PvP and the Stat Revamp

Discussion in 'Testing Feedback' started by Lithiumz, Jun 22, 2017.

  1. Goddesssilver Well-Known Player

    If you gonna nerf shields for tanks buff their damage. 100% mitigation is alot but 35% - 50% nerfing seems excessive tanks should be tanks not weak dps's
  2. InnerBeast New Player

    I will be posting my solution to fixing shields in PvP later tonight once I am finished sorting and proofing it. Stay tuned peeps ✌️
  3. InnerBeast New Player

    I have a few suggestions and solutions to begin balancing PvP in the revamp.

    I'll start with trying to get the biggest issue tackled. I noticed that they said shield effectiveness got reduced in PvP. Yet they are still 100%, lasting seemingly 6 seconds, and stackable. There's literally no reduction. Definitely needs to be rechecked. The way shields are right now make ice and munitions the most op powers in PvP (ice having 3 rotatable shields and munitions having 2 spammable shields on top of a breakout shield, all of which stack, in DPS role smh) and they put healing powers at a disadvantage because they only have one. Tank and troll powers are automatically more survivable, on top of the fact that some of them also have slightly higher damage potential than healing powers and that causes imbalance.

    One thing that needs to be realized is that every concept can't be the exact same for EVERY power. You have some powers with 1 shield, effect, then others with 2, and others with 3. You literally cannot make them all the same strength and duration. That is the definition of imbalance. Time for diversity.

    My first and foremost suggestion is to make shields health based, not duration based. Shields should have a health limit so that they are breakable. All shields in every power. They can last 6 seconds given they aren't broken before that, the latter being the more likely outcome. That way, combat won't feel absolutely futile when your opponent pops a shield because there's no chance of damaging them until time runs out. That's broken.

    Going deeper into that, the limit of each shield should be a set number (not affected by any stats) based on the overall potential of the power. I want to note that I am primarily talking in terms of DPS role potential of every power since that is the most prevalent role in PvP and it should always be primarily offensive with little defensive focus from power moves.

    Heal Powers
    • Heal powers have only one shield and no breakouts. With that fact in motion, along with the fact that they don’t absolutely destroy the other powers in damage out, they should be the foundation on which you create balance with shields.
    • Their shields should have the highest health limit, hands down. So let's just throw out some tweak-able example numbers to help embody this idea: 1000-1100 damage, or have 1000-1100 health before breaking on a heal power shield. I’ll call this the Shielding Effect (don’t judge my corny naming, as long as it makes sense). Otherwise it runs out in 6 seconds, maybe shorter. So this would apply to:
      • Swarm Shield
      • Boon of Souls
      • Flux
      • Blessing
    • Alongside that, I’ll also say that celestial’s corrupted blessing should NOT shield. For any duration. The damage from that move is devastating enough, it should not be a defensive ability alongside blessing.
    Troll Powers
    • Most of the troll powers have two shields, one of which doubles as a breakout. I don’t feel that breakouts should have a legit shielding effect in PvP, but …… I'd say give them an unbreakable 1 second timed shield duration, or basically the length of the animation. I’ll call this the Breakout Effect. So it saves you for a blink of an eye but doesn't double a second shield, or else it would grant the huge leap of advantage over healing powers who only bear one.
    • Gadgets:
      • Distract should be the only shield. It’s also a breakout, but the Shielding Effect would take priority.
      • Neural Neutralizer should have the Breakout Effect, since it deals damage and CC.
    • Munitions is one of the wonky powers and main issues when it comes to shielding because for some reason, Rocket Retreat and Rocket Jump both grant shields and are damn near spammable. Bad combination, dev team. This is the solution I suggest:
      • Survival should be the only shield. It’s also a breakout, but the Shielding Effect would take priority.
      • Rocket Jump should be a normal damage move, no shielding effect.
      • Rocket Retreat should be a pure breakout, under the Breakout Effect. It should deal no damage. It would be similar to Quantum Tunneling, a literal “oh sh*t” button, which would be really cool, animation-wise.
    • Mental currently has three shielding effects. This is how I would sort them:
      • Telekinetic Shield should be the only shield, under the Shielding Effect.
      • Grandeur should be a pure breakout, under the Breakout Effect.
      • Reflect Pain should have no shielding effect, just the damage reflection. It should be more of a passive offense ability than a defensive ability.
    • Light:
      • Light Barrier is the only shield. It’s also a breakout, but the Shielding Effect should take priority.
    • Quantum:
      • Time Bubble should be the only shield, under the Shielding Effect.
      • Quantum Tunneling should be a pure breakout, under the Breakout Effect.
    • With that being said, from what I've tested and posted on my YT channel, the heal powers and troll powers are all generally competitive with each other damage wise (with the exception of HL) but the fact that troll powers have an "oh sh*t" button they can use and healing powers don't, their shields should be a bit weaker. So, in relation to the 1000-1100 I threw on healing power shields, I'd put gadgets, mental, quantum, and munitions’ shields at like 700-800 health. So this would apply to:
      • Distract
      • Survival
      • Telekinetic Shield
      • Time Bubble
    • Light’s Light Barrier should be weaker than the other troll shields, and one of the weakest shields on the game: between 400-500 health. Yup, I said it. On top of the fact that I think shields shouldn't even be RELIED on in DPS role in PvP, a power with that much spam and damage potential shouldn't be able to defend as well as powers that NEED to incorporate weapon damage to be just as or more effective. Just about every MMO has at least one strong but squishy class right? So now HL players will have to play smarter because their guard is down more. Problem with that? Just means you gotta be skilled with all that potential. Get that counter game up. HL has been op in PvP long enough and to be honest it probably still would be op somehow, sadly. Moving on…
    • Like x 1
  4. InnerBeast New Player

    Tank Powers
    • Tank power shields will probably be the most diverse because they all kinda play different. Like troll powers, they all have a breakout and I feel that the same Breakout Effect should apply to them as troll powers.
    • Fire has the ability to heal considerably well on top of having nice DPS burn. And a lot of people are gonna wanna go resto-spec in DPS role and try to heal back everything while slapping you just as hard as you are hitting them. Part of the reason fire is op on live server. Even the non resto-spec heals can carry.
    • Now that fire has a shield (Immolation), that can really amplify it's healing ability in DPS role. I will say that the heals of stoke flames and burning determination aren't as bad in the general number ranges in this revamp as they are on live, but Backdraft can carry. Burst heal plus burst damage every time you pop it. This grants an advantage over certain powers. If they make restoration and healing crits non-effective in DPS role, then its regular heals won't be a problem. But since they most likely wont do that for the sake of stats mattering, and I’m not necessarily asking them to, Immolation should take a direct blunt hit. To counter that, the solution is simple:
      • Backdraft no longer heals in DPS role.
      • Burning Determination only triggers heals after 3 hits in DPS role, like on live server currently, instead of 10 hits as if you are in tank role.
    • Otherwise, based on it's really decent damage potential and it's effective healing ability (and how you are able to amplify the heals with your mods and skill points) AND a breakout, fire's shield should have around 500-600 health. Nerf the healing ability with the solution above, Immolation could be a little stronger at like 700-750 health.
    • Rage is the exact same as hard light. The spam ability and damage consistency is far too great for it to have a solid defense as well in DPS role. Based on the combos being invulnerable, having a breakout, AND the shield reflecting damage, Redirected Rage should have a strength of 400-500 health. Nothing more to be said.
    • Earth has a really solid power damage potential but it’s not op. You still need a weapon to be the maximum level of effective. It’s generally balanced and very versatile. I don’t know exactly how the pets are going to be because to my knowledge, they still die in a combo and a half so I’m not going to factor that into the mix yet. My suggestion for Gemstone Shield:
      • 1 Stone = 200 health
      • 2 Stone = 400 health
      • 3 Stone = 600 health
      • 4 Stone = 700-800 health (I wanna say 750 because the last aftershock does deal damage but I’m not sure. Maybe 800 wouldn't matter.)
    • Atomic is kinda in the same category as fire when it comes to carrying heal ability in DPS role, although I will say that it isn’t as bad as fire. On live, at least. With the combos being vulnerable on live, it’s hard to keep the aura up to better the heals outside of starting it for a few seconds before the fight or building supercharge to pop Energize. On revamp though, with combos being NON vulnerable, you can resto-spec and damn near tank in DPS role with those enhanced heals, consistently able to shortcut the aura and not get countered. My solution is simple:
      • Quark-Gluon Aura has no effect on heals in DPS role, only in tank.
    • Otherwise, Density has to take a direct hit. Because with all that heal ability, spammable and non-vulnerable power damage, and a breakout, all in DPS role, why do you need a strong shield too? Right? Density should be at about 500-600 health.
    • Ice is the shield master, and I don't want it to lose that reputation. But honestly all those shields in DPS role is broken, can’t deny that. That survivability advantage is too big to be outside of tank, which a DPS shouldn’t be. My suggestion:
      • Winter Ward is the only shield, under the Shielding Effect.
      • Shatter Restraints is a pure breakout, under the Breakout Effect.
      • Reflection should have no shielding effect, just the damage reflection. It should be more of a passive offense ability than a defensive ability.
    • Under this solution, I would put Winter Ward at about 700-750 health.
    Iconic Shields
    • I personally don’t like the idea of Hard Light Shield being 100% and used alongside the default shield for added survivability, maybe because I personally wouldn’t play that way and wouldn’t need to play that way. But I can’t say that it should just be rendered useless based off my opinion alone. Everything else is in this post is fact based so I have to stay on that course. HLS should be an additional shield that is weaker than any default power shield. If Rage and HL have shields at 400-500 in this example range, HLS should be at 300 health. So it can give more survivability, but it isn’t a something that necessarily guarantee a win.
    • I honestly do not know what the devs are doing with Amazonian Deflection, but on the tool tip it says its a shield AND a block, AND it reflects damage. Last time I tested it and fought against someone who was using it, I seen that it counts as a block but you can still instantly move out of the animation. I could pop the move, someone would try to block break me, but I could instantly lunge out of the animation and counter them instead. B-R-O-K-E-N. What in THE world? I will go on and test it again soon to see if there have been any changes but I haven’t seen anything about it in the test notes. Hopefully i missed something and it’s fixed? But if not, then this move DEFINITELY:
      • Should not Shield. For ANY duration.
      • If it counts as a block, then you need to be locked in that animation for a certain amount of time. Which would almost guarantee you to get block broken. That’s not practical. So:
      • Should not count as a block
      • Should purely reflect damage. It should be more of a passive offense ability than a defensive ability.
    • Amazonian Deflection needs not to be changed from the way it is on live.
    Conclusion

    I don’t have much else to say. I have thought out this idea for days now, and now that I finally have it all laid out, I would like to hear feedback. Anything I could have missed, anything other possible accompanying ideas and/or opposing ones. I just feel like this foundation being put into play would really be a huge step in the direction of balance in PvP.
    • Like x 1
  5. TiGGeR.TSK Well-Known Player

    Pvp for tanking feels really bad its like your not a tank. It's like your a squish dps without the damage Unless your atomic. Devs pls add specific role buffs per power like before or else roles will still no longer matter and it will still be a dps master race pls look into this.
    • Like x 1
  6. TiGGeR.TSK Well-Known Player

    Tanks need to be able to survive like back in the day t3-t4 era and dpses should only get a portion of a tanks ability to make it fair. Cause right now any dps can defeat a good a tank on test
    • Like x 1
  7. Goddesssilver Well-Known Player

    Couldn't have said it any better myself