it does not feel like "skill points matter"

Is it just me or does it feel like artifacts kind of crippled skill points mattering anymore? like i dont know it doesnt feel fun anymore grinding skill points knowing artifacts alone can carry me along with gear stats

skill points need to have a bigger relevancy window than it currently does the whole point of revamp was to make SP matter now the game juSt feels dumbed down.

Have you reset your SP to 0 and tried a duo/alert with/without SP to properly compare yet?

Please share a link to a Dev's post that ever stated that the goal of the Stats Revamp was to make SP matter?

It was my understanding that the stat revamp was to transition from a CR Differential damage calculation system back to a stat-based damage calculation system. It had little to nothing to do with making SP more important/impactful during combat.

It seems players misunderstood, or got their hopes up about what the revamp was for & what it was going to do.

Something to think about from a game company's standpoint, instead of a veteran player's. . .

Requiring high SP for content, even end-game content, rewards veterans yet alienates new players.

Systems that drive away new customers are usually bad business decisions.

You don’t really need a link, the initiative was called “Stats Matter” lol

If someone is going to state that someone else made a certain claim, it needs to be supported. (Research paper basics)

Stats matter is not the same thing as (and never was) SP matter. There are many things that feed into a player's stats. Stats has its own tab in the inventory screen. Tha's what was damage calculators were changed to.

Why is this so hard for players to understand?

It seems to me that the artifacts when leveled up to the 100-120 mark actually start to magnify differences... because if you cannot spend the 100 points in your primary stat to get that 10% bonus, it starts to hurt. Artifacts appear to be applied after other bonuses (will have to check the math on that vs all percentages being added up first and then applied after-the-fact)... so you may only get an additional 3-4 points per 100 (level 80 or level 120 artifact with your primary stat as the big one on it)... but when you start looking at how you gain stats from other sources like your gear and your augments, these numbers start adding up.

All told, two equally equipped and comparably skilled players... one with say 150 SP and the other with 250... the one with 250 will start pulling away from the one with 150 in performance... or the 250 SP player will be able to withstand an interruption here and there while the 150 SP player will have to be spot-on perfect every time to even compete.

The math behind it:

1000 points in the stat, just for simple comparisons produces the following possibilities:

1000 + 10% bonus from stat points => 1100 (for reference)
1000 + 14% bonus from stat points plus artifact at level 120 => 1140 (all percentages added up before being applied)
1000 + 10% bonus from stat points => 1100 + 4% bonus from artifact at level 120 => 1144 (SP bonus applied before applying artifacts)

Yeah, it's only an extra 4 points... but when you start talking about people having 20-30 times that in their stats, that 4 points per 1000 starts adding up... and I'm only giving the example of a single artifact with the primary stat at 4%... with 2 and 3 (coming soon) artifacts, that post-SP bonus can become anywhere from 6-10% extra, which means anywhere from 6-10 points per 1000 if you follow the second scenario. In the case of the 150 vs 250 SP player, that stat point bonus will be lower given that your bonuses come from the number of points you spend:

5-> 1%, 10->2%, 15->3%, 20->4%, 30->5%, 40->6%, 50->7%, 60->8%, 80->9%, 100->10%

So the gap will widen depending on how many SP are spent in an individual stat.

Alright, run a raid with none specced and compare it to your normal spec, let me know how it goes

You want them to buff the effectiveness of SP, then prove they're not important. Prove they don't make a noticeable difference on performance.

So close, though most will say what they are saying now in response to your OP.

Stats Matter, it initially was introduced that way but, well those that did want a change in direction were not vocal enough when it mattered.

Nobody but a few actually want more challenge to the game and if they did what you or I would like them to do, there will be adjustments to make the content relatively the same so it would be a gain of zero.

I have in my mind how it would play out on the test server as well because people think just because they have high SP should mean 1 shot territory or almost godlike.

Even if they were to attempt to make SP matter, it would be cause the hyperbole to come out of how it will kill the game or how empty leagues are now empty or how it drove the population to be low or my favorite how new players and those who have to work (which is pretty much everyone) only have 3 hours to play and there is no way they can get to max level of SP due to the amount of time it takes to get there (I have seen someone with 3 hours catch up in 2 years time).

Woah, deja vu!

Stats do matter...to an extent.
What matter most is still

GEAR
SKILL
POWER


Everything else falls after that. Stats do matter more than AM days, but they still fall behind other things.

The debate rages on LOL A long while back, right after the revamp, when players were informing everyone that Armor was no longer the decisive factor in how well or badly a player did on missions I did an experiment. Now please .. I do not recall all the facts but feel free to try this yourself. It does not take long to do and you can do in in total safety in your own lair.

1. With armor on and now of days with you augments and artifacts slotted check your overall stats. Easy enough to do just Pull inventory and look in the stats tab. Now take a pencil and write down the totals for the following Health, Power, Might ... you can even add in Dom or Vit or Resto... any thing you may be enhancing with augments/artifacts/SP.

2. Now take off all your armor and for this experiment pull your artifacts and augments out of their slots. Your combat rating just dropped to ZERO and then go back to the inventory again and check out how how Health, Power, Might, Precision, Dom or whatever you have left. That is basically the amount you are getting from SP.... now those totals may vary depending on your Generator mods and any buffs your getting from a Legaue (IF you belong to one). But you should notice a really Large drop in stats overall... With me my MIGHT dropped from 5821 to 874..... which works out to around 11.6 percent of my total Might was coming from a combination of my SP along with generator mods and League buffs.

THAT means that 88.4% was coming from the armor .. because back when i did this little test artifacts and augments did not exist. So like it or not ARMOR is still king....... And let's get really honest.... You can have 400 SP and if your character's CR is only 53 you are NOT going to get into Earth 3 and take on Superwoman.

Now is SP helpful? OH heck yeah. Even that 10 to 11% can be the difference between staying alive or dropping like a fly against a tough boss. But no amount of SP is going to make you invincible and SKILL at playing the game makes huge difference as well.

Not entirely true. Generator mods, gear, stat points, artifacts, and buffs give a static amount of stats. You can't leave in all your sp's and take all gear off and say that they do matter. It says on the screen that spending 100 points gives you 10% bonus, so it is 10% and you know it.

The buffs are percentage based and have a higher impact the higher your static (base) numbers are. So theoretically I could have 100 might and have a 100% buff and end up with 200 might with a difference of 100. At same buff but with 20,000 base, it would be 40,000 might with difference of 20,000 vs 100.

The stats we have today have low base values and high buffs. The sp's giving 10%, artifacts (although vary a lot) give lets say 6% and then these augments another 5% and then league hall buff of 3%, omega of 5% and so far we have a 29% buff...give or take but lets say its between 1/3 and 1/4 % buff for our parameters.

this and all the sp's we put into a stat is devalued because we add so little to an inflated system and is very deceiving. At low levels the points are indistinguishably the same while being maxed out we have that higher buff difference and will make a difference. That's where the 'please the vets' or 'shame the new players' comes into play. We need to go back to pre T6 where we had armor penetration and the buffs which were individualized and each point actually mattered for damage, healing, or the who had the higher pot.

this buff gap on the base value system is just a new way of segregating players and yet another inflated system which there is always one (now many) and the devs are blinded by and think they are infallible by the major stats matter revamp and following stuff. This system is no where near linear if we have widening impacts on buffs that grow exponentially when are stats grow linearly/flat line.

No insult to your math but it is quite complicated and hope many can see how this system is totally flawed and is a ticking bomb like how cr diff was or wm and all that other inflated stuff goes. And on top of that controllers don't matter and our base stat values were diminished and everything is now 'power power power everything need be in power JUST TO PLAY'.[/quote]

Anyone claiming stat points don't matter or make a difference needs to come off their pedestal of pretend godliness and stop lying about it in an effort to pretend they're more op than they really are.

One need only run content with zero stat points set all the way to a range of your maximum being set to see the difference.

The difference between 200 and 400 is even plain as day.

The only ones that ever want to pretend they don't matter are those that don't want to make any effort and want to continue to be carried through content by those players that do.

[/quote]

Maybe I missed this but, how come we need another thread to have a reasonable discussion on why what works or don't work and in other topics everybody goes down the throat of the OP or anyone else that feel as though having stats heavily reliant on gear.

For the sake of argument I happen to believe that because everyone basically run as DPS and either stack might or precision and with content having damage that could 1 shot a tank or take a tank down in several hits without buffs or shields having extra health is seen as not needed so they easily will Max out the might or precision.

If they could actually have content to where adds were doing damage relative to non tank roles where Bosses at the current level or even a little stronger it would play more visible to where their SP were.

Of course people would think their SP are not a factor when 1 stat becomes the meta such as might or precision.

Note:
Because of the solo'ing with non-dps roles there really is no competition but who has more SP for the sake of those who don't know what they are doing orbit elite content. Lately I've seen 2 healer runs even in normal content. I've seen others stay in troll role here and there's well, much smoother runs as far as IDK ups go.

At 240CR I have powered a group of 245 and above with no problems and of course I stun debuff everything throughout the entire run and we weren't and out of the machine in a straight queue in to normal not the event.

In fact, Stats matter but SP itself doesn't matter.

Yes, well said. Because some people were complaining about skill points and the fact that they didn't want to get them, developers found out a way to give us more stats by just killing adds and bosses, and they monetized that way...
Skill points should give us a lot more stats than artifacts , because we spend hours up to months to get those skill points ! And we don't just kill adds and bosses, we have to be very careful for many feats.Like the ones that require killing a boss without killing some adds, or the ones that must be done in in elite raids.

Unfortunately you're in the minority. Daybreak has consistently catered to people wanting to feel special about the time they have played and "achievements" they have done. While I understand the necessity of having SP matter to a certain degree I'll never understand the mindset of people that think 300 skill points should be twice as powerful as someone with 150. That type of system would be near impossible to balance as well as, like you said, drive away any new players to the game.

Has anyone tried to get a group together to do old tier 2,3 or 4 raid feats? It's nearly impossible.

I've been playing MMO's for almost 20 years. THIS SYSTEM NEVER WORKS. I've literally played dozens and dozens of games that died because of catering too much to the hardcore.

Stat Points do matter. We can argue about how much they matter, however they do matter nonetheless. There are multiple factors that contribute to stats(ex: Gear, Artifacts, Consumables, Trinkets, Origin Augments, DLC Adaptive Augments).

Certainly, each of these factors may weigh differently on your performance in game. Gear may weigh more than Stat Points or an Artifact more than a trinket. Having a lesser weight does not mean they are meaningless. I don't know about other players but I like to strive for my character to be the best it can be. Even if Stat Points were only 5% of Stats overall, I'd continue grinding them out. 400+ and going.

Saying one of these factors does not matter is absolutely laughable. Even worse is believing, "Stats matter but stat points themselves do not matter."



A = Stat Points
B = Stats
A is a subset of B. Stats Points are a contributing factor to Stats. Stat Points are included in the larger class of Stats. I don't know how much more clear this can be made. Here's a simpler example.
"All dogs are animals."
"Rick is a dog."
"Rick is an animal."

Now, if the issue is that you'd like for the value of Stat Points to be increased, for them to weigh more, then make a clear correction and state so without making inaccurate assertions.