"The Flash Vanishes in Middle of Crisis"

Discussion in 'Joker’s Funhouse (Off Topic)' started by Multiverse Wanderer, Apr 1, 2016.

  1. Multiverse Wanderer Well-Known Player

    It's been a while since the man in yellow has posed a real threat for our favorite hero on the CW, and this last episode was a friendly reminder of all that has happened since season 1...but doesn't it feel like some if it is being swept under the rug?

    We got a nice sneak peak at Eobard Thawne's future newspaper (you'd think they'd have more conventional means of media in the future) and the infamous article written by Iris West-Allen. While I know Barry has been awfully busy trying to stop Zoom, who is probably going to hand-kill everyone on every Earth is he succeeds, what the hell is he going to do about the fact there is a future where he is nowhere to be found?

    Lets give the Scarlet Speedster a break for a moment, he's been through a lot the past few months as it is...lets discuss the contents of that same article. Well the article starts off saying (in my own summary) there was a battle with the Reverse Flash in which Green Arrow, Atom, and Hawkgirl came to assist the Flash. So I guess that means the Reverse Flash must have time traveled for a second face off with our hero, being from the 25th century and all. I know he was erased from existence and all, but that event, that moment in time when Eddie decides to take his own life for the greater good, is now etched into the timeline! It's bound to happen which means, how can the Reverse Flash be still going at it with Barry in 2024?

    Flashback let us know that Thawne was aware of other speedsters. We have no clue if he knows Zoom or not, he just said there are others. So could this be another inspired citizen who wants to meet their idol? A copy-cat speedster? Or what?

    If the Reverse Flash truly has been erased from existence, would this moment in 2024 fail to exist? Could the moment he vanishes be the moment he goes back in time to save himself (the night Nora dies)? Will we ever find out why he told himself not to save Nora?

    So many questions just from the lingering Season 1 story.

    I'm really intrigued about what you guys think of our little Infinite Crisis article here, let me know what your ideas are.
  2. IIThe QuestionII Loyal Player

    Well, there are many possible ways to go about this.
    1.- There have always been more than 1 reverse flash(es?), so we could possibly see another Zoom come into play.

    2.- A change in a past timeline only creates ramifications into said timeline, a bit paradoxical but reverse HAD to travel to the past so Eddie decided to kill himself which means theres a timeline in which he existed, being that the flash has always dealt with timey wimey stuff, it is possible to have that timeline come into conflict with the new present.

    3.-It is possible that the headline alluded to a different event and they play it like Eobbard's objective was only to make sure some things happened.

    4. The reverse flash we saw might have been a body double who was a medic brainwashed into thinking he was reverse flash so the real reverse flash can go under the radar to create a nation, giving the double the codename of venom-reverse flash or phantom-reverse-flash, but I may consider this an option only because im traumatized by a similar event D:
  3. HideTheBodies Loyal Player

    If you're looking for realism on a CW show, you're gonna have a bad time. Especially if there's time travel involved.
    • Like x 2
  4. Anothername Well-Known Player

    In the end anything the writers come up will be possible. Right now I settle with the Reverse Flash fighting the Flash in the opposite direction of time. Kind of like the Doctor/River Song relationship. Just not as couple ;)
  5. Telos Usr Dedicated Player

    Theres a few answers to all your questions but ill try answer the most important one, being "how can reverse flash still exist".

    This is quite possibly the hardest one to explain but it actually does follow true-to-theory time travel laws. So first we start off with the "future flash" and Reverse (Rev from here on out) fighting and Future flash saving young Barry. That future Flash is NO LONGER the barry allen we follow. He got his powers through the normal method naturally, while Rev reveals during Season 1 that as he took over Star Labs he got the particle accelerator working (and blowing up) 10 years before it wouldve normally happened, most likely because he got tired of being stuck in the past. In other words, we're actually technically looking at Earth 2/3/4/5/6 etc. In fact, every time barry accidentally time travelled, he wasnt "changing" his timeline, but actually creating an entirely NEW one, whilst his continued on without him/with cisco dead etc etc.

    Now for Rev. Rev gets stuck in the past, sets off the accelerator, trains barry, fights barry and then dies because his great great grandfather killed himself. So why arent they all dead right? Because it hasnt happened yet. Its like an endless time loop that Rev is now stuck in. He'll always get stuck in the past, always sets off the accelerator, always trains barry, always fights barry and then always dies when eddie shoots himself. It doesnt wipe him completely from history, it traps him in whats known as a relativistic conundrum.

    Its all based on Multiverse theory mixed with a bit of Quantum Causality.
    • Like x 1
  6. Yui Loyal Player

    The answer to your question would be what Earth-2 Harrison Wells said in "The Reverse Flash Returns" episode:


    The Reverse Flash that was fighting the Flash, Green Arrow, Hawkgirl, and Atom was the same Reverse Flash that returned in "The Reverse Flash Returns". That version of Reverse Flash was travelling back in time to the point when "The Reverse Flash Returns" happens. He was in the speed force travelling back in time when Eddie killed himself.

    Like what Earth-2 Wells said, the speed force protected Reverse Flash from being erased from existence "like a bomb shelter". At the end of "The Reverse Flash Returns", Barry helped this version of Reverse Flash return to the future.

    Now, sometime in the future, this version of Reverse Flash will go back in time to 2024, and he will fight the Flash, Green Arrow, Hawkgirl, and Atom.

    This also means that sometime in the future, this version of Reverse Flash would go back in time to try and kill Barry's younger self once he learns the Flash's real name. However, sometime in the future, the Flash, most likely, the current Barry, will also go back in time to stop him. Hopefully, we get an episode of this event in the future. I'm sure we all want to know what happened to Barry when he went missing like what the newspaper said.


    As for why Future Barry stopped Season 1 Barry from saving their mother, Nora, at the current point of the series, we know that Barry knows time travelling back to the past and changing what happens is very dangerous. Like what Wells/Thawne said in Season 1 when Barry time traveled for the first time, "how many more people could die" if Barry's mother lives?

    There's actually a DC animated movie where Barry saves his mother from getting killed. This lead to the world being completely changed for the worse. The movie is called "Justice League: The Flashpoint Paradox". If you haven't seen it, I suggest you watch it.




    If Future Barry didn't stop Season 1 Barry from saving Nora, something similar to what happened in Justice League: Flashpoint Paradox could take place.

    Hopefully, you understand all of what I said. I tried making this explanation in the least confusing way I can think of.
  7. Multiverse Wanderer Well-Known Player

    Okay okay yeah I remember this now that I watched it again. I was thinking the ending part of the battle where Flash vanishes, would be the moment they both go back in time (fueling the time jump off each other's speed) and reverse flash so consumed with rage in the heat of the moment goes to kill Nora when Flash stops him. But then again this is all just potential CW writers will do whatever the **** they want. I just can't wait 'till 4/19 to watch the two prime color streaks bounce off each other.
  8. melvinpox Devoted Player

    Time travel. Man, I could tell you some stories. Oh yes. I could tell you some stories.
    • Like x 2
  9. Ashrode Well-Known Player

    This is actually the second time in as many days I've seen someone try to say that. It's simply not true. It's how Marvel's multiverse works so that may be where your confusion is coming from, but DC are on a different system entirely.

    The multiverse exists as the result of every possibility existing (which inevitably means there's one where somebody screws up and releases a wave of destruction that wipes out every other universe, see Crisis on Infinite Earths). Alternate timelines exist on an even grander scale and encompass the multiverse. You alter the course of history on Earth-One, it changes the history of Earth-Two, Earth-Three, Earth-Supergirl, etc. There's a slight variation on this present in the comics building up to Flashpoint, but that's because the multiverse depended on the events that happened on the main reality of Earth-0 so if Infinite Crisis never happened, none of the other 51 universes would come into existence.

    The other timelines are out there, beyond the 52 universes. Very few people are aware of how to access them, but they exist. By that point you've left the multiverse and gone to the "megaverse" (beyond that you are into the omniverse where the laws of physics are varying even more dramatically than the small vibrational differences).

    For the topic at hand, the Reverse Flash still exists because the timeline needs him to exist. He's a living paradox. The grandfather paradox is rather nasty but is exactly what is going on here. Eddie shot himself because of Eobard, but if Eobard was never born Eddie couldn't have shot himself. So he simultaneously exists and doesn't exist.
  10. Telos Usr Dedicated Player


    Theres a good 18 or 19 things I should probably correct about all this but ill just stick to the main ones:

    1) The DC multiverse does not exist based on every possibility, it used to, but people were way too confused by the likes of Dark Knight Returns universe being on Earth 600 so the New 52 was named as such not just because DC cut their publishing numbers down to 52 comics, but because now there are only 52 universes. Theres not just 52 possibilities in any moment.

    2) ive already read/seen Crisis on Infinite Earths. Invalid point though, does not exist now.

    3) Altering the history of Earth Prime to effect every other Earth depends on 2 major factors, how far you go back and how the other Earth's were different in the first place. The only undeniable way to effect them all is to go all the way back to Earth Primes birth and destroy it.

    4) The other timelines arent out there. Sorry. Telos (comic villain not me lol) saved some of their heroes and villains for the big battle royal but he clearly explained that most of these were taken right at the moment their universes/worlds were destroyed.

    5) Your last sentence was terribly redundant as thats already been explained by me, others and even the show.

    Sorry man but you picked the wrong guy to try to educate on DC Lore and Multiverse theory. The obvious mistake you made though was applying your knowledge of ACTUAL multiverse theory to the comicbook version and reliving the Pre52 days instead of how things currently work. It was a nice attempt though, ill give ya that :)
  11. Bhanqwa Well-Known Player

    Is anyone in this thread being condescending? No? Okay... good. I do love when people with opposing views can avoid that tone.
  12. Pharaoh Dedicated Player

    Pogosticks are outlawed in this timeline.
    • Like x 2
  13. Ashrode Well-Known Player

    You are forgetting that there were 52 universes before the New 52. The universes were duplicated from the prime reality then had their histories distorted. If you do something that disrupts the creation of those other universes (Infinite Crisis) then you can change the history of everything, that's why Flashpoint reformed the old 52 arrangement into the New 52.

    As for the other timelines, they are still out there. That's from the publishing staff rather than the comics themselves. They want the option to have these other realities still out there in case they need to deal with them at some point (more likely giving them an excuse to keep the live action multiverse out of the comics but still "canon").
  14. Doctor Nova Devoted Player

    Which Flash tv show thread do i post in??

    meh. Who is Savitar???

    Flashpoint happened. Did that create a new version of Ronny??
    Is he Barry from the future after not saving Iris timeline??
  15. Doctor Nova Devoted Player

    Ronny died before flashpoint...
    Savitar is....

    /wary