I'm sure I am not alone in this, but the CR levels to unlock the later raids are totally unrealistic. CR 106 to unlock labyrinth, HoH and ToD. It is not possible at this level. I am CR 112 and even I struggle with certain parts of these raids (not even going to bother attempting ToD until I am at least 114). Not only is it disheartening to people at 106 going in and getting destroyed in seconds, but its also frustrating for more "prepared" groups when someone leaves and are forced into matchmaking, only to have a fresh faced 106 CR pop up. The collective groans when this happens are a common reaction. Its not the players fault either, its the matchmaking process thats to blame for allowing under geared players to queue up for them. Should the entry bar not be raised?
I think the 4 player alerts/operations should be the area where players who are new to a tier should be leveling up to prepare for the raids in that tier. Then the raids should be preparing players for the next tier content. You shouldn't be able to jump in at the deep end immediately.
No one is forcing people into the raids do them when your ready. They are not meant to be done at 106 cr simply unlock then. However if your group is strong enough to have a 106 cr join you what is the harm? If you open a raid up to match making then it is your fault for what you get. You should just close the instance and invite the role and CR you think is appropriate.
It is a suggested CR level. Just because they can que for it doesn't mean they should. People should know their limits before inflicting themselves on others.
That can only be true if the raids offer significant challenge though. AF2 raids at 106? too hard probably. L&W at 106? no problem, so no need to force people to gear up in alerts first.
First tried ToD when I was 112. That was more then fine for that mission. Heck the biggest problem was the people kicking you when you did not want to glitch. Heck the next time I get a toon that can do ToD... will try it as early as 100... maybe even less. Heck the first time I did the solo.... I was 110CR. Was tough the first couple of times but got much easier . Then with my next toon I did it at 105. And it all went smooth. CR is not an absolute. Experience matters. The first time you do a mission.... you may find it tough even if you have a higher CR. But once you gain experience.... you can do the same mission with a much lower CR.
The only thing that can really prepare you for the Raid is the Raid itself. Even if you replay Return to Nexus a 1000 times...... it will in no way prepare you for how ToD works and all the mechanics you will encounter. Also people do not really want to remod their gear. Some some will prefer to jump in the deep end and remod their gear only once if they get CR100 gear then to mod their CR98.... then CR99.... and then CR100 gear.
CR is not the only factor. If someone was a fresh 106, as you say, but had 200 SP? That would make a lot of difference, if they were a tank. They would have more dom than a straight CR 110 with only 70 SP. CR is not everything.
What he said ^^^^ Plus, remember to get consumables to aid you in the process like Personal Dampening Fields, Flex Colas, Karmic Hex, Plasma Capsules, etc. Etc. Get in a group with good communication and teamwork. Drink plenty of water, get to the restroom before start and separate a few hours from your agenda. It's painful but possible. My 2 cents.
Of course, experience matters, but experience doesn't alter the fact that enemies on lab and HoH hit monumentally hard. I was invited into HoH by league members when I hit 106 to show me how mental it was. I'm a tank (was fire at the time and admittedly had a far from ideal loadout), but the first add I encountered, one shotted me immediately. I asked to be excused immediately and never tried again til I was 110. It put me off. I still can't even find a group that can finish lockdown yet. Thats 106 isn't it? Or 100? (cant remember). As a rage tank, I'm always the last man standing, but with the constant random fireballs and black auras that prevent people being able to revive each other, everyone always wipes and I have to let myself die, because a tank can't kill Barda and adds alone.
This ^ we ran a recent ToH (Elite) with our solo troll CR 111 and I was DPS'ing on my alt who was also 111 CR. Both of us had 195+ SP. Now if they could just finish tweaking the last fight
Devs are assuming that you have experience so it shouldnt be a struggle. Look at L&W, people were beating that raid on day 1 without vendor or raid gear.
Yet T5 was all about the raids and most players did not play the alerts. Raids had the best gear, period. With T6 Alerts gear is one item level below the raid gear, not five like in T5 instance. So now we have new to T6 players with bare minimum CR trying to complete Necro, Artifacts, and LD. I got qued into LD and I am a 113 troll and a 112 DPS. The closest player to my CR was....103. I simply left as I was not going to be in the instance for 2-3 hours. The funny thing though about raids. I have seen a full 113 group be in L&W for over an hour at the first boss. I asked in group if anyone ever beat said raid, the response was NO for everyone. I think L&W is harder than LAB and HoH if you do not know the mechanics. If you know the mechanics it is a very simple and quick raid like Necro but understanding the mechanics is the most important thing. As for a 106 CR, LAB is very doable. HoH, hell no. If a 106 does go into the instance there is a chance for a kick. They should know that well in advance.
yeahs but you know the mechanics. I bet most 106 players going into instances do not. Big difference there. Yet T5 was all about the raids and most players did not play the alerts. Raids had the best gear, period. With T6 Alerts gear is one item level below the raid gear, not five like in T5 instance. So now we have new to T6 players with bare minimum CR trying to complete Necro, Artifacts, and LD. I got qued into LD and I am a 113 troll and a 112 DPS. The closest player to my CR was....103. I simply left as I was not going to be in the instance for 2-3 hours. The funny thing though about raids. I have seen a full 113 group be in L&W for over an hour at the first boss. I asked in group if anyone ever beat said raid, the response was NO for everyone. I think L&W is harder than LAB and HoH if you do not know the mechanics. If you know the mechanics it is a very simple and quick raid like Necro but understanding the mechanics is the most important thing. As for a 106 CR, LAB is very doable. HoH, hell no. If a 106 does go into the instance there is a chance for a kick. They should know that well in advance.
The raids are possible with a group of all 106 CR's. I'd even argue they are possible at lower CR's. The requirements are just fine as they are. Just because you cannot take a group of random strangers into an instance with a high probability you will defeat the opposition does not mean leagues with effective communication and teamwork cannot do what you failed to do. People do rely far more on visual number and statistics than they should in this game - and often ignore everything else sadly. Some are necessary, but certainly the player ability in a typical group member should be FAR more of a concern. I couldn't give two ****s about your 5300 Vit if you cant keep PoT up, spend more time dead than alive, cant pick up anyone else, or more worried about your damage than keeping the group powered. Just saying...
LD is actually one of the easier raids, you just have to know the mechanics. First off, there are no "random" fireballs or "random" black auras. The fire and ice artifacts only activate at 5 specific spots, learn them, never stand there. There are safe spots, essentially the darker parts of the floors, the 4 honeycombs beside the side doors, and the strip of black that the main artifact is located at. The black auras are from the first boss, but there is a very obvious tell before he places it. First, he will usually jump to a random party member(this does not happen every single time, but at about a 90% rate). Second, he will make a throwing action towards a specific person, then he will teleport to the person, knock them down/damage them, and place the black pool on the ground. The only artifact that really can pose a problem to under-geared players is the beams/lasers. These will activate at the same spots as the fire/ice artifacts but will send out a beam that rotates hitting all in its path. If you see the beam headed towards you, stop your rotation and block or jump over the beam. There are a few other mechanics to this raid, but all are for the most part easily avoidable. One is that there is a specific add that take priority over all others. This add on villain side is called a "Borer" and what makes him dangerous is that when someone goes down, he will attack anyone attempting to pick them up. The way to avoid this if someone goes down while he is still up is to call it out, and someone will continuously lunge him as another member picks the player up, or a troll could possibly stun him. When Big Barda is up and not trapped, she will place a random red aura on someone. This aura works like many other known mechanics in the game (Nexus, Artifacts, Lab, HoH) in which it is relatively harmless to the player with the aura, but will kill anyone near them. So, while staying in a safe area, everyone must be spread out enough to not cause an instant death when this aura spawns on them. Finally, when Big Barda and Mr Miracle are up, there is a rifle that spawns. Two players, usually 2 DPS, must alternate on the rifle trapping Barda or Miracle each time. One player can not pick the rifle up two times in a row, so you must alternate. This can be dangerous with Barda up so it helps to have mics. Usually after one player uses the rifle, they will swap places so that the other player is now standing on the rifle in order to grab it as soon as it spawns. Other than that the mechanics are pretty minor, watch out for bots that send out constant sparks as you will not be able to pick up beside them. Tank will hold aggro while standing near/on top of the artifact that the Engineers attempt to build pillars on. Do not let Engineers build pillars, which is pretty obvious. When the first boss is up, someone needs to be READY but not standing directly beside the machine in the back in case a trapper traps someone(especially tank), they can run over and release them asap. If you are on PS servers, and I assume villains because you mention Barda, give me a /tell and we can run this with you. Shad0w Reap3r, or Kyra Naomi, you could also send mail if I'm not on at the time. This is one of my favorite raids to run for the fun of it, and I still need a couple feats so feel free to ask and we'll run it with you.
You say with T5 it was all about the raids, I disagree. Yes, raids dropped the best gear, and they still do, but pre-AM/WM and OP players filling your spots you didn't run raids at minimum CR. You have to realize that the general CR people STARTED running T5 raids at was CR98-99 pre-nerf. The raids unlocked at 86 CR and it was almost impossible, unless you were really skilled, to complete even Nexus until you gained an additional 10-13 CR. Using T5 as a comparison is definitely not a good idea. Yes, now we can easily go in as soon as we hit 86 and complete them. Most of this is due to WM and AM being available now, and the fact that they were nerfed beyond recognition. When they were new, most CR 86 players except the upper 1-2% could not complete them, if not for the sheer mechanics, it was due to the fact of enrage timers. Every boss in Wave, and the two side bosses in Nexus both have 5 minute enrage timers in which the fight becomes extremely hard after you hit that. Nexus handled it by endless reinforcements, usually ending up with upwards of 20 adds in the room on top of the boss. Wave, the bosses would get sudden 1-shots that you had no way of avoiding, slowly dwindling your group down to nothing.
I'm sorry, but I disagree. I play T6 raids exclusively with league members who all communicate through headsets because we don't waste our time with pug groups in upper tier raids. A vast majority of us have high SP and are CR 112-114 and some have alts we've been helping with. These people are experienced and run the content no problem with their primary, but when running their alt at 106, they're a hinderence because they require picking up every two seconds or are simply unaffective. As for Lockdown, even a group of our best players with 2 healers, a troll, tank and 4 DPS can't finish it. We all strongly believe this one was buffed in the last update too. There's far too much going on. Two bosses and adds? NP. But fireball of death spawning every two seconds instakilling people and auras preventing us from reviving people, thats just too much. Just ends with me on my own.
Thanks for the post. Will have a proper read through after dinner before jumping on and relay it to league members.
beat this raid with less than 106 cr people in their current role with only a handful of 112 cr toons to help out on all but throne. so it is doable if people know what they are doing the Cr requirement is fine.. try joining a league so that you arent forced to rely on pugs instead of trying to change the game to suit yourself
