Test Discussion Swimming

Discussion in 'Testing Feedback' started by Mepps, Jun 20, 2017.

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  1. Carilee Active Player

    I also forgot to add they already have something kind of like the bubble in the game already so coding that shouldn't be that much of an issue and that is the iconic solos. you zone into a waiting area and can change armories all you want before assuming the form of the lpve character like huntress or bizarro. however on boss fights in elite raids it is essential that armories work during the fight. another thing is as the DLC matures you will start to see more users LFG for elite raids and finding support roles for LFG groups 3 months into the DLC can take awhile.
  2. Mepps Sr. Community Manager

    Based on feedback, we have put the air bubble idea aside for now as we look at other possible solutions.
    • Like x 7
  3. Proxystar #Perception

    I'd pose you the question, how is it any different than any other instance creating a mechanic that puts the community in a position where they might run 3-2-1-1 or 2-3-2-1 or 5-1-1-1 or 2-2-2-2.

    It seems to me that people are upset that the the instance is demanding 2-2-2-2 because of swimming, but when any other mechanic within an instance demands 3 tanks the community is okay with it because that's just what the mechanic demands... You're not being forced to run 2-2-2-2 any more than Throne or DWF or Zoo might have required 2 tanks or Hive might have or machine might have.

    I agree that the best solution would be to not limit the armories but such a solution would likely take far longer than is possible within the 2 week time frame we now have before release. so whether we like it or not, this is done.

    There's no point 'crying over spilt milk' what's done is done.

    Sure I agree done ideally we would have been able to swim and use our armories, I can't contest that point and in fact nor do I have a desire to do so, as I agree. However, we need to move on and discuss possible solutions, whether you find them "band aid" or not is besides the point. It's the reality so instead of just saying "no go back and fix it" we have to discuss possible alternative solutions.

    Any attempt to suggest to the devs to just scrap swimming in favor of armories is pointless and quite frankly ridiculous because as I've already said too, it would utterly ruin the immersion of the content.

    edit - well actually looks like they've scrapped air bubbles, will see what options are next I guess.
    • Like x 2
  4. DCFanatical Dedicated Player



    Here is the thing. This isn't something new. If you put on the bat gauntlets or any of the other vault gears that change your movement mode, you enter a transformation stance and can't use armories. All the Devs did was work within an existing system to give us something cool. Which I applaud.

    Yes, Not being able to change armories in open world or when entering an instance can be hampering. And maybe I would even call it "game breaking". But that is why the devs have the air bubbles solution. So if you queue up for a raid and realize you need healer you can get one.

    The problem is, people seem to be more focused on not being able to switch on the fly. In the middle of a boss fight (and we are going to assume for the sake of the argument that this remains true EVEN after the air bubbles are implimented). While yes, this is convenient, it should not be the norm.

    If the group has one tank and it dies, then maybe you need two tanks. If you have two tanks and they both die, maybe you need a better healer (or healers). I think that is why I can't get behind the player hate of swimming. People are placing the blame on the devs, when I think it should fall to the players to figure out what THEY are doing wrong. People are constantly asking for harder content, and it looks like we might finally be getting it, in my opinion that should be celebrated.
    • Like x 3
  5. Original Cryo boy Committed Player

    The community wasn’t ok with Tera needing 3 tanks. Cried like babies. To me the issue is less so armory limitations effecting group make up and more so limitations being put on items we spent money on. Items that didn’t have those limitations when we bought them. Also I don’t appreciate mepps saying 90% of us don’t use armories anyways. Basically saying get over it. Also I received a warning for trolling in this post. Me and you have gone at it before and nothing was done. I haven’t said anything offensive in this thread. I clearly got tagged for disagreeing.
  6. ObsidianChill Community "Trusted"

    Really Proxy? how is it any different vs Throne or DWF I dunno maybe from the fact that the tank just switches for the fight then goes back to dps? It's the same thing as the elite content that requires 3 tanks, do we use 3 tanks the entire time? no just for that instance and then they switch back or when that part of the fight is over they switch back to dps because they are no longer needed as tank and the fight just takes longer needlessly having 1 less dps in those cases.

    I really don't know why you have this attitude of just giving up and telling everyone to move on everytime something comes out that there are augments against. It was the same with the first wave of artifacts "Just give up Obsidian and don't cry over spilt milk, look Obsidian we get artifacts and just be happy and wait weeks or months until you get an artifact that actually makes sense for your role"
    Like i've said numerous times that is entirely the wrong attitude to approach giving feedback. I can't help the devs didn't foresee any issues with this, there is no Community Round Table anymore or do they feel the need to share their advanced plans with players that could point out this issues during the drawing board phase instead of 10 days before its worldwide release. This doesn't mean we just shrug our shoulders and accept whatever we are told like good little obedient dcuo players, this is our only chance to enact real change and try to get the content to where everyone can be happy with a DLC release.

    The real question here isn't anything you are asking us, its "why is swimming so important to Crown of Thorns raid?" open world swimming fine I believe we can all accept having no armory changes, would it be annoying? yes but its something we could overcome. Swimming isn't necessary besides showing off the new flavor for Atlantis in the raid, the open world accomplishes this, all it does it needlessly complicate the raid with time better spent on other bug and QOL fixes for the DLC.
    • Like x 5
  7. Proxystar #Perception

    I'm not going to comment on moderation.

    In regards to the 3 tanks thing, they might have cried but how many people just got on and did it as that might have been what was required, I bet you all of them.

    Mepps telling you 90% of us don't use armories was him stating a fact to provide context to their decision making, your agreement or appreciation of that fact is irrelevant, you shouldn't take offense because someone, especially a developer decides to post a factual piece of information.

    Also in terms of "buying access" to your armories and your sense of entitlement to their use, I appreciate the disappointment however, if you read the terms and conditions of the game you'll find the developers have creative licencing to do just about anything in terms of changing how the game operates and functions irrespective of whether you've paid for something.
  8. Trexlight Devoted Player

    If only the (now ex) proposed bubbles were going to be in before the Boss Rooms to allow Armory changes. i mean, thats exactly how I read the Bubbles were going to be implemented. Did no one else come to that conclusion? Well, no matter. Whats done is done. No matter crying over spilled milk since everyone cried and the milk is being cleaned. Here's hoping the Devs come up with another idea that wont result players to be "forced" to play like back in the day before Home Turf. Perish the thought and all that.
    • Like x 2
  9. Jacob Dragonhunter Steadfast Player

    Oh well.

    Here's hoping the new setup will keep the swimming setup in-tact.
    • Like x 1
  10. Mepps Sr. Community Manager

    I should note, the bubbles will be in the open world and solo with this evening's hotfix. We will remove them if the issue can be resolved another way, but please check them out.
    • Like x 7
  11. Proxystar #Perception

    So what? This raid just has three fights that requires such a make up instead of one or two, that doesn't negate the point at all.

    I'm also not going to enter in to a discussion about your emotive disagreements with me chill or the way I frame my feedback and whether you subjectively and personally find it relevant.

    If you've read Mepps comments they did foresee the issues with this, they just decided that the "immersion" achieved from swimming in an underwater enviornment" offset the negatives.

    As for your question about "swimming in crown of thorns" it's an underwater raid, it requires the swimming immersion just the same as open world; that's the only answer you need.
    • Like x 2
  12. 9001BPM Steadfast Player

    I’m not the one complaining about the armoury situation though ;)
    • Like x 1
  13. 9001BPM Steadfast Player

    But I liked the bubbles can’t we keep them? :(
    • Like x 1
  14. Alrighty Then Loyal Player

    I guess we'll get to give them a dry run.
    • Like x 2
  15. Shark Dental Devoted Player

    Lol. Nice job there.
    • Like x 2
  16. MsTickle Fate Devoted Player

    It's good to see the devs being responsive with more than just hot air.
    • Like x 1
  17. Brad Sisto Well-Known Player

    There are two 'workarounds' that were added into Atlantis tonight

    Swimming Enemies were reduced and condensed to only exist when they have a bridge right underneath them. This seems to be working well and mostly addresses some of the problems with the Water is actually Air issue. As long as your fight does not lead the enemies away from the bridge they and any items they drop will fall down onto the bridge which shouldn't be very far from you. For fighting this seems to work pretty well to me.

    Air bubbles were added to both the Open World and Instances where you are are swimming. As a workaround I like this. I wish there were more of them around and I might have an Idea on how that 'might' be possible as I dislike them only being in one spot on the map. If you end up sticking with the Permanent Air Bubbles could you put in a Map Indicator on both the Main and Mini Maps? Anyhow the idea I have is actually a question for you Devs, Would it be possible to add 'Makes an Air Bubble' as an effect for some Trinket or Disposable Trinket? If this were possible people could do a lot with it.

    I have stumbled on another bug with Swimming. If you are swimming and Change Your Weapons your in combat weapon stance gets all mucked up. To get out of this state you need to switch weapons again once you are no longer swimming. I have only managed to create this state once so far but it is possible to get into.

    Nature still has a problem with its Gorilla and Wolf forms as both of these has a movement transformation associated with them and results with an Acrobatic Gorilla and Super Speed Wolf moving about Atlantis instead of swimming

    There is another issue that still needs to be explored and that is how does The Atlantis Swimming effect other movement transforming items like the Joker Backpack, Climbing Gloves and Journey Boots? Sorry I can't easily test this as there is no means to procure these outside of the Vault.

    I still really love the swimming mode for the game even with its drawbacks. Something to consider for future vendor reward would be an alternative swimming animation. The idle water treading would be the same but the actually moving would be the dolphin kicking swim. I am not sure how easy this would be but it was just an idea that popped to my mind as I was testing.
    - Update I manged to recreate this by having 1 weapon then changing to another and then moving in and out of the Air Bubble.
    • Like x 2
  18. Mepps Sr. Community Manager

    With today's test publish, you can now use Armories while swimming. Please be on the lookout for bugs.
    • Like x 15
  19. Kid Multiverse Loyal Player

    Amazing!

    Kudos to you guys for getting this sorted out. Atlantis hype levels now at 100%
    • Like x 1
  20. Schimaera Devoted Player


    Where there's a will there's a way. Good job, guys!
    • Like x 1
  21. Proxystar #Perception

    Well good on you for managing to get it done to appease those that were worried about it ;)
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