Stats Revamp 1.8: Nature

Discussion in 'Stats Revamp Archive' started by Shin-O-B, Jun 22, 2017.

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  1. Jacob Dragonhunter Steadfast Player

    Feedback and suggestions:

    Alright, I got through running two raids JFA and US(Ultimate Soldier) and here's the conclusions and suggestions I've gotten from playing nature melee hybrid dps.


    • Swarm : Okay one problem I have with Swarm here is that this pet has an extremely weird cooldown and duration. The Duration last's longer than it's cooldown, and that throws me off. While I was rotating through combos, whenever Swarm Came off cooldown he was still active; but I constantly kept recasting the power. It's not bad, but it makes dpsing with nature feel awkward especially in hybrid mode.
    • Harvest: From what I've tested you have roughly about 8 seconds to cast this thing to refresh your damage over-time, This is Inconvenient with some Hybrid builds. If you use a combo that's too long like let's say Shield's two-footed slam, that weapon combo will take too long and your dots will disappear before you get through with the combo. I was using Martial Arts Spin Punch in my Hybrid build and It was weird trying to rotate this between Harvest, Swarm, and Savage Growth/Voracious Plants. A possible fix for Swarm/Hybrid could be to make Swarm a possible clipping ability. Harvest could also benefit from an increase in it's burst damage, I only see about 3000 damage when I cast this thing and I feel that's too weak for a 300 power cost.
    • Dot damage is bugged. Like CrappyHeals said, the damage overtime isn't splitting properly. I noticed the damage was ticking 1800 average over multiple targets with no difference. The Dot Damage Abilities like Vine Lash and Briar should have a damage increase maybe about 200? I think a medium power cost for nature should be okay for buffing the damage overtime aspect of this powerset.
    Alright I know this is a lot of feedback so I'l go ahead and TL;DR it.
    • Swarm feels awkward to use, if he could be tweaked or be clippable that would be greatly appreciated imo.
    • Harvest should be extended to allow more long input combos to be used more with hybrid builds. And I think the burst damage should be increased.
    • Dot damage needs to be buffed and needs to be fixed so it'll split properly.
    • It plays well enough and is pretty fun to use, it's just the damage isn't quite there with the other powersets from what I've noticed.
    If the dot damage gets buffed enough, I'll probably end up making me a nature toon on live.
  2. CrappyHeals Devoted Player

    • Like x 2
  3. Jacob Dragonhunter Steadfast Player

    Okay, I'll keep this in mind.

    If Harvest does have a 11 second refresh rate, well it felt shorter than that when I was using it today. Then again 8 to 11 seconds isn't that far of a gap.

    Thanks for the headsup.
    • Like x 1
  4. VioletSorceress Committed Player

    I dont get how u gonna extend Harvest itself exactly ?
    I personally try to refresh about each 8-9 secs. Waiting about 11 sec is most likely to lose your DoTs.

    The only way to use Harvest in 12 sec intervals would be for Poison DoTs to be extended to have extra number of ticks which would be interesting alternative since Devs seem to be hesitant to give us higher per tick buff.

    To be honest, both Poisons and Pheromones lasting longer with additional ticks might be the best solution for all of Nature's problems.
  5. stärnbock Devoted Player

    i must say, i liked more the fast burst mechanic...
  6. stärnbock Devoted Player

    i might have missed something, but i cant realy make a loadout without roar... PFTT, i stack dots with serpent call, vine lash, briar, carnivorous plants (guess they count too, are they?) and refresh them with harvest before i do a roar... i tryied different builds with wolf supercharge. yet i think that since the last update, the possibilities for any other loadout has drasticly decreased, leaving no room in the loadouts for other stuff than DOT and roar... well, my oppinion: we need more burst options, and should be less forced to have three dots in our loadouts for variation... maybe someone has a burst loadout for me to try out? because i cant come up with anything...

    QUESTION:
    thorn burst is not working correctly, and how it is currently, it is basicly no use for anything. what are the plans for thorn burst?
  7. CrappyHeals Devoted Player

    This build of nature gives way more options for laodouts then the last or any other versions nature has seen. Last time all the dots shared the same poison so you only had one and all you did was put a dot out and take it away over and over. It was super repetitive and boring.

    This version of nature gives you many more choices. You can use a full dot loadout, 2 dots with 2 burst, one dot with serpent call, swarm and 2 bursts. Then you can change it up and use melee with thorn burst and what ever combo of dots and burst you want. Theres many builds i was playing with and they all flow very well. What i like is your not always forced to run 3 dots like in the past, with the addition of savage growth being a hard hitting burst and serpent call being a instant aoe dot you can make a build for any situation and nature is more versatile then ever imo. All that needs to be worked on are some bugs, quality of life things and damage adjustments and natures pretty set.

    The only thing i didn't mess with to much was roar cause its not working properly at the moment.
    • Like x 3
  8. Jacob Dragonhunter Steadfast Player

    Well for me I was using MA spin punch which roughly takes about 4 seconds to complete using that combo since it's your only Melee Aoe within Martial arts that does any sort of good.

    So I do refresh the dots at about 8 to 9. Basically here's what I was doing last night.

    Swarm*cast this guy first* Then get your dots going: Seperent Call, Vine Lash, Briar, Harvest. And then for the last slot I use Savage Growth(For Raids or where there's a troller) or V-Plants for solos and duos.

    While I have my dots up and running I usually rotate between spin punch into Savage Growth, and then I do Spin Punch into Harvest; and then into swarm every now and then.

    It felt a little bit clunky while using MA's spin punch, so maybe using something like Rifle could help out but then I'd probably swap out the burst power for a Supercharge.

    Honestly I'm not sure on them extending Harvest is a good idea right now, especially since long chain combos like Shield and MA aren't being taken into account. So for the meantime being, just forget I said that.
  9. VioletSorceress Committed Player

    Doing specific melee combos is pointless since random melee weapon taps deal about same damage.

    If things were making any sense weapon damage wise, Shield's 3 range Hold attack lines perfectly with Savage Growth's cooldown but again if you wanna push melee, random taps clipped at any point work better.
  10. Jacob Dragonhunter Steadfast Player


    Well that's the rotation I used last night. I seriously hope they reconsider there current setup with weapons.

    Taps should not, be doing the same as a regular combo. Animation time being the only factor is what's messing up weapons, It should be animation time and input.

    Honestly the only reason I tested out MA was to see how it was performing, and it's terrible from my point of view.
  11. stärnbock Devoted Player

    i agree, though i had a hard time learning nature... but i guess i found a nice 2 DOT and 2 burst loadout...
    however: last time i was on test i found the thorn shield not dealing waaay enough dammage for the cost...
    in the other post earlier i was confusing thorn shield with thorn burst, my bad, im sorry ^^'
  12. CrappyHeals Devoted Player

    Yea Thorn burst does need a buff, for a 300 power cost melee only ability the damage is pretty low i'd like to see it be brought up.
    • Like x 1
  13. Xibo Loyal Player

    What's the PFTT loadout that you are using?
  14. McShotzz Well-Known Player

    Just wondering how the healing side is in this iteration?
  15. Xibo Loyal Player

    Feedback

    - Increase the damage from Serpent Call.
    - Increase the damage from Thorn Burst.
    - Increase to 8 targets instead of 1 the damage from Briar and on the same time increase your own damage too.
    - Increase to 8 targets instead of 1 the damage from Vine Lash and on the same time increase your own damage too.
    - Reduce the power cost from Harvest to 100.

    Question

    - Could Swarm be a permanent pet?
  16. stärnbock Devoted Player

    starting with briar, then voracious plants, harvest, roar and finaly savage growth.
    you can also take out savage growth and have impaling thorns for the execution.
    also, i have wolf form SC and am basicly doing the same there and except swarm.
    • Like x 1
  17. Cold Fusion Well-Known Player

    So let me start out with the fact I spent my SP 1 way and tested various powers against nature with same spec.

    So 1 stack didn't work .. But 3 stacks puts us right back where we are with live. The time to set up kills DPS. Two stacks that are more powerful will be way better. They also need to be multi target.

    Before y'all testers go crazy let's think about it. On same Ads
    with my spec I set up three dots each tic 600 average non crit 1100 crit and that took me using 3 powers that cost power then I consume with roar immediately. Roar gives a 5000 non crit and 10000 crit consume burst plus it's own damage that gives 3 tics 2000 non crit 4000 crit. So 4 powers used ...

    So let's say every single tic and burst crit and the 1st stack tic 3 times 2nd stack 2 times and 3rd stack 1 time be for consume = 5 total damage tics so that's 5000 + 10000 from roar consume + 12000 from roar 3 tics .= 27000 if everything crit so that's best case scenario.

    ICE - dot was 700 non and 1200 crit tics and I tried many different powers most of would hit for 7000 non and 12000 -
    15000 crit. 1 power I tested even hit 10000 every time and crit 20000.

    So let's say every power didn't crit 7000 x4 powers = 28000 vs Nature all crit 27000

    Mental - again most powers 7000 non 12000 - 15000 crit and some of its powers have Dots hitting for 2000...

    Same 7000 non crit x4 powers = 28000 vs Nature 27000 all crit

    They will not buff the 3 stacks enough to over come this.... We will still get murdered on ads and be at the bottom again.

    We need 2 powerful dots and a quick consume... Not Roar.

    Let's not forget they will also clip through some of these powers and we can't clip through roar and clipping through a dot would be pointless. Also two stacks a single target so we have to spread those too.

    Some will say oh those were all high cost powers ... Actually alot weren't... But for the sake of argument let's say they were all high cost powers they will still cola and supply drop through all the ads and destroy us right? Yes they will.

    I also left out the fact that when you Cola
    . supply drop or trinket burst powers give more bang for your buck.
  18. Xibo Loyal Player

    I also think that should be only 2 powerful DoTs too. Briar and Vine Lash inflicting 3000 damage non-crit each one, for example.
  19. CrappyHeals Devoted Player

    You'll get better results using savage growth as a burst, 1. cause it doesn't remove your dots and 2. cause its instant damage unlike roar which is a slow channel. The only time i would consider using roar would be on adds right when they where about to die, other then that clearing your poisons in the middle of a fight is a bad idea. Think of roar as a kinda finisher for adds not a burst power.

    I think nature works fine right now it just needs its damage raised up a bit and some better burst on the initial cast of the dots and it will be pretty solid.
    • Like x 1
  20. Cold Fusion Well-Known Player

    That's my point... You won't use it dots on ads because of set up time and damage loss... just burst powers and that means the whole consume mechanic is pointless. Ya roar is a channel so no one wants to use it. Most people will end up just using two dots to make room for more burst powers and supercharges... IMO

    Why take the time to revamp and put a mechanic in that is so bad.. . I don't agree.. Nature is not fine right now... It's underperforming in damage on almost all powers and roar needs to go away for heal and DPS side.
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