat mentioned here was the possibility to have all tanks "Single Target Taunts" be able to pull (pull tag, activates refractor buff) a single target and either stun it or knock it down after being pulled in.

I believe this would be a good addition for all tanks, instead of having to rely on lasso the iconic power. Their own power would be a better choice, not only theme wise but as a power interaction application for some as well.

All tanks already have a multi pull pi/cc, so having a single version will definitely be helpful in covering some missing effects/elements when having to swap them out).

Most of this was about some improvement options for fire with an additional suggestion for all tanks. Hopefully this and my previous post suggestions can be considered during this balance evaluation on the tank powers. Thank you for your time and dedication.

Sincerely: Brav

I quit playing 3 years ago. Occasionally I log in because I just don't wanna abandon something I've already invested thousands of dollars in in the first 8 years. But since we're FINALLY on the discussion of tank updates here's my 2 cents:

Earth is lacking:
*"usable while controlled" abilities.
* bring back the old "reinforce" mechanic. Allow Earth tanks to absorb the damage of the lowest health group member
* Give some reasonable supercharges. The ones Earth has right now just don't seem worthy. How about a group mud shield or gravel shield that doesn't restrict movement.

The Tanks (Fire,Ice and Atomic) in my league do it regularly.

I agree, I was about to say the same thing. If rage is really good, other tanks should be in range with rage. Also Ice needs to get back their shields they took away.

Ice seems fine but if anything just make reflection stronger

I can confirm that this is a fact I’ve run with this league. Know a couple of them allen, icy etc etc. I put you guys in the Obsidianchill category y’all have some of the best on server that y’all run with it’s kind of like a cheat code In the sense that y’all can get away with completing things in ways the average elite player would fail to do so because you set the bar higher in terms of skill capability

Yes pce can be face tanked (in the right hands) and with the proper support group. These are extremely rare cases though how many leagues on the game can actually say they can do it with these powers. You’d only need one hand to count the amount

To me though that just means get good or rather just get better at perfecting the role. As I said before tanking isn’t for everyone let alone face tanking as a solo tank in certain elite raids

You are not in a position to ridicule the posts or suggestions of anyone here Mr knows everything. If the devs think a feedback here isn't constructive they will just not consider it or reply with a good answer...
...
First this isn't a game you can swap powers based on content, you have to pay for it and not only the respec token but also for the new artifacts you need. If not all tanks can do content in a way players enjoy (Not saying enjoy=using heat vision or spamming sonic cry, but being able to turtle, face tank, kite in some situations and in other situations play a lot more agressive) then there is a balance issue. I don't expect the devs to make all tanks equally good, but I expect them to make all tanks enjoyable for the majority of the players and for a bigger variety of playstyles.

Not everyone wants to pay to change powers in order to enjoy the game because a minority of the tanks (maybe there are like 100 elite level players currently playing?) can beat elite content facing the boss or using a dance emote for the entire raid due to 500 sp healers with all op and elite gear and maxed out artifacts they bought with irl money.

Not being able to face tank or play more aggressive on some occasions without having everything maxed out is a major no-no for me. I really enjoy this kind of playstyles and wanted them to be doable for all powersets. I'm not asking for a 1000% defense buff so I can afk or put a rock on my shift my button and go pee, but I want to enjoy the game without needing to kill myself and my healers or farm things like there is no tomorrow. Remember that most of us can't count on the top 10 stat healers/dps or the best and shiny leagues in the game, the majority just use LFG to form groups or have friends who play on a regular, more casual way.

And just a last note for other guys around here: At this point it looks like some people here are complaining about the players who want tanks at rage level because they need to feel special about themselves beating content in a game that has no pro scene... Don't worry though, it's not like if they buff tanks everyone will start beating SM round 30 (If it ever comes back), y'all can have that, just let the others have fun with their playstyles. IDC if your leaguemate who grinds this 18 hours a day every day of the week and spent over 20k/month on replays and items to boost artifacts/augments for the past 10 years can face tank or turtle with every powerset, the majority of the players can't.

The changes being asked here are legit, you may disagree with them, but not disrespect them or speak like your opnions are superior.

If a tank needs Hard Light shield to survive then it obviously needs adjusting. Feel free to remove HL Sheild to see if the tank balance is legit

I agree with that statement

I Clearly stated, you didn't have to kite 24/7 on the older raids... not, i can face tank all old raids before stat revamp, but sure get technical i guess

Please please please bring back Bitter Winds as a juggle and shield! That alone would make me tank again. And make aure its as strong as it was pre - pre revamp ;p


But seriously, please?

Go one further and get rid of personal dampening field and the movement mode shields

Or tweak Brick so that he heals a % of everything the Tank heals, the same way he takes a % of everything the Tank takes.

From the Healer's position, my ally heal is not the most power efficient power I have, and is not a priority heal prepared to restore a large chunk to Brick all at once. Brick takes a bunch of burst-y damage, but has to be healed via Heal Over Time ticking. There are definitely times where, through no fault of mine or the Tanks, I could easily melt through my entire power bar trying to keep Brick up and it's like putting out a housefire by spitting on it.

Either Brick needs a lot more health, a lot more mitigation, or he needs to benefit a lot more from the healing. Because right now, he's less of a Brick and more of a Styrofoam Block.

If you're going to do that, then Amazonium Deflection needs to also go.