I just want simple answer from anybody from Daybreak Game Company.

People wanting immunities remind me of the slow kids growing up playing tag trying to make excuses or make up rules so that they could get away. If you want an immunity..... stun your opponent. That's an immunity and you get a free shot on the opponent that you stunned.

edit* Go start a brawl in a bar or on the street with about 4v4, 5v5, 1v 4 or whatever and see if you get any immunities. You won't and you never will.

This is DCUO, not real life. Realism is sometimes tweaked in favor of fairness in video games. You aren't rewarded under this system when you grab a counter and the opponent gets right back up and counters you back. That doesn't make logical sense in my opinion. As far as immunities being a crutch, I think it's the opposite. A non-immunity system is comfortable for players who don't want to sharpen the skills I mentioned previously, and that is the REAL crutch. There is no skill involved when you can just leech damage off of the person grabbing counters.

You'll likely maintain your viewpoint, which is fine. But I'm stopping here because continuing is only serving to further prove Mepps' statements.

DC Universe Battle Royale mode = big fn money.

Some players have an advantage with the immunity system, not due to better reflexes, but because of faster internet connections, lower ping and utilizing macros. Just saying.

I miss those all out brawls we used to have on the hospital roof, helipad and outside night clubs.

****in lag fests but I miss them nonetheless.

I'm pretty sure that the devs decided not to focus on PVP well before the revamp ever hit, since testing threads regarding PVP were practically non-existent if not totally ignored. So talking about how bad PVP is post-revamp is really moot since it was never taken into account anyway.

Macro in pvp hahaha no, pvp is always better when this isn't used, macros are robotic and therefore easily beaten and destroyed.

Macros are an excuse in my view expressed by psn players who get thrashed by a PC player and want an excuse for losing.

That is true. Players who have access to those things do have advantages, typically PC players. However, that is an issue that is universal across many cross-platform games with PvP or any competitive mode in general. I can't agree with this being used in arguments against the immunity system.

I also can't agree that that's moot. Mepps stated in this thread that the team still wants to work on PvP, and from his response to Allen's post, they're open to small tweaks. That means they have to look at its current state if they want to do this. The problem Mepps mentioned with small tweaks is the conflict between players on changes. I think if the developers choose to make these tweaks and make use of a fair voting system that garners meaningful feedback from experienced PvP players, there may be a chance for PvP.

I said in my post that just because PvP is broken doesn't mean we should stop trying. If people want the developers to just drop PvP altogether, that's their opinion, but I think those players should have more respect for players who still value PvP and are willing to work with the developers to see it out of its current state.

Heh. I think this thread is only the start of people saying enough is enough. @Mepps, can you try to facilitate SOME changes like immunity and batman/robin's bb getting fixed? That is at least a START.

Possibly when they released the new gear set, Suicide Squad Arena and gave double currency rewards for an extended period of time.

They probably noticed that even with the new enticements, PVP was still basically dead or non-productive.

You also need to stop looking at things as, 'why did PVP go wrong?'

It doesn't matter currently what happened in the past, whatever errors were made (probably before Sony even became Daybreak) or whether PVP was always the red-headed stepchild that most of the community ignored. PVP just doesn't work with some game communities.

The point is, look at things as they are currently. If you were a business owner, would you sacrifice the quality of service for your paying customers in order to POTENTIALLY draw in a small amount of previous customers who didn't spend anything or spent only minimal amounts on your products?

Things are BAD now. They would require major time and attention from the development staff to properly balance, NOT COUNTING community disagreement and disinterest.

Just to use an example, you mentioned Atomic combos. Since damage is calculated on power effects, would adding counters back to the combos also mean increasing their damage output? Would atomic, rage and celestial players complain about not having any options anymore due to constantly being countered every time they use a power? How hard would pets have to hit to be fair? Would channeled single target powers also be buffed taking into account interrupts? Would they still do damage if canceled? Would precision damage be reduced to account for the ability to do damage and counter at the same time? Would channeled powers be turned into block breakers as well?

You see the amount of questions that arise that would basically require REVAMP part DEUX to successfully navigate. Fixing things partially is a waste of time, since it wouldn't do a single thing to make PVP more attractive to the majority of game players and very little to actually entice old vets to come back.

Define "meaningful feedback." Define "experienced PVP players."

I think you'll find that people generally have an agenda, leading them to establish themselves and their playstyle as superior.

So who are experienced? Who should the devs target? Uber-fast clippers that use macros to excel? Casuals who just want to have fun playing their powers without getting countered every 5 seconds?

Whose feedback is more valuable, or "right"?

You're reading way too much into this. Did you totally skip the part where he said that there are no changes planned and they're not planning to work on PVP whatsoever any time in the foreseeable future?

Let's put it this way: With weapon balance, they at least said it was "on the radar."

With PVP, Mepps gave a lengthy post explaining why it's not a priority whatsoever.

Unless something drasticly changes in player interests and metrics, why would that intent change in the future?

It's like a who got turned down 5 times after inviting a girl on a date, but still keeps pictures of her on his wall. "I know she loves me... deep down, she loves me."

IMHO it should be players with actual experience with respect to pvp in dcuo. You can take a pvper that is really good but that doesn't mean that he'll be able to tell you what needs to happen because he's good in the current meta.

• Did the player get their 250 map feats before they were changed to 50?
• Does the player remember when a counter was simply a hardstun and knockdown?
• Does the player remember what the ignore toughness proc weapons were like in pvp?
• Does the player remember the old starting location for the Diamond Heist?
• Does the player remember being in Robinson park? Metro Hospital Roof? Star labs fight club?
• Does the player remember when ghosting and dogging was a legit strat in pvp?
• Does the player remember the zesti cola party pack?
• Does the player remember what white mods were like in pvp and finishers?
• Does the player remember influence and pvp consumables?
• Does the player remember what it was like to have a utility belt in pvp?
• Was the player here for Season 1, Season 2 and Season 3 of pvp?
• Does the player remember what the introduction of movement mode debuffs was like?
• Does the player remember what each role actually could do in pvp with regards to what a tank's impact was to a controller, what a healer's impact was to the tank, what the controllers impact was to the dps?
• Does the player remember what it was like after rock-paper-scissors was taken out?
• Does the player remember what it was like to pvp during the pre-release to weapon mastery when any counter would one-shot you?
• Does the player remember what the introduction of powers being able to block break had?

How can a player possibly hope to provide any meaningful feedback about what DCUO pvp should be like if they don't know the majority of that list above? They would have needed to be there to know what works and what hasn't worked. When was immunity at a good place? The devs need this type of information to make it easier to fix the current state of pvp because it will be past on past experiences in the game instead of scrapping everything currently and starting from scratch which is what Mepps said would take the place of 1-2 episodes of pve sacrifice to work on the state of pvp.

To be fair, PvP could very well just be "on the radar" as well, just cause it's on the radar though doesn't mean they will pursue it. While I appreciate a response to the numerous weapon threads finally, I'm not holding my breath on it. It could be next year, or 2020 for all we know.

Macros don't provide any meaningful advantage in pvp in fact they're more of a burden.

Like I said if you know what a macro is you'd understand.

Macros are recordings of button inputs.

I.e you press one button and the computer proceeds with the inputs as if you're pressing them it by no means allows a player to bypass dovetail animations nor does it allow a player to foresee their opponents actions.

If anything using a macro would make the macro user both vulnerable and predictable because they'd be robotic in terms of their pre recorded rotation.

Macros are not speed hacks.

The people that get all bent out of shape about macros in pvp are simply horrible ignorant to what they even are, they just think they're on par with speed hacks.

There's no meaningful advantage to setting up a macro for pvp that is discernibly any better than just manually doing the inputs on a keyboard, mouse or controller.

Chuckled out loud to this one, mostly cause it's true

They did use to have loot locks in PvP when last laugh came out, so they at least tried in the past

This thread appears to be spawning more PvP threads. Could this be the start of a revolution?? Do that many people really care about PvP or are they just riding the wave? Find out on the next episode of dragonball Z!

He never stated that "no changes are planned." He never stated that they wouldn't "work on PvP whatsoever any time in the foreseeable future." That is a big thing to say and is completely different than what was stated. He specifically said, "PvP is not a top priority. It could be later on down the road maybe." Just because something isn't "top priority" doesn't mean it won't/can't be addressed at all here and there. How do we know PvP not being "top priority" doesn't mean a tweak or two every few game updates? Are you aware that the power glitch, which originated from Legends PvP was patched about two months or so ago (It was not listed in any of the patch notes as it was a ninja tweak)? That was a glitch that made Arenas even more broken, yet it was patched.

Can you deny that he stated that the team still wants to work on it? It's right at the bottom of his second post on this thread. Again, he also said when asked about small tweaks, "Perhaps". That implies possibility, which again referencing the glitch that was patched that I just mentioned, is very real. With all this in mind, how can you suggest that no further changes to PvP are possible?

I can't understand why there are people seeming to oppose those who are trying to jump at an opportunity to have PvP worked on in any way If you don't care for/about PvP, you could say that and be done with it, but why argue against people trying to help get work done on it?

There is if you can clip weapons and powers without any discernible animation whatsoever due to precision that is virtually impossible for most human players.

This is from a theoretical standpoint, of course, since I've never personally used macros, though I know what they're capable of.