Way to improve PVP: Legends

This will be a "patch- notes" style list of suggestions made by the community for the Devs. The list of changes is meant to inform the Dev team what the proper direction for legends balance is, as well as balance as a concept. All of the changes are 100% up for discussion.

There didn’t have to be too many changes; a nerf to the few strongest and a buff to the few weakest would have been simpler, however me and a lot of others think that the gap between the strongest and weakest toons should be a small as possible while keeping in mind that 100% balance is impossible. You will notice that the new minimum HP was changed from 7863 to 8845 and that changes also include bug fixes, or reworks. Toons in the mid tier had very few adjustments and was the focal point of balance.

Additional threads
Shiny Mackerel's legends stats thread (Please use this thread as a reference; it is necessary)
Shaw's Balance Legends Initiative thread
Clutchmiester's Ways to improve PVP and population thread
CrazyArtBrown's Legends Tier list thread
Optional Global changes:

1. Enquirer suggested that the core of legends be remade by removing all crits and giving back melee weapon buffs to those that don't have it. SC charge increase would also be removed and all crit buffs would have to be replaced with a some sort of damage boost.

List of global legends bugs
→ Weapon crits in legends do not do increased damage (not sure if power crits are also affected)
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Batman

Team-Up: The 25% crit chance buff when paired with Robin no longer disappears on death and is activated when both toons are within 75 units of each other instead of a global buff.

Explosive Batarang
→ 3 ticks of 120-150 damage (405)→ 3 ticks of 142-178 damage (480)

Notes: One of the most balanced legend characters. However compared to a lot of the others in the cast, Batman’s damage is a little lower. Additional damage on his 2nd ability should boost him up a tad bit.


Arkham Asylum Joker

Bouncy Blast
→ Now instantaneously does damage as if all 10 balls hit
→ Damage and the object are now separated

Notes: The damage is too inconsistent; based on the trajectory the balls can do anywhere from 0-1200.


Harley Quinn

Hammer Spin
→ Jump cancel is re-added

Bomb Toss
○ Bomb Toss
Damage:
→ 210-285 (247.5) ability damage if smashed. → 315-427.5 (371.25)
→ 317-430 (373.5) weapon damage if thrown. → 475-645 (560.25)
○ Weaponize Smash
→ additional 30-39 (34.5) weapon damage if smashed. → 45-58.5 (51.75)

Notes: Bane, harley, and wonder woman’s throwing abilities got decreased instead of increased from GU 47’s scaling change. A 50% damage buff should bring it more inline towards its previous iteration. Harley’s weakness comes from getting gimped from GU 47’s weapon rebalance.


Nightwing
Removed Wing-Ding Flurry and added a new power

Amp Up → 250 power → 12 sec CD
→ Adds additional ability damage to each attack for 6 seconds
→ Deals 40-60 (50) damage.
→ Single target (stun).
→ Amp Up is only applied to selected target


Notes: Nightwing’s damage was very inconsistent with having to do dual flurry in order to do anything worthwhile. With Amp Up (similar to gadget’s Intimidate) Nightwing players should be more encouraged to play with shorter combos, but still leaving dual flurry worth the risk. Wing-Ding Flurry was chosen because it served no function.

Robin
→ Fixed the staff lunge bug and it can now travel it’s full distance.

Team-Up: The 25% crit chance buff when paired with Batman no longer disappears on death and is activated when both toons are within 75 units of each other instead of a global buff.

Flipline:
→ Damage now applies when visual effect connects
→ Power: 125 →175
→ Now grounds in addition to the stun

Notes: While Flipline had a Great damage/power ratio, its long animation length and lack of utility made it useless. An added grounding effect will increase the frequency in which the power is used. Power consumption was also increased to justify its current damage and new grounding buff.

Bane

Seismic Slam
○ Seismic Slam
Damage:
→ 210-285 (247.5) ability damage if smashed. → 315-427.5 (371.25)
→ 317-430 (373.5) weapon damage if thrown. → 475-645 (560.25)
○ Weaponize Smash
→ Additional 30-39 (34.5) weapon damage if smashed. → 45-58.5 (51.75)

Venom Up (First Use)
→ Heal: 1638-2455 (2046.5) health → 1500 (1500)
→ Maximum health: 10810 HP → 10500
○ Elbow drop (tap 5 hold)
→ Is now vulnerable to block

Venom Up (Second Use)
→ Heal: kept at (2046.5)
→ Maximum health: 12285 HP → 11700

Notes: Bane’s sustain while venom upped was slightly too high. A small, but noticeable nerf. Changing Bane’s damage was not considered because he (or Atrocitus) has no innate melee weapon buff like the other toons.

Catwoman
HP 9336→ 8845

Primal Martial Arts Avg damage % modified new avg
Shuriken/Enhanced Shuriken 720 - 20% 576
Cartwheel Kick (tap hold) 780 -26% 577
Axle Kick (three-tap hold) 1600 -18.5% 1304
Lunge 950 -30% 665

Notes: Catwoman has the highest burst damage in legends. The approach was to reduce the damage of primal martial arts because it blew all other weapons out of the water.

Two-Face

Bullet Barrage/storm
→ Jump canceling now stops the animation properly

Harvey Domination power tray

○ Bullet Barrage
→ 75% DMG mitigation → 20%

○ In Your Face
→ Now deals additional damage on helpless enemies

Two-Face Domination power tray
→ Now increases ability damage crit chance by 12% in addition to its standard 12% weapon crit increase

○ In Your Face
→ Now deals additional damage on helpless enemies

Notes: The 75% damage mitigation on Harvey Dom’s bullet barrage was way too high for a power that is not vulnerable to interrupt and does over 1.5k base damage. Both supercharges should both be equally viable now. There is a bug with in your face where the helpless damage modifier does not apply like it does in the normal power tray.

Superman

New innate ability
→ Kryptonian Biology: +5% Dmg Mitigation, +10% Crowd control resistance, +10% damage

Block Breaker
→ Made it a standard Stomp Smash block breaker to avoid any bugs and to allow Superman to jump cancel.

Modified Brawling Punt: Tap Melee x2, Hold Melee x2
→ Damage increased to bring it in line with the other weapons. % increase of punt needs to be discussed


Super Breath
Power: 200 → 150
Cooldown: 4 → 2

Vacuum Spin
Power: 200 → 150
Cooldown: 4 → 6
Damage: 4 ticks of 82-112 (97) damage, (388) total → 4 ticks of 130-160 (145) (580) total

Shockwave Punch
Power: 200 → 150
Cooldown: 6 → 4
Super Breath makes this power useless outside of CC. Especially since it has a faster animation than Shockwave Punch. A replacement might be in order.

Heat Vision
Damage Mitigation: 25% → 40%
Main Damage:
→ 4 ticks of 60-100 damage (1 sec/tick) for a total of (320) damage.
→ 4 ticks of 73-122 damage (.75 sec/tick) for a total of 240-400 (390) damage.

Burn damage:
→ 5 ticks of 10-30 damage (1 sec/tick) for a total of 50-150 (100) damage.
→ 5 ticks of 20-30 damage (1 sec/tick) for a total of 50-150 (125) damage.


Notes: The kryptonians are generally weak. Both Vacuum spin and heat vision received an asinine damage increase even though HP for each toon was buffed by 50%. A revamp would be better than power altercations so every Kryptonian has at least some uniqueness to them.

General Zod

New innate ability
→Kryptonian Biology: +5% Dmg Mitigation, +10% Crowd control resistance, +10% damage

Subjugate
1.5 sec CD → 3 sec CD
→ Dot damage 4 ticks of 15-45 (30) → 25-45 (35)
→ animation length is shorter and now matches Batman’s forward flip

Subjugate(optional/rework) → Power 275 → CD 8 seconds
→ Damage: Deals 607-742 (674.5) weapon damage or 1305-1440 (1372.5) On enemies below 35% HP
→ Vulnerable to block
→ Keeps original animation lengths

Kryptonian Grenade Toss
Power 175 → 150
8 sec CD → 2 sec CD
→ Now hits in a cone rather than a 360 degree area

Shockwave Punch
See notes

Block Breaker
→ Made it a standard Stomp Smash block breaker to avoid any bugs and to allow Zod to jump cancel.

Modified Brawling backfist/cartwheelkick (2 tap hold)
→ Damage increased by 50% to bring it in line with the other weapons.

Heat Vision
Damage Mitigation: 25% → 40%
○ Power damage: 4 ticks of 60-100 damage (1 sec/tick) for a total of (320) damage.
→ Power damage 4 ticks of 73-122 damage (.75 sec/tick) for a total of 240-400 (390) damage.

○ Burn damage: 5 ticks of 10-30 damage (1 sec/tick) for a total of 50-150 (100) damage.

→ 5 ticks of 20-30 damage (1 sec/tick) for a total of 50-150 (125) damage.

Notes: Put emphasis on grenade toss to be Zod’s primary clipping power.
Something will have to be done about Shockwave Punch, or perhaps replace it. It’s useless since Grenade Toss is an area attack instead of conus, which to be honest, it should be conus. That way shockwave punch has value as an AoE. A replacement might be in order. A revamp would be better than power altercations so every Kryptonian has at least some uniqueness to them.


Lex Luthor
HP 9828 → 8845

Quantum Barrage
→ Power 200 → 150
Damage: 6 ticks of 49-79 (64) damage for a total of 294-474 (384) damage.
→ Now deals 6 ticks of 66-107 (86.5) damage for a total of 294-474 (519) damage.
→ Lex luthor can now walk the during animation

Laser Beam
→ cooldown: 0.5 sec → 3 sec

Notes: Lex luthor’s average Damage per second was too high. Being hand blaster automatically will put any legends toon into the Upper-mid tier or above. His average dps was lowered and reorganized. His HP was lowered the new lowest bracket


Arkillo
Construct Jackhammer
Power: 150 → 125

Ring Beam
Power:150 power → 275
Cooldown: 1 sec CD → 6 seconds
Finisher damage: 3 ticks of 330-450 damage (1170) → 2 ticks of 586-786 (1372)

Spike Clap
Power 150 → 125

Spike Clap(alternative)
Added Dot effect: Deals 330-450 (390) damage followed by 3 ticks of 15-45 damage (1.5 sec/tick) for 375-585 (480) total damage.

Notes: The problem with Arkillo and Kilowog is not low damage or hp; thier weakness is that they have absolutely no utility, burst, or good cancellation options. Both of them would benefit more from a reboot than the changes suggested. Their power armor from the pve duo is avaliable in the game files and it would be nice to have that implemented as a supercharge or toggle ability.

Bizzaro
Overhead smash
DMG mitigation: 75% →40%

Jump smash
DMG mitigation: 75% →40%

Annihilate
DMG mitigation: 75% →40%

Modified Brawling Punt: Tap Melee x2, Hold Melee x2
Damage increased to be brought it in line with the other weapons.

Modified Brawling Punt: Tap Melee x2, Hold Melee x2
→ Damage increased to bring it in line with the other weapons. % increase of punt needs to be discussed

Kilowog
HP 9336 → 9828

Construct Jackhammer
Power: 150 → 125

Ground Spike
Power: 150 → 125
(Optional; Power must be 150 power if done); Deals 330-450 (390) damage followed by 3 ticks of 15-45 damage (1.5 sec/tick) for 375-585 (480) total damage.

Battle Roar
3 ticks (1 sec/tick) → (.75 sec/tick)

The problem with Arkillo and Kilowog is not low damage or hp; thier weakness is that they have absolutely no utility, burst, or good cancellation options. Both of them would benefit more from a reboot than the changes suggested. Their power armor from the pve duo is available in the game files and it would be nice to have that implemented as a supercharge or toggle ability.

Steel
HP 7863 → 9828

Atom Splitter
→ You can now attack to prematurely end the jump cancel animation

Hammerang
Cooldown: 18 → 10

Steelworks Proximity Mine
Cooldown: 12 → 11

Steel Has nice options and a shield. He just needed a survivability boost and a couple tweaks.

Amon Sur
Construct Whirlwind (optional)
Now grants 40% Damage Mitigation during duration
The only reason to ever use this power is to clip it with a trinket for one average tic of damage AND a DoT. At least this way when you use it and can’t clip, you won’t have to worry about getting nuked.

Construct Whirlwind (optional vr 2)
Can be jump canceled; also canceling damage

Shatter (2 options)

1. Power: 200 → 275; Increased damage to roughly 1500. Make it a finisherthat fits within the counter immunity window
2. Power: 200 → 150;Make it an instant damage AoE attack. This one is probably less viable because Construct Whirlwind is still better despite it being 200 power, it applies an initial tic, which is really all that matters, and when clipped with trinket, applies dots while you’re free to attack again. Not to mention it doesn’t split.

Hal Jordan
Block Breaker
Made it a standard Stomp Smash block breaker to avoid any bugs and to allow Hal Jordan to jump cancel.

Fusion Blast
Power: 200 →150

Notes: Hal Jordan’s Strafing Jet has far more utility than his Fusion Blast, and it uses the same amount of power, making Fusion Blast useless; Not to mention that if you want to go for a single target option, you’d use Light Cage. If you want conus, go for Swoop or Force of Will. But Hal’s AoE options are FB and SJ, and SJ has too long of an animation time to be used properly in burst damage, being dependent on the opponent being caught in Light Cage so they can’t block or dodge SJ. By reducing it’s cost, you now have a viable option for instant aoe damage.

Ursa
New innate ability
→Kryptonian Biology: +5% Dmg Mitigation, +10% Crowd control resistance, +10% damage

Block Breaker
→ Made it a standard Stomp Smash block breaker to avoid any bugs and to allow Ursa to jump cancel.

Modified Brawling
→ Damage increased to bring it in line with the other weapons. % increase needs to be discussed

Headbutt and Jumpkick
See notes

Heat Vision
Damage Mitigation: 25% → 40%
○ Power damage: 4 ticks of 60-100 damage (1 sec/tick) for a total of (320) damage.
→ Power damage 4 ticks of 73-122 damage (.75 sec/tick) for a total of 240-400 (390) damage.

○ Burn damage: 5 ticks of 10-30 damage (1 sec/tick) for a total of 50-150 (100) damage.

→ 5 ticks of 20-30 damage (1 sec/tick) for a total of 50-150 (125) damage.

Notes: Heat Blast uses the same power as Headbutt and Jumpkick and does more overall damage. The only reason to use these powers are if Swoop attack and Heat Blast are on cooldown, or if you need to power spam safe damage for the kill. They’re useless, unless a combo extension could be added for uniqueness. Replacements might be in order. A revamp would be better than power altercations so every Kryptonian has at least some uniqueness to them.

Power Girl

New innate ability
→Kryptonian Biology: +5% Dmg Mitigation, +10% Crowd control resistance, +10% damage

Block Breaker
→ Made it a standard Stomp Smash block breaker to avoid any bugs and to allow Power Girl to jump cancel.

Modified Brawling Punt:Tap Melee x2, Hold Melee x2
→ Damage increased to bring it in line with the other weapons. % increase needs to be discussed

Shockwave Stomp
Power: 200 →150


Whirlwind (optional)
Now grants 40% Damage Mitigation

Heat Vision
Damage Mitigation: 25% → 40%
○ Power damage: 4 ticks of 60-100 damage (1 sec/tick) for a total of (320) damage.
→ Power damage 4 ticks of 73-122 damage (.75 sec/tick) for a total of 240-400 (390) damage.

○ Burn damage: 5 ticks of 10-30 damage (1 sec/tick) for a total of 50-150 (100) damage.

→ 5 ticks of 20-30 damage (1 sec/tick) for a total of 50-150 (125) damage

Notes: Whirlwind makes Shockwave Stomp pretty much useless since it does more damage and applies CC, and is usable while CC’d. This power reduction will give it some use so you’ll have more incentive to spam Whirlwind less; a replacement might be in order. Whirlwinds optional change uses the same reasoning as Amon Sur’s Construct Whirlwind. Surprisingly, PG’s whirlwind does less overall damage than Amon Sur’s by 30. A revamp would be better than power altercations so every Kryptonian has at least some uniqueness to them.

Sinestro
HP 8353 → 8845

John Stewart
HP 7863 → 8845

Donna Troy
HP: 8353→8845

Wonder Woman
Monolith:
○ Monolith
→ 210-285 (247.5) ability damage if smashed. → 315-427.5 (371.25)
→ 317-430 (373.5) weapon damage if thrown. → 475-645 (560.25)
○ Weaponize Smash
→ additional 30-39 (34.5) weapon damage if smashed. → 45-58.5 (51.75)

Circe (more changes might be in order)
HP 7863 → 8845

Mirror Image
Cooldown: 16 → 18

Notes: Circe’s cooldown on mirror image was changed to match with shazam’s change.

Felix Faust
HP 9828 → 8845

Skull Scatter
Cooldown 9 → 4

Notes: A lower cooldown on skull scatter will encourage faust players to play less passively. His health was also lowered to match his damage potential.

Doctor Fate
HP 9336 → 8845

Fateful Blast
Cooldown: 8 → 4

Cleansing Blast
Cooldown: 11 → 9

Notes: A lower cooldown will make Dctor Fate more active

Cheetah

Primal Martial Arts Avg damage % modified new avg
Shuriken/Enhanced Shuriken 720 - 20% 576
Cartwheel Kick (tap hold) 780 -26% 577
Axle Kick (three-tap hold) 1600 -18.5% 1304
Lunge 950 -30% 665

Notes: In comparison to catwoman, berserk and the finisher justify her far weaker powers and animation lengths.

Atrocitus
HP: 8353 → 8845

Rage of the Butcher
Health: 12285 → 11700

Notes: Reorganized his survivability to be less reliant on his supercharge.


Supergirl

New innate ability
→Kryptonian Biology: +5% Dmg Mitigation, +10% Crowd control resistance, +10% damage

Block Breaker
Made it a standard Stomp Smash block breaker to avoid any bugs and to allow Supergirl to jump cancel.

Modified Brawling Punt:Tap Melee x2, Hold Melee x2
→ Damage increased to bring it in line with the other weapons. % increase needs to be discussed

Kryptonian Clobber
Power: 300 - 275

Spinning Cyclone
Power: 200 - 150
→ 4 ticks of 82-112 (97) damage, (388) total → 4 ticks of 130-160 (145) (580) total
Ocular Burst makes this power useless outside of CC, hence the power reduction.

Whirling Vortex
Power: 250 - 200 or 150

Heat Vision
Damage Mitigation: 25% → 40%
○ Power damage: 4 ticks of 60-100 damage (1 sec/tick) for a total of (320) damage.
→ Power damage 4 ticks of 73-122 damage (.75 sec/tick) for a total of 240-400 (390) damage.

○ Burn damage: 5 ticks of 10-30 damage (1 sec/tick) for a total of 50-150 (100) damage.

→ 5 ticks of 20-30 damage (1 sec/tick) for a total of 50-150 (125) damage

Notes: Using SG’s full Burst: BB > Vortex x2 > Finisher > Swoop uses 675/1000 power without the power reductions. Uses 600 power with (if Vortex is 200, not 150). Catwoman’s current burst uses 625 power in comparison.

Saint Walker
HP 7863 → 8845

Hope
cooldown: 300 → 98
→ can no longer be interrupted by CC

Temperance
→ Now also gives 10 tics of 30-35 power (1 sec per tick) to nearby allies for a total of 300-350 (325) power restored. (Function similar to Batdrone)

Notes: Saint Walker is more of a Support Character in 2v2’s, so his loadout should have that kind of utility. And now he stands and even better chance at surviving in both 1v1 and 2v2


Guy Gardner
Option 1: Buff Two-Handed to make it a more viable weapon in PvP
Option 2: Replace Two Handed with Brawling

Pulverize
power 150 → 125

Notes: Gardner’s kit is actually pretty ok, the two options above are pretty self-explanatory; Two-Handed does not do his kit justice.

Shazam
Mercury's Escape
Cooldown: 6 sec → 18

Shazam!
→Heals 1638-2455 (2046.5) health. Removed
→ Shazam! is now telegraphed and gives players the chance to dodge.

Shazam! (Billy Baston form)
→ Heals 600-900 (750) health. → 1638-2455 (2046.5)
→ Grants immunity to control effects and absorbs 10,000 damage (4 sec).Removed damage absorption portion only

Notes: There was no reason to ignore counter mechanics every 6 seconds. He also had no reason to have two heals and two 10k shields in one supercharge; he now has just one of each.

Deathstroke
Onslaught
Power 300 → 175

Shock Staff
Power: 300 → 150

Backflip Burst
Cooldown: 4 sec → 3 sec

Notes: Easy change, how Deathstroke got through testing is beyond anyone's imagination. Seriously? Almost ⅓ of the power bar?

Green Arrow
Electromagnetic Flurry Shot
Power: 250 → 150


Cryogenic Arrow
Power: 250 → 150


Phosphorus Arrow
Power: 250 → 150

Notes: Arrow’s Grapple Line Pull and Spinning Crane Kick were considered to be in line and is still his primary burst damage off a counter. The rest of his kit for some reason received the deathstroke treatment, so it was fixed.

Reserved post. You can now discuss.

Looks very good if you ask me. I see a lot of the HP being boosted/downgraded to 8845. Is there a specific reason for that number?

There is a base health amount and they reduce or up the health based on specific %.

We thought anything below that number was too low regardless of the legend. 8845 was a common health for a lot of legends in the game, and even that was below the average.

I sadly didn't play as much of a role in this as I would have liked to, so to quickly add something in:

The only crits in legends are from precision damage and only if that character is using a melee weapon. The only exception to this is batman's drone buff, which gives ability damage a 50% magnitude on crits.

One other side note, they should just remove the innate damage buff from Batman and Robin when paired together because if all legends are balanced out, that team would have an advantage.

Once I get the rights to edit my posts I will consider this, as well as fix some formatting errors that didn't copy/paste correctly.

I agree with Enquirer. Frankly I don't understand why Batman and Robin are the only ones with this kind of thing. Why not give something to Superman and Supergirl since they're ACTUALLY family? Or Zod and Ursa since they're married? If only one pair can have this, it shouldn't be allowed.

Yea, only way you're gonna get the rights to edit the posts unless this gets moved to the guide section.

Nice post, now all we need is a one wish genie to make this happen.

RIP Robin Williams

On topic: Hey, only reason I helped with this is because Ahri asked. Black Adam was on test for a record short time of 7 days before he was moved to Live. Being just as OP as Shazam. It's a crap shoot, but I'll be damned if it doesn't feel good to think about.

That's a three wish genie!
No, but really, I would have to say this is probably the best legend fix thread I have seen. They need to hire clutch and ahri.

I KNEW YOU'D SAY THAT! So what if it's 3 wishes?! What kind of genie gives just 1?! Lame!

They tried with Clutch (not actually hire but you know what I mean), but they ignored him afterwards. Multiple. Times.

O.O

YAAASSSSS AHRI AND SHAW!!!

If only they were good at their own game they wouldn't need anyone, they could base it off their own experiences.