Dev Discussion Episode 32: 'H.I.V.E. Reborn' Raid

Discussion in 'Concluded' started by Charon, Jul 18, 2018.

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  1. Brav Well-Known Player


    If this is a constant/persistent issue, then perhaps another 30 seconds per phase may solve it or a couple more adds in regular for each phase may work as well, like you've mentioned. (I haven't tried this feat again recently, so I wouldn't know. But I can see that as a possibility since normal doesn't spawn as many adds (quickly) as elite does).
    • Like x 2
  2. Ekart Committed Player


    Tnx for your response. I know that her dmg scales. You can survive 1st with melee tanking, maybe 2nd also but the adds should not attack you or you're toast. This is a Kobayashi Maru like instance for Ice because 3rd phase is another lvl. I range tanked here but at the end of 3rd phase here pebble blast one-shoted me while i was getting away from her.

    What i'm seeing is that the combo of gas, Terra's dot will melt your shields away so fast that you're haven all of them on CD. The dmg is not that kind of the problem but the timing that it's getting in. On several runs over this weekend i've seen that the timing should be adjusted. If you have the gas dot, Terra's dot and maybe an add on you, you can't survive this from 2nd phase on as Ice. Amazonian deflection which is "my holy crap" shield is like I never activated it.

    When the same group I've run with finished it, it wasn't with an Ice tank. Earth, Rage, Atomic seem a go to for this, which is not really ok. Ice tanks are people too. :D
  3. Brav Well-Known Player


    I understand, it can definitely get tough for the other tanks believe me I would know (fire tank here, cr249 atm) but it is still possible and just requires more attention and coordination with the group (Rotating sc shields/shield heals (supply drops), plugging in the vents quick on each side/one side at a time, etc).

    I don't know if I would use AD (at least for that fight), as its situational at best (I do have it unlocked). It must be timed right as it only last for about 6 seconds and can be countered or can just go to waste most of the time. I also have an ice tank (I just finished his episode gear cr246 now) on the villain side though, which I use his three main shields (reflection, winter warder, shatter restraints) and hard light shield as my extra. That's pretty basic for ice though which I am sure you are using as well.

    I do agree though, I have each tank power as well and I can see the difference when tanking content, it's mainly because of how their mechanics work and the buffs (I personally feel that all tank powers should be defensed based, but this is coming from a fire tank, which gets the least amount of defense as a tank) that they receive help as well. (I haven't ran my alts through elite yet though I did with my main and I've ran with all tanks powers so far and it is noticeable). But it it still doable with each tank power as mentioned and it just requires more team work then just winging it.

    (Just some basic Information and my perspective of some of the tank powers).

    (Yes, earth/rage is the main ones then comes atomic. Earth gets a higher defense when using stone skin (55%)/aftershock load (high (65% dom) dominance adds to defense) or using brick (pet load) transfers about 66% damage to it, though you have to keep him shielded/powered and healed. Earth also has one of the strongest shields as a tank (gem stone, must combo/hit 4 times for max absorption). Though earth like most tanks still needs to be healed, at times/cool down/spike damage.

    Rage is a different type of beast, it gets defense as well (100% = 50% tank role + 50% (Fervor) specific powers), 20% health plus 100% of dominance can be added to health (hit counter maintained). That's strong on its own as a buff, now its mechanic (enrage) heals about 60% (tank role) of the damage back within 8 seconds of damage received while active, though they can crash for all of the damage if its wasn't canceled in time (specific power canceler) or if they weren't using a damage protection power (30% of the 60% healed damage protection guaranteed), plus timing shields is important. Shields can be used during enrages down time or right before it goes off to absorb some of the damage before any of it is taken from your health. Rage also has the ability to heal with some abilities (rage bringer/without mercy) based on the damage done and those heal ticks can be doubled with remorseless recovery (6 ticks, capped at a percent of your dom/resto). Most of this allows rage to hold its own for quite awhile if all goes well, though power will be needed and some heals at times for harder content where some damage may be more than the rage (self heals) can keep up with (outside of the 60% mechanic heals).

    Atomic is more simple and well rounded. It has some abilities from each tank power and can be played almost like the others but it is not completely strong in one aspect just balanced in most of them. (It's 90% defense (tank role) gives it more freedom to play differently). It's aura while active absorbs 25% damage while giving 15% immunity and 2% heals based on your health (while hitting a target), it's heals are mostly based off its dominance for the combo healing abilities and proton remedy (heal) is based off its restoration. Though it's combos can no longer counter so using your weapon to counter is a must when needed and blocking on skull/mechanics like every tank/everyone. (Shields are very useful for atomic just as they are for any other tank).

    That's just some basic information on those 3 tanks. Fire and ice aren't that much different from each other, other than ice (100%= 50% tank role, 35% ice armor) gets more defense and fire (50% = 30% tank role + 20% fire soul/hit counter maintained) gets more health (50% health) + (50% healing in). Ice uses its shields (effective health) to mitigate most of the damage, while fire uses its heals to mitigate/heal through most of the damage. While the healer recovers the rest. Dominance and Restoration play an important part for most tanks but even more so for these two as it increases their effective health with shields and heals. Having more (visible) health, helps as well. (All tanks can use the tactical neck mod for 10% more defense (block/not blocking), if desired which also helps).

    Well that's a bit more than I wanted to type but there it is and it should hopefully help some players who may want to know the difference that may have not known. Thank you again for your time.
  4. Brav Well-Known Player

    (*Edit)
  5. ZuroXtheDragon Active Player

    Greetings Devs and players.
    We realy apreciate the wishes of players who wanted elite raids "harder" but this is ridiculous now... I'm a player since late 2015 and am half way between 300 and 400 skill points.
    The elite versions of the raids since Amazony Fury 3 were hard enough i think and i'm sure a lot of players are at the same opinion as i am. All the new episode since that is very iconic and had good points and good stories. And with the elite versions of the raids it was a real challange like a player like me and my friends. We think the Hive and Machine elite is too strong even for the OG players, and it isnt a point to have very less percent of completion of the elite raids and within the feats. It is very disapointing to have a good group gathered in half an hour and play (struggle) 2 damn hours in the elites to get 1 or 2 bosses done! This episode is out for a month and i played elites over a dozen time over dozens of hours and what did i get from spending hours in the raids? Only 600 renown points... That means for 4 weeks of struggle and a lot of runs we beat only 3 bosses... Now THAT is unfair!! Besides i played along semi-well known or well known players who are a little bit legendary in the game and they had hard time too. WAY more hard that og players and new rising "titans" deserve. We think +5Cr and tactics was enough for the elites. This 10+Cr and tactics is too much
    I realy love DC universe and this game is almost the only game i play in the last 2-3 years but please... These new elites are too much to "enjoy" and lot of players rage-quit after the second fail. If a group can defeat 1-2 bosses in it after hours of struggle than it is an awesome thing... but it is more rare than a white crow dancing to Michael jackson on the MOON...
    Please Devs do something about it.
    Much appreciation,
    Thank you
    ~Zurox
  6. Danne0075 Well-Known Player


    Clearly the raids arent too hard because I was full renown first week and so was most people in my league and other people I know. I play on the EU server on villain side and if we can get groups and finish all elite raids easily im sure you can do same. If you keep wiping over and over and have a hard time maybe you're not ready for elite because theres a lot of other players that finish these raids without any problems.
  7. Schimaera Devoted Player


    Remember that CR does not make you weaker or stronger anymore since CR differential is not a thing anymore.

    I do disagree however. I believe the Elite raids are fine, even though i would like to see more challenging, enganging and teamwork oriented mechanics, since we still have that good old "block or you're dead"-theme going on.

    Yet I do have to say that two things have gotten incredibly rare: Tanks that can do what they're supposed to do and lfg-made groups that actually try.
    Too often I see people in LFG-Groups dying for stupid reasons like attacking on reflection, not blocking or in case of HiveE 1st boss running over to the second tank to do more damage in the downtime until the next wave. It's a lack of discipline and false pride. Too often I've read tanks or other roles typing "don't tell me what to do, I know how to play" only to die shortly after. The community, especially in LFG-groups is more or less toxic and lacks the decency to talk to others how they would like to be talked to. So it's actually three problems. Four problems if I consider that only a few groups I came across managed to get into Voice Chat or Discord.
    Yes, english might not be your native tongue, yet basic tells like "block", "stop damage" and "focus adds/boss" are something anyone should be able to communitcate.
    And even if it helps only a little, there are videos up on YouTube of players beating the raids. Find some where they are not sped up and look at whats going on. Remember it and communicate.

    Sorry to be that guy, but Danne pretty much showed what I mean: Nobody is helped by saying "Well we can do it and others can do it too. Maybe you're not ready."
    I miss the times where people actually helped eachother even in PUG groups. Now, I see "disconnects without return" on the first Terra attempt left and right.

    Go and form a premade group and ask everyone individually if they can name all the mechanics and how to play them in elite. They probably can't.
  8. Penryn The Gadgeteer

    This is a bit off-topic for H.I.V.E. Reborn, but I wanted to comment on this statement.

    CR Differential isn't a thing anymore, but the player's CR stat is still important. There are a few important places in the game's damage received/damage output formulas where the player's current CR stat is included in the calculation. Usually this is all invisible to the player. However in the most extreme - but unlikely - scenarios, it can lead to a very frustrating player experience. You can also give yourself some minor advantages depending on the situation.
  9. ZuroXtheDragon Active Player

    @Schimaera, Danne0075

    So this is "fine" and "not enough chalenging to you. Than let me join you next time because i had enough of the "i can't do it" and "i had enoguh, bye + quit" method of a lot of players. Here are only 2 comments yet and maybe it will be more, but... there are thousands of players who think they are strong and got the guts to launch an elite but ragequits after a few tries or in a short time.
    THE MORAL is the problem here i know. But still i'm a feat freak since i pay for this game and where i live we earn very less money and i want my money to get worth it. I'm paying and playing for winning not just "trying"...

    Inv me next time when you do runs. My main is ZuroXtheDragon in game too.
    Thank you
  10. ZuroXtheDragon Active Player

    @Schimaera, Danne0075

    So this is "fine" and "not enough chalenging to you. Than let me join you next time because i had enough of the "i can't do it" and "i had enoguh, bye + quit" method of a lot of players. Here are only 2 comments yet and maybe it will be more, but... there are thousands of players who think they are strong and got the guts to launch an elite but ragequits after a few tries or in a short time.
    THE MORAL is the problem here i know. But still i'm a feat freak since i pay for this game and where i live we earn very less money and i want my money to get worth it. I'm paying and playing for winning not just "trying"...

    Inv me next time when you do runs. My main is ZuroXtheDragon in game too.
    Thank you
  11. Ala Rebeldex Loyal Player

    Elite raid´s difficulty is in the right spot now IMO. Some of the past "elite" raids were too easy to begin with, and that´s why some people got the wrong idea of what Elite difficulty should be.
    • Like x 1
  12. Schimaera Devoted Player

    I'm going to add you and if I run in the next week, I'll hit you up when we search for roles. I agree with the Moral thing though. In paradox days we stayed in there for five hours the first days just to learn the mechanics and to dodge.
    Heck, my new group back then was dragged into Batcave II in Tier1 gear by me just to train movement and communication.

    You rarely see this these days. Sure, there are leagues who do that kind of thing or who are players who played together for a long time.

    From my perspective, people need to slow down and focus on mechanics first (with a few exceptions).

    From what I said earlier about videos to learn something, I take the time here to advertise the guys and gals of Charged Up with whom I run from time to time. The vid is not sped up and you can pretty much see who things can/should be played and how mechanics look like. A one-tank run can be risky though. So to make it more easier on new groups, go with two tanks and split add waves and bombers/naturepets when fighting Hive Master.



    There should also be some good vids about HiveE out there. First encounter and second one are just discipline and some good tanks that don't die in the Icon Suit phase when you block through it. On the Terra fight there are two options. For starters try to play the battle as clean and possible and don't try to burn through her in one phase. Can be kinda stressful for Healers and Tanks.
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  13. Danne0075 Well-Known Player

    Do you play on EU? im always uo to help people that need but im not like the other forum people that will sugar coat everything. If you're **** I will tell you that you are and tell you what you're doing wrong. I won't kick you since then you'll never improve but just be ready to hear about stuff you could work on in case you're doing something wrong. :)

    My in game name ia Danne, I play on EU server villain side and you should be able to find me fairly easily. Either that or you can msg me on PSN which is Danne0075 if you are Ps.
    • Like x 1
  14. Danne0075 Well-Known Player

    Also I wasn't trying to be helpful. I was calling him out on what hr was saying and adding in that me and others have finished these raids fairly easy. Of course im not perfect and no one is. I still have bad runs some times where we're full group of people that have finished the raids together before but for some reason we struggle a bit more but in the end we always finish it because we stay and keep trying. It's also not hard learning the MOST important mechanics in these raids and playing after them. Of course theres some mechanics which arent as important or as frequent that some people don't know about also.
  15. Schimaera Devoted Player


    No worries, I just was pointing out that this kind of response is not helpful for discouraged players. :3
  16. Schimaera Devoted Player


    Addition: THIS is actually more helpful and encouraging for struggling players :p
  17. ZuroXtheDragon Active Player

    Yes, i'm on EU server
    And I'm realy thankful for the adds and future runs.
    Last time i was in elite this was the result. I started as tank because of the 2 doors and turrets and after i did everything i can and we quit...
    [IMG]
  18. ZuroXtheDragon Active Player

    And i realy appreciate this! THIS is the moral i'm looking for
    Thank you mates
  19. ZuroXtheDragon Active Player

    @Schimaera, Danne0075
    I'm awfully sorry on Thursday i must go to a friend because they had some house damage by storms in the mountains. But on Friday i'll be online ALL day
    Thank you
    ~ZuroXtheDragon
  20. CassUV Well-Known Player

    Devs, you need to fix the bug that was created on last update. Do Rocky Road Feat on Hive Reborn Normal is impossible now. We only have 3 waves of 8 adds each and we need 30 to complete this feat. Please, increase the number os adds to, at least, 10 each phase. In the description of the feat, clear says that the feat can be done on both, elite and Normal raids, so fix it to be able to complete this on normal raid.
    • Like x 3
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