Test Discussion Augments

it's game breaking because they're already taking health and power in to account with every mod.

adding more health to stats that have already been considered is well quite frankly referred to in lay mans terms as "double dipping".

In any case you can see my example above, health needs a little tweak imo but it's not very far off.

There's nothing actually stopping a tank from putting some resto in right now, as long as they kept dominance at a satisfactory level as well in terms of their augments.

So it's gamebreaking now, but not before?

It's gamebreaking to create mods that boost health at the expense of other stats? Or boost power at the expense of other stats?

You're giving feedback on a system that hasn't been implemented yet, but somehow it is gamebreaking?

Under the new system health is accounted for on *every augment (so is power)

If you were to spec full health on a character on live, you'd get a set amount of health from mods and affinities, tanks would have the highest amount, from their health and dominance mods and resto health mods etc.

Under the new system they have and are attempting to account for that health on every augment, therefore there is no requirement to include additional health on top of that.

Effectively if you were to compare the new augment to the old mod system, all the augments would be

Health & Power & Vit
Health & Power & Resto
Health & Power & Dominance
Health & Power & Precision
Health & Power & Might


If you were to add power and health augments they'd become

Health & Power & Power
Health & Health & Power

If they were to do this they'd have to take in to account how much additional health they would provide and I would anticipate the result would not meet the players expectations in terms of the ones that want such mods.

When you look at my example above as well you'll see even in tank stance, the mods are providing health pretty much equal to that of any other health mods they'd have spec'd in to as a more common occurrence.

If you can find some outliers, let's work with them. If you think you've got some examples you want me to replicate, feel free to private message me the details and we'll work through them and see where they fall

Comparison #2 - again someone else's live build as a healer

Water Healer - Live - Mera 205 Gear - Starheart Fragment 80 - Soul Scrap Aritfact 59

1 Resto Prec Special Forces

1 Resto Might Special Forces

2 Resto Health Special Forces

6 Resto Power Special Forces

4 Restoration Goons of Gotham Generator Mods - 125 Restoration each

40,683 Health

32,038 Power

17,346 Defense

16,487 restoration

211 Dominance

Water Healer - Test - Mera 205 Gear - Starheart Fragment 80 - Soul Scrap Artifact 59

No resto generator mods

Restoring Cybernetic Augment - Rank 0

Restoring Cybernetic Augment - Rank 0

Restoring Metagene - Rank 193

Restoring Metagene - Rank 193

Restoring Metagene - Rank 193

Restoring Metagene - Rank 193

42,929 Health - gain 2,246

32,026 Power - loss 12

17,347 Defense - gain 10

15,552 Restoration + 500 gen mods = 16,052 - loss 435 *there's likely a discrepancy here in not being able to add gen mods and 1% artifact creating a discrepancy, the loss here is probably negligible.

211 Dominance

only a slight loss of power in this example and possibly a very tiny restoration loss but as I can't get to my base I can't check exactly what this is, it's all pretty negligible.

There are gains here too between the new augments and the special forces mods - this type of character will benefit from the system change.

It might indicate that power and health in the context of all things needs tiny amounts of tweaking of course.

I really wish you would combine Precision and Might into 1 Combat Origin Augment and 1 Generator Mod.
I feel limited to having to commit to Weapons or Powers.
Switching between the two on one toon is not a viable option right mow.
It's time to free up flexibility in combat.

Why do we get so many different augmnets. I WISH you just add Precion and Might to all Support augmnents instead of having specific Dps augments. We need more support roles and easier way to dual role. Otherwise, everybody will try to first max out their dps role first.

I see it as the more things get combined, the less choice we have to specialize, and the more it trends towards less diversity. I see it as trying to leave as much flexibility as possible. @Almighty, same with combining might and precision. They’d have to account for it and we’d end up with split mod stats, which would mean lower numbers. Min/Max-ing windows would be further restricted. There’s no wrong answer here though at the end of the day, but I’d like as much flexibility left in the system as possible(what the devs are comfortable with). It looks like the only ones who would have to adjust would be heavy health or heavy power modders. And honestly it doesn’t seem too drastic, especially with artifact effects.

Don't know if this has been asked or not yet but what happens to the R&D Plans that use old Exobytes like the supplies 3 plans
for pvp debuff grenade and the speed exobyte plans and speed exobyte itself??

What are the other generator mods on the live character. If the pool stat is power, each goons power gen mod gives 941 power (at least from what I could find online). So with even 1 of those green mods you come out ahead, if you aren't using them on test (either not installed it generator powered down).

On resto, are you sure the live stat is a base value with no buff cola, compound Omega, etc active?

When I was on test Sunday to try and help with a raid run, it looked like my deeds went back into my inventory. So I used one to quickly create a base. My generator was powered down, but that may just have been from not playing on test in a while. You should be able to do the same and check that your base is powered up, and gen mods are active on test for a proper comparison. You could also get an additional deed from one of the test vendors if you don't see one in your inventory.

My suggestion would be to have them make pure health and pure power augments that players can choose to use if they want. That way they can keep their freedom of flexibility.

In other words, these augements would be Power (0 Health) and Health (0 Power, 0 Might).

Would it unbalance the system? No, because to equip them you'd have to sacrifice one of your other augments. This allows tanks that want to spec heavily into health to be able to, but not without sacrificing dom (which is next-to-worthess for some tanks) as a tradeoff.

The same thing for trolls who prefer to debuff heavily and want to focus on max power at the expense of vitalization.

If you're arguing that the devs don't have the flexibility to accodomate this, at the testing phase, that's pretty ridiculous.

As for the amount of health you have at 87,000, that's what my fire tank has if I equip 0 mods and only 100 sp specced into health. It's pretty low for a fire tank.

I'm pushing for more variety, and to suggest it's somehow gamebreaking is pretty funny considering it's been in the game for the past 7 years. Reducing options was done in Skyforge and it practically ruined the entire game.

And finally, it's ironic that some players are on here crying about not having every single ounce of might they have on live, but if someone else wants to have every ounce of health or power they have on live, it's somehow "gamebreaking"? Long live DPS universe online, huh?

Not sure why you chose this example (healer with split resto/health mods) since of course the stats are going to be almost equal.

Try comparing a troll with pure power mods on live vs. the new system on test. I may do so myself if I can suceed in getting test to install, lol. (I hate Windows Update)

So if someone on live used pure resto mods mostly, they would also lose resto under this conversion? That's incredible. Guess the devs want to push us all into the same little mold as far as roles go. Pretty sad. But at least dps get to keep all of their might.

From a PVE perspective their approach does make sense since everyone benefits, but at the same time some tanks would use full health mods, not full mixed health mods.

And personally for me, I stated before that in PVP I use dom/power mixed mods. I preferred power over might since power is more versatile where it helps with using more damaging powers, shields, and breakouts, instead of just increasing damage. That said, I felt that having a unique build and the extra power over other players gave me a real advantage as it'd help me outlast them in a sense. However with this approach, everyone in PVP whether in arenas or open world will benefit from the innate power...

Don't get me wrong, this is great news since dual roles have been accounted for. But what about PVP gear? There may be a small percentage of us that plays dual roles AND doesn't use the same mods we would use on our PVE gear. For example I use vitalization mods on my PVE troll, precision mods on my PVE DPS, and Dominance/power mods on my PVP gear.
In transition to augments that would be 4 vitalization augments, 4 precision augments, 2 dominance augments, and 2 power augments (if they existed).
Like I said it's a small percentage of players that play dual roles AND use different mods in PVP, but I think we should still be compensated for it.
If it doesn't happen, then what I see is either (unique) PVP builds would have to change to utilize the augments for an optimal build... and that limits the builds in terms of what they can revolve around. and that, negates one of the purposes of the stat revamp: having the freedom to make diverse loadouts.

BUG:

You dont get any Exo-Material in Central-City (if you collect the glowing stuff)

(You dont get anything at all)

We definetelly need flexibility, but combining prec and might may cause some big issues, like hybrid being the only possible way to play or making the powers that aren't good with weapons even worse.

I think Superboy suggestion was a little better, but if it is not possible to do because of tech, they should definetelly consider doing something to help with it.

FYI- I actually have a fully geared/modded (205 Mera gear with OP neck) on Live. It's modded with six full NJU Resto mods; the rest split. With no base mod affinity bonuses, Atlantean gen mods, a Demon's Fang at 120 (4% Resto), and Resto capped in the Skill Point tree, I'm sitting at 18,218 Resto. Equalizing at @99% due to having a 1% advantage vs. Proxy's Test example (1% Affinity + 2% Starheart vs 4% Demon Fang), that brings us to @18,000 Resto on Live vs. Proxy's example of @16,000 to 16,500 on Test.

If this update represents a 1.5K to 2.0K Resto loss for my build, it's basically stat clamping and requiring me to re-grind stats I already have. I'm beginning to wonder if anything other than might-based DPS builds were considered when this project was conceived.

Have a question as to the PvP portion and the clamps. Just like on live now, we have clamps on stats in pvp. Can we get the base numbers, please? I ask because we need to spec differently for pvp, compared to pve. If say might is clamped by the stats from your augment. You'd want to know what that magic number is, so as not to waste SP.

As it is currently. To respec for pvp is a pain. This doesn't help with getting people in there either. I'm crossing my fingers, since you are very into the data currently and looking to release some notes. Can we have the clamped numbers range, please?

Thanks!

Well then the best thing that type of player can do is hop on test compare an identical build to that of their live character and see how much health, if any is being lost and then post the data.

It's no good just coming in and telling the devs, I want health, you need to come in and show them why you're using health and why the new system is falling short, so they can decide whether they want to tweak anything.

Due to variations in gen mods equipped, sp allocation, gear, league Hall bonuses, etc. it's probably better to just look and the value of the stats provided by new Justice mods (and possible affinity bonuses) and compare that to what you get from augments.

For reference, here are the values provided from New Justice mods.
178 Might
111 Precision
89 Dominance
55 Vitalization
55 Restoration
244 Health (on split mods)
367 Power (on split mods)

If what Avair said about clamped stats in PvP holds true for what you should expect as comparable stats at end game, you should see essentially 10 times you main stat value listed above + 10 times the split power value listed above + 10 times the health value listed above being given by the 6 augments leveled per Avair's comments. So a healer should see 550 resto, 3670 power, and 2440 health from just the 6 augments.

For reference, here is the comment Avair made about stats from augments in PvP. For comparison of live mods to augments, I would expect you substitute New Justice Underground mods for T6e mods.

Edit: when I get on tonight, I'll report what I'm seeing for values from augments.

It is possible that restoration is going to fall a little bit, possibly, yes and now that I've posted that data it at least gives the developers something to look at.

I tested DPS a lot earlier as well in my very first point where I raised this and showed you the small "might decrease" remember I said there was a missing 1000 might, and then with the augments it's fallen to slightly less than that.

It's not pushing people in to the same little mold at all, it's just a different fruit being used to deliver the stats and it has some quirks.

You have to bear in mind one system is an apple, the other is an orange, they're not going to be completely identical, only as 'similar as possible'.

Again the more data you can give the developers the better, compare some characters and post the feedback.