Test Discussion GU97: Catalyst Consolidation

Hmm...

Since you plan to stay the course with keeping the new catalysts account bound and available on a vendor, will you consider doing the same for Seal of Preservation?

Ok lets Compromise Mepps... You can remove CATALYSTS from broker in exchange to REMOVE CR RELEVANCY WINDOW!!
I would LOVE TO HELP lower cr rank up and reminisce older content, but in this current state, its not worth my time as an end game user. Its literally been my suggestion in my signature for the past 2 years.. Lets Push for NEGOTIATIONS..

Trade for trade! You can have ACCOUNT BOUND CATALYST -------------> REMOVAL OF CR RELEVANCY!

DEAL?

PS... CAN YOU FINALLY ADD COMMAS To TRADE and BROKER PLZ!!! Like seriously!

These are trying times my friends.

Personally I never really used the broker to buy catalyst caches or sell them (except just 1 or 2 maybe) but I understand where everyone is coming from and this change is certainly a very unpopular one. With all these changes, I have no idea how any player would be able to get an artifact up without spending any extra money on it. 3% breakthrough chance? That's 97% chance to lose about 280 marks worth of catalysts, with no good way to earn them back without grinding for quite a while. And that's just one artifact out of 3 for 1 role, 6 for 2 roles. That is just crazy and if they don't get it up, the others that do are going to judge them for their low artifacts and consider them a burden on the group.

I don't think most players come to this game expecting to pile way more money on top of their subscription if they even were to subscribe.
I myself am not a big spender and tend to avoid games like these, I'm only around thanks to a bit of luck and systems like these (among quite a few other things) make it quite hard to really want to stay.

This is great

Sorry, but this all sounds like a cop-out. Much like how seals are still untradable, it pigeon holes ALL users into (eventually) spending RL money for things they could otherwise earn or buy in game. You are perfectly fine with the idea that cats(via source) can and will be bought from the MP...so why not the in game broker? That's the long and short of it. And if getting a 'gift' of a cat 3 or 4 times a year is the price of getting them tradable again, please....keep your gifts.

Kudos on condensing the system to 3 cats. You could have stopped there and had a straight up win with your users.

Reinheld

Oh.....they have a perfectly good way to fix that issue....spend money on seals.....don't want to do that, there is another perfectly good way around it....spend money on cats in MP, or (assuming they don't come back after the update) buy the source to buy the cats.

All it takes is money.....



Reinheld

I was linked to this from the Developer Discussion version of the Artifact Consolidation topic.

The whole thing about there being a small number of catalsyts for sale, and being sold is not true in my experience. I will list them whenever I need money, and they sell like hotcakes. People who don't want to spend real money, or grind out Source Marks, themselves will buy them, and there's a strong market for them. They've been selling at $600K each EASY. I can even go as high as $700K+ sometimes. There is definitely a demand for them. There is still a need and demand for on-broker catalysts.

Before, people with limited time to play and funds (can only afford their subscription, for example), were able to use what Source Marks they could get with their time, and then also sell their base-item, collection, or style drops to get some money to then buy the catalysts they couldn't get through Source Marks. Now they won't be able to do that.

I will continue to play the game and see how this whole thing affects my play and progression, but for now, my spending will be limited from $55-60 a month, to $15-20 (and eventually to $0 if I just can't find a way I can make money to catch up and get what I need from the broker while enjoying the game). I strongly urge those who disagree with how they're removing options to progress without having to spend way more time and real-world money to do so. At the same time, if you like this kind of change, support it. It's your money.

If I'm in the minority, and the majority people don't want there to be a way to turn play-time into some extra in-game money, as well there be an option for those with limited time and money to still progress in their artifact leveling... then so be it. I hope the game will continue to provide enjoyment to a lot of people. ^_^

EDIT: I would like to still thank Mepps and the team for communicating these changes (but and ProxyStar for really bringing them to light), and taking the time to give us their reasoning and side of things. Even though I disagree, I can still appreciate the openness of the information.

I'm going to play devil's advocate here.
I get that everyone is upset that these catalysts being made account bound, I'm not upset. People are claiming that this is a money grab because they added source marks to the MP and are now making catalysts account bound. I see this as a way to encourage alts. At any given time, you have between two and four places to earn source marks..until you hit 263. You create alts, use those alts to farm marks and because they are tradeable now and after the change they will be account bound nothing changes. The argument that marks were added to the marketplace as a part of a nefarious plan by the devs to funnel more money out of us is ridiculous when there are so many ways to earn marks already.

As with ANYTHING else(such as the cr skips or catalysts in the mp) if people who want to pay to advance...no amount of complaining is gonna change those people or the fact that if they are impatient, they are gonna throw money at daybreak.

The only valid complaint is that it takes away a source of in game revenue from players. Even with that, there are still a million ways to make in game money. Time capsule items, collections, rare item drops can all be sold on the broker still...granted it's still a supply and demand system..if there is a surplus of things..prices will go down.

This is a game I enjoy playing and I don't mind throwing a little money at it here and there in addition to my sub. And honestly, as a subscriber...you can use loyalty points to get seals( I agree they should be available to earn in game). Granted you still have to pay a sub fee..but no extra money if you don't WANT to. 4 seals for 5 bucks isn't bad..I usually by two or three packs at a time. T

This is all my take on the whole situation, feel free to disagree or to agree..either way, I'm gonna keep playing because I enjoy the game and at the end of the day...that's what it comes down to, whether or not you enjoy it.

P.s
Thanks Mepps and all the devs for what you all do.

And this is the chief complaint. You are basically equating something like the caps and the other things that can be bought and sold, and I'll tell you why they are not the same. It's the 'supply' part of 'supply and demand'. Sure I can find a Blue Toothbrush collection piece....and sure I could maybe get 100k today...or 1 mil tomorrow....because the supply fluctuates. You could go weeks without seeing a 'Bloody Knife' in the broker, then if you have a 'Bloody Knife' collection piece...you might wait weeks to sell it. Caps are always in supply...and always in demand, so they have a pretty set standard price, so they are another valid form of currency like Exobits used to be. Also with collections or other tradable things there is no guaranteed return on your time investment. If I know I can run Nexus and Dox and buy 1 cap with the source I'll get (even out of relevancy), I know my time will net me the going rate (around 500K avg...maybe more now). In the same amount of time I could farm collections and maybe come up with nothing...or hit the jackpot with a super rare one, while those lucky few can look upon this as a great deal it's like saying that having a 9-5 job IRL is the same as going and playing scratcher tickets at the liquor store....sure both can make money, but they are not the same.

This isn't even taking into account the Premium players who actually use cats as currency (as some others have said). As they had a pretty set price you could use a set quantity to use for a trade commodity and there were many takers....maybe not so much for that semi rare 'Playhouse Couch' or 'SuperBoy Plaque rubbing'.

Is it the end of the world...no. Is it being done for any real legit reason...no. Mepps basically said it was a decision they made...he didn't mention glitching or any technical reason they could not be tradable still. Is there anyone that is truly benefiting from the change in the player base? I'd have to say no. If you don't want to farm and sell them today...fine, don't. If you want to use alts to farm to keep your main supplied with cats...great, you can do that today. The restriction only serves 1 purpose...it restricts our source of cats by one option...in game purchase or trade. And the only ones who can benefit from that is DBG.

Reinheld

There's also the fact that keeping the catalysts tradeable hurts no one, while benefiting some (people without time or real money to get them, and people who wish to sell them). They could have done the consolidation without removing the ability to trade them.

That is a fair point in reference to the fact that there is no guarantee on a return for your time investment.
Also to Millefune, that's fair as well..there was no real reason to make them account bound.
All I'm saying is that it doesn't bother me.

I'm sure it will not bother a lot of people....that does not make it wrong in principle. There is no advantage in making them account bound other than for DBG's wallet. I'd respect them more if they just said "we made them account bound because we wanted to increase DBG revenue" vs what was said as the reason. Call a spade a spade for pete's sake.

Reinheld

Looking over Mepps'post, the only reason they were able to be traded in the first place is because they dropped in game. Once they realized the system was not working they should have been made account bound when they changed it over to be purchased with source marks in game, on my opinion. If they had done that in the first place, I don't think there would have been such backlash.

Correct me if I'm wrong, with this new system they basically fixed one thing and messed another one up. Less confusion in buyng catalysts but more marks to spend (starting from rank 140).

There would have been backlash then too.

*Sighs.* Quoted for truth.

All we can do now is hope that enough people make an effort to spend less on buying catalysts and Source Marks from the Marketplace to make them rethink the decision. However, that doesn't seem likely, as whatever I spent on catalysts from the Marketplace* will be made up for by others who will, now that they can't buy them on the Broker.

More and more things are becoming Account Bound. Most of the new vendor rewards, for example. I so wish I could dump my hundreds of Daemohedrons on selling the Materials and Accessories so I could afford a Bloody Knife or Void Essence. It feels like we'll eventually not need in-game money anymore, and just have to buy everything we don't/can't grind out with micro-transactions. :-(

I hope the game remains enjoyable enough for me to stay. But I'm strong enough, and I don't fall for the Sunken Cost Fallacy. I've paid what I deem a fair and expendable cost for what time and enjoyment I've gotten from the game, so there's no "loss" for me if I end up leaving. As a person with a business degree, I know and respect Daybreak's hustle, but that doesn't mean I have to let myself get hustled. ^_^

(*In a previous post, I explained that I would buy Catalysts from the Marketplace, so I could sell the Catalysts I got from John Constantine for the in-game money I needed to buy other things from the Broker.)

Yea, I was thinking about that on my way home.... either way, it was a loss of in game revenue for players...I'll just back out gracefully now lol.

I wish on customer appreciation day like ONCE A YEAR, instead of giving us an ACCOUNT BOUND gifts, they should POLL US on what we would like to see added or fixed and honor that based off the highest voting percentages.. Its truly sad but id take that over ANY AMOUNT OF GIFT they offer on those days.. smh

Ty mepps