Stats Revamp 1.5: Celestial

Discussion in 'Stats Revamp Archive' started by spord, Mar 31, 2017.

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  1. Mepps Sr. Community Manager

    As an FYI to everyone, we have identified a bug with NPC damage in the latest version of the revamp. As you know, weapons were adjusted/buffed with this pass. Those adjustments also inadvertently also impacted NPCs to the same significant extent.

    We'll work on getting that fixed for the next public test hotfix, but please keep this in mind while testing the powersets until this is resolved - particularly as you gauge tanking and healing. Thanks!
    • Like x 2
  2. Mepps Sr. Community Manager

    All posts above this one have been reviewed by the development team. Thank you for testing!

    General:
    • Many of you noted heals and especially heals over time felt weak. As noted in the post above this one, this build had an issue making NPC damage significantly too strong. We're not completely discounting the feedback, but we're going to fix the NPC damage issue and let you retest and restate these concerns.
    • Many of you said Smite and Haunt seemed too strong damage-wise, and noted that multi-input combos should be stronger to pay off for their longer time and risk. There was an error in the smite/haunt numbers, which we'll fix. We agree mutli-input combos should be best.
    Questions:
    • "Admonish is hitting almost 4 times harder in DPS role then in healer role. It appears any other power that heals in support role but doesn't in DPS received the same treatment as well. Intended?”
      • Yes, this is intended.
    • “It seems like Malediction and Benedication both provide a heal based on damage. Is the heal they provide intended to be equal or does one provide a stronger heal over the other?”
      • Their heal amounts are not intended to be equal, due to different power costs and cast times.
    • “Is there supposed to be a Power Cost difference between Retribution and Wither?”
      • No, this is a bug. We will fix.
    • "Was it intentional to change the animation on whither? It went from a bright explosion kind of animation to just a small sparkle on the ground."
      • We are checking into this, but believe so. It used to knockdown and play FX on the knocked down enemies, where now it no longer knocks down.
    • "Would it be possible to make the combo consume power instead of the transition? This way we wouldn't be wasting power if we got interrupted."
      • We considered this. The power cost was put on the transition in order to not waste time in the case that you do not have enough power to cast the combo (if you run out mid-combo). In that case, you will know immediately that you won't be comboing and can do something else. It also allows your power to regen while performing/during the transition animation and the follow-up combo (if you don't clip it).
      • However, if potential lost power is more of a concern than potential lost time we can change it to be on the last combo. We would like to hear everyone's thoughts on this.
    Bugs:
    • "Two celestial healers cannot use McB and get healing from both McB's. You get it from the healer with the highest resto. Same with Benediction.”
      • It is intended for both to stack. We will investigate.
    • “Corrupted divine light isn't applying the DoT if the glyph is placed directly under the target, it only gets the burst. When the glyph is in range for the target to be effected by it, then it'll receive the dot, but no burst.”
      • This is a bug, and we will fix.
    • "Blessing into Deathmark does not heal you or others if your Deathmark actually kills the target."
      • Confirmed, and we'll fix.
    • Like x 7
  3. Sage-Rapha Steadfast Player

    Please please please remove transition power costs but please don't add too much cost in the last input.
    It's annoying and frustrating to know that 30816 power is required to lay out 3 hots. That's a bit excessive and that's no exaggeration.
    Admonish is 7704 and those inputs are 2568 each. That's 12840 plus another 7704 on Consume Soul and 10272 for the entirety of WotPcCS.
    The healing seriously isn't justified with those costs either but I will retest! ^.^

    Shields:
    Could DMcB be made a more stable shield in healer role?
    DMcB is on a timer of about 4 seconds and explodes despite having a high modifier for the shield. In the interest of keep healing broad and flexible, could this time be negated in healer role?
    I'd even take a long cooldown in exchange for that.
    It'd be nice to have that shield rotation between Blessing and DMcB be well coordinated and to give a nice feel for a more mitigated approach to healing.

    When it comes to McB and BcM, is a higher healing cap negotiable? It could proc healing less often but be bigger chunks of damage healing.

    Questions on DPS:
    Could RcW and WcR be made to leverage the Purification PI?

    Can you guys consider making Cleansed Consume Soul a three tick dot? It's effective dps would be better that way.

    If you guys reduce the damage on ScH and HcS could that damage be moved to the dot of CScWotP, DL, and PcDL?
    • Like x 3
  4. Fatal Star 10000 Post Club

    I think to would be more beneficial to do it this way. I understand the reasoning you mentioned for why it's set up the way that it is, but in the heat of battle, very few people will actually check if they have enough power to finish off a combo and will just simply try to finish it instead. I'd rather have the portions of my combo that do damage consume power rather then the in-between. At least then I'm guaranteed it will go through, especially with a long combo like PcDL.

    My opinion on it anyway.
    • Like x 8
  5. Karasawa Loyal Player

    Thanks for the rationale on why transitions cost power instead of the actual combo. However, I think that losing power during the transition, getting CCed, and then losing the damage as a result is a much worse outcome than merely wasting time on a transition when you didn't have enough power to complete the combo in the first place. That's kind of your own fault anyways.

    If I'm playing a Celestial DPS, my goal is to deal damage and I need power to do that. So to me there would be nothing worse than using power while NOT dealing damage, which is what happens currently when you get CCed during a transition.
    • Like x 9
  6. Abra Cadabra Active Player

    I think on the final combo is the best choice. For exactly the reasons Fatal Star and Karasawa just gave.
    • Like x 6
  7. Derio 15000 Post Club

    The transition cost should apply after the combo has been cast.

    At minimum CR in iceberg lounge you can still get CC from adds and lose power. And since CC abilities like Smite and Haunt were removed at this point for solo and duo content the transition power cost can often be worse than a double edged sword.
    • Like x 3
  8. Castrato Well-Known Player

    To all the testers, currently, what's the best play style, so far, for the dps side? PftT, wep & power, or straight wep and little power usage? Can you also tell me your reasoning/thought process on why the play style you say is best, best?

    Thank you for the response(s).
  9. Mepps Sr. Community Manager

    All posts above this one have been reviewed by the development team.
  10. Mepps Sr. Community Manager

    These changes are moving to test today:

    Celestial
    • Corrupted Divine Light:
      • Properly deals damage over time.
    • Death Mark/Cleansed Death Mark:
      • Properly heals/damages if the target is KO'ed from using this ability.
    • Retribution:
      • Properly costs 100 power.
    • Corrupted Smite:
      • No longer gets a single target bonus and now cost 50 power and deals less damage to account for that.
    • Cleansed Haunt:
      • No longer deals damage as if the animation was 1.3 seconds instead of 1.0 seconds and now cost 50 power and deals less damage to account for that.
    • Celestial Combos:
      • The power cost is now tied to the final combo ability instead of the transition for multi-input combos.
    • Renew/Corrupted Renew:
      • Increased the healing output by 9%.
    We have also corrected the NPC damage, so please try out healing/tanking again to let us know how it feels.
    • Like x 4
  11. Mepps Sr. Community Manager

    Additionally:
    • Some of you mentioned you would like to see improvements to the strength of blessing/corrupted blessing. Further changes to shields and balance in this regard will be considered after all powersets are on test.
    • Some of you mentioned Malediction and Benediction would be better procing less often, but for bigger chunks of health. This is something we can consider, but it would come with an appropriately higher power cost. Let us know what you think.
    • There was some confusion about Retribution and Wither leveraging the purification PI. Wither already does, and Retribution sets it up, so it wouldn't do both. No plans for change here.
    • There was one comment requesting a tree-specific PI. This is thematically diverging from the concept of the powerset, could lead to much confusion with FX messaging, and not something we have planned.
    • Several players suggested Cleansed Consume Soul be made into a DoT, in a variety of ways. Celestial already has over ten DoT related abilities, so we do not intend on adding more.
    • Like x 1
  12. Mepps Sr. Community Manager


    We have and again today discussed this (across the board, not specifically for Celestial or any specific powerset). We disagree. CC is a valuable part of an ability and should be considered in it's total balancing, and the reduction in damage an ability gets for having CC is already generally minor.

    If you have two abilities with the same everything - same damage, cast time, cooldowns, etc. - but one with and one without CC, they should not deal the same damage. If they did, you'd choose the CC version every time, and that gets back to our purpose here. We want you to have and to make choices when building your loadout, and CC vs. damage is an interesting choice. It's also one that might vary from situation to situation, from content to content, or from group to group, and we like that, too.

    That said, if you're finding you don't have enough abilities without CC or enough abilities with CC (either way, in any of the powersets), so that you can make those choices, that would be good to know.
    • Like x 1
  13. Fatal Star 10000 Post Club

    No damage modifications were made to combos to account for cast time, correct? Or was that adjusted too in the update?

    Also I wouldn't mind increasing power cost to McB/BcM if it means larger chunks. We hit the healing cap way to easily, and it would be more beneficial to proc heals every 2 seconds like on live with a bigger cap
    • Like x 4
  14. stärnbock Devoted Player

    any chance you could take out the cooldows from this calculation? dont forget about the power costs, they alone make cooldowns unnecessary...
  15. Mepps Sr. Community Manager

    No chance.
  16. Karasawa Loyal Player

    Thanks Mepps. I'm liking this new format where you summarize our feedback every few days and respond point by point.
    • Like x 3
  17. Ala Rebeldex Loyal Player

    So you guys nerfed cH, cS and didn´t increase the damage of the larger combos???
    • Like x 1
  18. spord Developer

    Yes. Celestial's damage output versus the other power sets was too high.
  19. Ala Rebeldex Loyal Player

    Gonna check out the recent changes, but my first impression is that longer combos, especially DLcP, PcDL doesn´t feel rewarding and are too risky, if you get interrupted you will lose a lot of DPS
    • Like x 1
  20. HoiiowDreamz Dedicated Player

    It's roughly on par now but smite/haunt is still the best rotation since nothing else got buffed. On 3 targets I was getting 40-42k when I was getting 44-50k before. But everything else I tried was at like 25-35 tops. Everything I tried switching to and or adding onto smite/haunt was subtracting damage. Sidenote, any ETA on fixing server lag?
    • Like x 1
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