Test Discussion Water Powers

Meh, I rarely test because the server is always down for some reason. Maybe it is just something on my end.

My fault, did not see the announcement.

Why was Tempest Guard touched at all?... It didn't need the latest change to it :/, if it's not 100% it doesn't matter since 75% or 85% we won't be able to use it to pick people up or do cogs, in fact this ruins the ability even more now since for the 85% mitigation the damage cap and duration have been reduced...

I don't see the trade-off being worthwhile? 10% more mitigation for less duration AND less damage cap?

Edit - I just had someone told me the duration was reduced to 6s... WHY? 450 Power Cost, 18s Cooldown and it lasts for 6s???

Water doesn't have constant ways to heal people, it needs the duration on those shields for as long as possible since your bound by riptide otherwise to try and help off-set them, and if you run Tempest Guard you'll need Solace to ensure you don't waste cooldowns on the damage people take with the Guard up, you also need Bubble specifically because it's a 100% mitigation shield for pick ups or objectives, there aren't enough loadout slots to make sure you have the ability to heal someone outside spamming the priority...

Please for the love of Poseidon undone this change that no one asked!!!

well if was in doubt if i´d use bubble or tempest now at least i don´t the doubt anymore

So, I've seen plenty of people ask for it, but, we're not getting Solace Of The Sea as a dps power also? Shame not to be able to use a pretty good looking power.

Shark frenzy is making my character walk forward. Which makes DPSing with this power quite uncomfortable. So, I think it really needs a fix!
And, by the way, if the name of the power is shark frenzy, shouldn't it spawn more than one shark. Just a thought...

man people really can't stand if their character moves. How do you people play with handblasters? Why don't you guys complain about dual pistols?

stop complaining about your character moving because it ends up looking like Tsunami strikes. Man up, and move back. We can't keep making useless changes that cause animations to look terrible simply because you cannot handle slightly moving forward and having to move back.

Tsunami strikes now looks like your feet are completely skipping a frame of animation and it looks really bad.

Sums up why the duration shouldnt have been touched at all and wondering why it wasnt even mentioned in the patch notes.

Trust me i know where your coming from with Call Of the Deep I was expect much more visual wise like a Giant Whale...

The trade-off wasn't meant to be a one to one change. Water was performing better than other healers and this ability as it was allowed Water users too much of a passive playstyle. We want the abilities healers get at that cost to require some forethought on when to cast them instead of just being part of a rotation. Now Tempest Guard sits in a better spot when compared to other powersets large cost heals like Bio-Capacitor, Virtuous Light, Bloom, and Invocation of Renewal. It can also not be forgotten that Water has Riptide to allow for Tempest Guard to be used more often.

So, now like Bio-Capac, it will almost never be included in a loadout cause it is not worth the space on your bar. I have never figured out why you are so insistent on creating abilities that are so situational that they are not worth it - either rework those abilities or give us more space on the ability bar.

I would love to see you data, per powerset, on which abilities are used from most to least often.

I thought we just went through months of a revamp so that we could use almost any power combination and set. In reality, each powerset has an ideal loadout to use. Instead of the previous 1,2,3,4 it is just a new 1,2,3,4 and instead of it being obvious, you now have to re-test to get to the new ideal 1,2,3,4.

First may I ask how it was concluded that Water was a step above the other power sets?

I can understand your reasoning for this change but whilst the change may have been done to promote healthier play it hurts the power set a lot because despite Riptide it's bound by long cooldowns and abilities which actually don't do anything but supplement another one limiting actual healing ability due to loadout spaces.

Nature has Savage Growth, Metabolism and Cross Pollination at 3s each, but also has the passive healing of it's Pheromones which can be consumed with Roar which has 1.5s CD or refreshed with Flourish which has a 6s CD

So standard loadouts that could be used are:

Swarm Shield, Metabolism, Blossom/Roar/Bloom, Savage Growth, CrossPol/Bloom/Roar, and Flourish

Electric has Arc Lightning with a 3s CD as well as Galvanize with also a 3s CD, there's also some leeway with Bio Caps Safety Net despite it being a 18s CD

So standard loadouts that could be used are:

Arc/Galvanize, Bio Surge, Recover, Electroburst/Galvanize/Electrogenesis, Flux, Bio Capacitor/Galvanize/Electrogenesis

Celestial has Consume Soul and it's combo variant both at 1.5s CD, Admonish has an extra ability attached to it at 3s CD not to mention now there is the option to do the same now with Renew and Blessing.

So standard loadouts that could be used are:

Blessing, Renew, Virtuous Light, Admonish, Consume Soul, WOTPcCS/Guardians Light

Water has outside of the standard choices on a loadout has Solace which has a 12s CD, Tsunami Strikes which is 1.5CD but only heals one person at a time and Tempest Guard which is 18s CD. And then there's the option of Riptide at 12s CD. I do not consider High Tide to be a worthy spot for a healer especially now with this change, too many limitations in terms of the bonus not being effective enough for certain abilities as well as you basically need Tsunami Strikes to make regular use of it.

So standard loadouts that could be used are:

Bubble/Tempest Guard, Soothing Mist, The four man heal, The eight man heal, Solace/Tempest Guard, Riptide/Tempest Guard/Tsunami Strikes

So, most of these loadouts promote a burst type playstyle mainly as in mine and other peoples opinion on the forums that HoTs are too weak right now. Water has one HoT which you can have two of if you sacrifice a loadout space for Riptide and commit to always using it for Solace. The issue with this is if you do that you're limited to three healing abilities and a shield which at times may not be enough to heal incoming damage, using Solace on it's own doesn't feel worth it as the strength isn't that effective.

So then in another scenario you have Tempest with Bubble and Riptide, this way you're not bound to need to use Riptide for Solace you can use it freely in conjunction with the other abilties, It is not realistic to expect to use Riptide for Tempest Guard since the way you're explaining it you want us to use it sparingly and only in important situations and as it is not mitigating 100% there can be situations where another healing ability has to be used to cover the damage which means Riptide essentially is ineffective in resetting the CD of Tempest Guard meaning there can be situations where your entire bar is on cooldown besides the ability of spamming the priority and using the four man heal when it's up.

It's also not realistic for us to use Riptide on Bubble either as I'm sure doing this would result in a chance of it going to the same 3 people but it's not unreasonable to say you could do this, in fact it would require some attention from the player to only use it once other people have lower health than whoever currently has a shield. But then your not healing for this duration because otherwise Riptide can't reset Bubbles CD. This is in a raid setting though, for alerts this is straight up busted since you can have Bubble up 100% of the time provided it doesn't end up breaking.

I would also expect in a raid setting for Bubble to be the mandatory shield healers use and Tempest being an option on another slot on your bar mainly because of pickups and helping to do objectives with no interruptions. I would also think with the latest change only having Tempest as your only shield would be a mistake due to it's 6s duration.

But say you decide to use Tempest, Solace and Tsunami Strikes along with the three main healing abilities, it becomes too difficult to manage the cooldowns mainly as Tsunami Strikes targets one person at a time, Solace is weak and the eight man heal is much weaker than the majority of all other eight man heals available to us. Much like Electric the playstyle will be managing your cooldowns but Water will have a much harder time doing this because it has limited options and weaker healing in a few of it's abilties meaning you'd have a red loadout more often not much option of sustainable healing across time (Not HoTs, more like your just standing around waiting for cooldowns).

With Tempest lasting for 12s it obviously meant there was more leeway in using certain cooldowns and whilst this change may prevent more damage for a shorter duration you'll have a deadspot on your loadout for the remainder of the duration since you can't expect us to Tempest Guard > Wait 6s not casting anything > Riptide > Tempest Guard and the inclusion of Riptide just means another deadspot since it only provides Utility.

I don't think water has many powers that can destroy objects?

Shark and Tsunami Strikes can't destroy objects. I haven't tested other powers.

Im sorry but 11 k dps is not going to cut it thats not balanced its severly underpowered and needs a buff all around water at this junction is just a mid tier dps no better than qauntum its pathetic and a waste of Time to go to in the devs best interest i would buff this power for sales or gg. Who really cares to go this power its horrible

This power is severly underperforming on the dps side compared to rage and gadgets.

11 k dps compared to 15 k dps with rage thats not gonna cut it for water

Water was absolutely fine before the update u guys did

Water dpsing was fine before the update u guys did

Im just saying its better if we hit the devs now before they drop a garbage power.When i said 11 k dps i was going off a video i seen from my friend Codextraperformance he clocked 11.7 k dps With rage on Live i clock around 15-16 k dps

Yes i said this power has hit garbage level its very disappointing .Quite frankly i wont be using a respec for water until drastic changes are made

Even on live with water wat u clock 13-14 maybe i mean thats not very impressive

This is so sad a power would get demolished by the devs like this a power alot of people initially thought looked bad in terms of graphics already .To top it off u nerf the dps to garbage and take the healing sides appeal away.Devs listen to idiots or actually think the powers are balanced and there not u need to understand there not water will just be added to the line of underperforming powers, Qauntum, Celestial,Light,atomic,fire, and last and least effective ice and mental

I'm not trying to be a dick here, but if you have feedback it's better if you keep it all in one post. Posting messages one after another is just gonna be looked at as spam and more than likely skipped over.

I get 12k with 2k less Might as on live with one of the loadouts from youtube, didnt even thought about my own. That is still no Rage DPS but it is above middle ground.

I gotta go with the masses and say the duration change was unnecessary.

We got a cap changed down but at the same time the mitigation raised up (which is a nerf as Celestial Powers pointed out) and as a 3rd nerf we got a duration reduction. 3 nerfs in one hotfix. Why not step-by-step? Why not do one thing and see the impact and then may add another. We just hit the swing from a super good power (it definately was) to super bad in one hotfix. Totally unecessary. Not only is the DPS side mediocre but the healing just dropped heavily below the top healer powers too (no compensation for the borderline extreme Tempest Guard nerf). That power literally lost its appeal from a DPS and Healer role perspective over the course it was on test.

#sad

Ty whoever put it all in one post

I just going to say that you guys went overboard with this change on Tempest Guard making the ability pretty much useless, i´ll rather use bubble now that at least is going to help with pick ups than the "new" underwhelming Tempest Guard.

You guys honestly went one extreme to the other.

Im here for the dpsing aspect convince me why i should go water its not better than rage or gadgets

Its garbage