When I downloaded this game, my immediate goal was to become one of the best PvPers on the game. I do PvE and I am max PvE CR, but in this game, PvE will never be something I actually ENJOY doing. To me, PvP is where all of the real fun is at. I started playing this game in 2012. Although I wasn't very known or good at first, I stuck with the PvP side of this game because it was unique. What I loved about DCUO Online PvP is the combat, the movement, timing counters and incorporating your powers with your combat skill, perfecting unique spec to maximize your potential - all things that gave motive to me sticking with this game. As a low-level I thought it was awesome that I could shout for help when a villain would gank me on a quest and some strong hero would come swooping in to wipe him/her out for me. I made it my goal to get skilled and get geared so that I can be the one that gets called on to do the "wiping out". In my first week or so playing this game, Mepps and another staff member (cannot remember the name) had an open world PvP event, kill the GM style all-out war. It was laggy, but it was awesome. Now, the best we get is Mepps logging in to spawn adds in our HQs, I'm sorry - but I see zero fun in killing meta avatars or bane thugs in the watch tower. At least with the open world PvP events, players were introduced to Versus chat, open world PvP, PvP in general, able to get bounty feats, etc. That is much more of a reward than killing adds in our HQs. I have a couple of proposals for PvP, because sadly, I've tolerated as much as I can and I have thought about quitting the game permanently. The game is being constantly ruined every update for me as well as other players who feel the same way about the PvP side. PvP IS the red-headed stepchild of this game. With updates made for PvE, devs put little thought into how they could affect PvP. Ideas I've seen around the forums and ideas I've came up with: First of all, to revive PvP we NEED a developer dedicated to PvP to actually WORK with us in-game either test server or live server. We need a team of PvPers to work hard with that dev up front. Sure, videos help, but videos will not show the developers exactly what is going on. They need to experience it for themselves. CCs - I am aware CCs is a core issue and it is "actively" being worked on, but we need to get kept up to speed with this and we need to know exactly WHAT is changing before it's actually change. My main issue with CCs is being stunned while trying to counter. For example : Player A is Catwoman Player B is Joker. Payer A throws a random block breaker at Player B, Player B sees the BB and immediately tries to lunge it - BUT WAIT - Player A, Catwoman, uses her taser right after the random BB and stuns Player B, Joker, preventing him from lunging when the heavens know he deserved that counter. This issue allows players to throw random bbs and not be punished. It's sad that it's actually exploitable. AMs - I am fine with advanced mechanic such as power back and increased damage after a certain function, BUT it becomes a problem when powers can be spammed for insane safe damage and can't be countered. I can't count how many times I've went into Nature Wolf Form and did -> Vine Lash > Briar -> SC -> Carnage -> SC -> SC -> SC-> Roar -> Dead no counters and weapon damage needed. There needs to be a balance. Power Countering - This was the worse idea you guys have ever came up with. Powers should NOT be able to counter. If this mechanic remains, then their windows should be extended longer than what they are now. Hardlight counter windows switch too fast in-between combos making it difficult to actually counter. These windows should be extended since powers countering IS a privilege and added benefit. "Hybrid" gear - When PvP Season 3 gear was only in work in progress, I initially thought that developers were introducing three sets of gear instead of two. Role-specific gear, DPS gear, and Hybrid gear. I didn't think role-specific gear would ACTUALLY be removed from PvP. That was a horrible idea. Role-Specific gear should be returned next season or earlier if possible. DPS gear would of course excel in DPS based stats, role-specific would scale based on role, hybrid gear will have a both DPS stats and in-role stats, but they will be slightly lower than role-specific or DPS gear. For example (these are made up numbers for example purposes) : DPS set : 30,000 Health 14600 Toughness 2300 Precision 4000 Might 4500 Power 0 Restoration 0 Vitalization 0 Dominance Healer set : 33,000 Health 15000 Toughness 1000 Precision 2000 Might 5500 Power 7000 Restoration 0 Vitalization 0 Dominance Controller set : 32,000 Health 14500 Toughness 1500 Precision 3000 Might 5000 Power 0 Restoration 2600 Vitalization 250 Dominance Tank set : 36,000 Health 16500 Toughness 1100 Precision 2100 Might 4100 Power 0 Restoration 0 Vitalization 500 Dominance Hybrid set : 32,000 Health 15000 Toughness 1750 Precision 3700 Might 3900 Power 3800 Restoration 1100 Vitalization 400 Dominance "The Open World" - US PC Open world PvP phase has changed drastically from 2012. Today, in open world PvP phase, you see the same 5 heroes pointlessly trying to wipe out the 30 villains who stand at their midtown nightclub in Metropolis all day . It's terrible that heroes barely visit the open world PvP phase anymore. There a couple of reasons why heroes don't visit open world PvP like the old days, one is because of the villains of US PC, who babysit their midnight nightclub bouncers like they're the ones protecting them. Two is because there is no mutual spawn-point hangout between the heroes and the villains. This is a community based issue, an issue that can be fixed within the community, but the villain side of our community does not want it fixed because every day, they will be standing in the same area..waiting for those 5 heroes to show up. I would rather we move back to the hospital roof, the spawns were much more equal, wars for that roof control were much more frequent, and the helipad of the hospital was a respected renown dueling spot, where players did no ganking. A couple of reasons why the open world on US PC is a ghost town : Ring Wars reward horribly There are no low-levels to gank or help out because of the update months back that forces new players to level up to level 10 in the PvE phase. There is no tutorial explaining the PvP phase and the dangers that lie in it. There is no motive to PvP in open world, because there's nothing to PvP. Heroes can't kill villains because villains camp their nightclub in the 20s-30s, while there are little to no heroes around. Villains can't kill heroes because there are no heroes to kill LOL. People don't duel in the open world anymore because there is never anyone to duel. It's sad that if heroes want a duel, they have to go to the watch tower bridge in the PvE phase. There are no PvP phase events hosted by staff members ever, GM RuggedMonk doesn't even come on and throw cakes at us at our PvP hangout anymore. New players need to be able to enter the PvP phase without reaching level 10. The option needs to be added back into the character creation. Instead of removing it, a confirmation message should have been adding saying "You have selected to create your character in the Player vs Player phase. In this phase you may be attacked by members of the opposite faction during questing. You will be stuck in this phase until level 10, after you reach level 10, you may switch phases via the Phase Shifter in your headquarters". Is that so hard to implement rather than moving in completely? Some people might say "Ah they're just noobs, who needs em!". THE PVP PHASE NEEDS THEM. This introduces players to PvP and what goes on. This is what brings new competition into the game. Players that get ganked during questing tend to want to level and gear up to get stronger to wreak havoc on the opposite faction. Players want to learn how to become strong, they want to become the person that swoops in and saves the noobie. Believe it or not, not everybody joins this game to grind PvE. There ARE people looking for competition. Competition they won't find in the PvE phase.
You're just now finding out that pvp doesn't matter to the vast majority of devs? Also, ideas like this have been suggested for a very long time. They just don't care. I'm sure the devs are great people, but pvp is an afterthought to most of them.
Where did I write anywhere in the post that I am just now finding this out? Unless you're trying to change something positively with the PvP on this game, please refrain from posting. Negativity isn't needed here. People like you are the reason nothing changes. You think change is impossible and you reject it, it's sad. Also, like I said, some of these are ideas that I have already seen around the forum. So please, read before posting.
Oof, I wasn't trying to be negative. I'm being a realist. People like me? Have you seen me around? I'm always supporting threads looking for positive change. And where did I accuse you of stealing ideas? I just stated that these kinds of things have been suggested for a long time, meaning no change has come yet. So please, read before you post.
I never said you accused me of anything. What was the point of you saying ideas like this have been suggested and they don't care? Obviously if you read correctly you'd know that I am aware ideas like these have been brought up already. And they will keep being brought up until something is changed. As for you saying devs just don't care, did you miss that post about the dev trying to work with PvPers to fix counters and such? Your statement was just proven false and negative.
I said most devs. Most. Let's just go back to the point of the thread. I agree with you that some new stuff would be fun.
I agree with what you say 110%. I'm also a player on the US PC and I do believe that our server surely is lacking the PvP it once had. I believe that the role gear should be brought back as you stated and the health increase is for sure essential to prevent 2 shots and 1 shots. Also my ideas for perhaps getting PvP fun again would be adding new arena maps. We have had the same maps for 4 years I think for this year 2015 new maps should be added as it would truely enhance the enjoyment of the game. Some ideas include: League Hall PvP- Like scrims however you have a console where you can set up handi cap or even matches and fight at a random league hall against the other premade group Grouped King of The Hill- Another cool arena map would be perhaps a 5v5 on 1 single node. The objective is to stay on the node for a total of 3 minutes per say. So in order to this you have to knock out the other team and capture the node. Whoever captures the node for 3 minutes first wins the game. FreeFor all- How about a ring war event where you can be awarded prizes and its a free for all where everyone is on their own and your mission is to survive and be the last 1 standing, you can even add a leader board system for this. Examples of some new maps- Oan Sciencells Deathmatch, Trigons Prison 1v1 arena, Thanegarian arena (More Gladiator like) Also some other things that would be cool to see come back and some new stuff would be: PvP ranks- The more wins you have the more rank and status you earn( PvP Captain, PvP seargent) something like that PvP leaderboards Disabled AM in arena- Now i know this will be controversial however I honestly believe that these Advanced Mechanics are steering the game into a false path, I respectfully say this being a pvp player for a long time now i see that things such as Advanced Mechanics are killing the enjoyment of PvP you walk in now days getting 1 shotted by a player who doesnt even need to use counters! This is what bothers me! The devs have stated how they want PvE and PvP to be seperate then in that case why are you mixing them both together i have a solution to keep the AM for PvE but disable it for PvP why not have a seperate power tree for PvP only that doesnt incorporate the AM? When you walk into an arena the PvE power tree disables and PvP power tree enables that way its guarnteed their will be no AM use in an arena match. Finally Bring back role debuffs- By removing role debuffs pvp players truely cant see the enjoyment of fighting a controller or healer or tank. Allow me to explain: When you were a tank for example and fought a healer and won how does that make u feel? it makes you feel like you have accomplished a feat because healers get the buff over a tank. Same thing with controllers advantage over healers these things although may seem small made the game fun! I know the devs are trying to be simplistic with the game but the truth is that this is what will make your game a success. If i can log on and do 100 arena matches and win all from spamming an AM or spamming op bbs in the back then why should i care play this anymore if its that easy. The challenge is what made us players willing to log on and say "I want to be better today" "I want to be better at my counters" "I want to be the best healer killer as a tank" This is what made the game fun and this is what needs to happen in order for DCUO pvp community to once again come together and enjoy the game as a whole. Thank You.
While there are balance powers and whatever you want to blame the game for, the true problem are the players. So you say there are 20+ villains in pvp phase all the time? They don´t premade at all.
lots of good ideas, we definately need more pvp content. especially for the open world... the only time i go into the pvp phase is for farming collections, and thats because its empty which means i don't have to fight over a collection. i think that the pvp phase should have rewards for using it. killing players in pvp phase should yield marks of valor equal to queing up for a 1v1, instead of getting promethium boxes we should get the pvp reward boxes. any gear that drops from open world mobs should have toughness instead of defense stats. we only use that gear for styles anyway so whether it has defense or toughness is irrelevant, it might make people play there more and would help with gearing up as a low level, new players could gear up there and learn the pvp basics of dcuo, which means people would be more willing to try the pvp. all out war between heroes and villains on strykers or arkham. for 1 hour a week one of the islands should have a large node in the centre that can be captured, and the group (heroes or villains) that has the most time captured after the time expires gains a reward of some kind for all involved. maybe spawn in some iconic heroes and villains to help there side.
I used to love pvp ing but over a year ago. Maybe more pvp feats could help the scene. I would like to see those open world GM events Make a comeback
I will say it once and I will say it again. You forgot 3 major problems with pvp. 1. WM block breaker damage- Its gotten to the point where people dont even care if they get lunged at while doing a block breaker because the damage is too low. WM combos do so much damage its almost insane. Powers that have power back mechanics have a great advantage over powers that rely on WM to conserve power and that is crucial in pvp. 2. Powers are still not balanced- Devs cant really begin to fix major pvp problems, simply because all the powers dont have AM yet. Many powers that do have AM are highly imbalanced, and even if the dps sides are "balanced", the support roles by far are not balanced pvp wise. 3. Breakouts and CC- Breakouts are still broken in both legends and arenas. You can have a full power bar and still not be able to breakout from CC effects. Until these 3 items are fixed. PVP will always be considered "weak and depressing" and will continue to lose support from players.
I agree with this. I never understood why leveling in the PVP phase I was not getting PVP gear. I was asking for this 2-3 years ago. Back when you could chose a phase I used to love leveling in PVP phase. This is back when you were stuck in whatever phase you chose in creation. All you got gear wise was PVE gear. Why! They need to give that new PVP'r some incentive to stick it out in PVP. Give them some toughness to at least put up a little fight against the gankers. I guess it doesn't matter now with phase shifters and not being able to even chose PVP phase for leveling. Old man back in the day tirade over.
I'm really happy to see someone thinking through how to make pvp better. I agree with many of your points. In fact, during the dev design event at SOE Live my group came up with an open world pvp-based seasonal. Open world pvp is in desperate need of a facelift. On Public Enemies server, we would duel on the top of Lex Corp while waiting on the Ring War. Those were fun times. This season of pvp has attempted to attract new PvP players using stat banding to make things simpler to get started. Unfortunately, this does not address the primary issue with getting started in pvp: education. Players will run in being new to pvp and not understand complicated mechanics such as counters and immunities. Personally, I would love to see immunities removed entirely and leave any kind of immunity granting strictly to tank cleanses. This would keep tanks relevant in pvp and assist in simplifying the whole process. I know I will get a lot of backlash for saying this as many love the immunity farm pvp has become, but I remember the good times before immunities were as crucial as they are now. Those are the days I yearn to go back to. One thing that could be done by the pvp community to try and encourage participation would be to make a series of instructional videos detailing out each pvp map, objectives, and strategies. I would envision it as getting two scrimmage groups together with one person speaking. Unfortunately, pvp doesn't bring in the money like PvE, so I would be surprised to see a persistent focus on it. This creates a vicious cycle. Players start to pvp and get frustrated by issues, devs don't deliver fixes for an extended time, players get frustrated and give up, devs see fewer players in pvp, pvp doesn't prove to be lucrative enough to focus on, devs stick to the usual pvp season schedule, and back to the start. I'm hope I'm not out of line in saying this, but that's how it appears to me.
Removing immunities just gives DoT classes and characters a massive advantage. Removing it also limits viable tactics such as screen blocking, burst damage, finishers, even healing to an extend as it's what enables group survivability. Tanks can't grant that type of immunity. Were you referring to crowd control immunity by any chance? As per tutorials, we need more of those. Maybe with the new UI they can implement a few tutorial videos explaining how different maps function.
Right now there's a push (not sure how often you read this section) to have tank cleanses extended from 3-5 seconds along with a few other things. Counter immunity, for the reasons stated above plus some more that I didn't just pull off the top of my head does need to stay.
I read everything, but I prefer to stay out of it as much of the pvp community has a sour opinion of me. They would rather chase me out and make assumptions before hearing me out. I'm not into the theatrics of it. PvP is actually something I'm very passionate about and I consider it the real end-game. In fact, I nearly made the DC staff late for their flight home at SOE Live because I was talking Pez Fedora's ears off about PvP - not only in this game, but in other mmos, shooters, etc. Pez is really fun to talk to about PvP. What DCUO lacks in my opinion is mainly participation as well as some other things I'd rather not state here because it would be off topic. Back to the shadows now as I've said all I will say publicly. I'm just happy to throw support to this particular thread as I deem it worthy of the bump.
once you get endgame pve gear there's nothing really to do, except repeating content that you've done hundreds of times, grinding marks until you hit the cap and make money. pvp is definately the endgame for me, nearly finished my pve gear and now i am going back to the pvp. kinda funny that they dont put much effort into growing the pvp side of dcuo because it doesn't make them as much money, if the pvp was better and there was more content people would play more, and they would make more money from memberships and marketplace sales. making the pvp open world better with more stuff to do would be a huge step in the right direction, and i think that the pvp phase would be where the majority of people would be playing.
Open World: cannot be fixed. I, too, lament the current condition of Open World, but it's a lost cause due to Progression Gap. Even if they added more leveling options (content) in Open World, it wouldn't matter because it's so unrestricted. A Veteran character can be PvP-100CR/PvE-(max)CR + best Exomods/HomeTurf Mods/Trinkets + end-game Consumables/Trinkets + over-150 SP, add that with years of combat-experience, they can basically stop any new-to-mid tier character's progression with little to no problem. For example, even if I wanted to stop one Max-Geared Ganker, I'm at a massive disadvantage with my low-tier characters (CR97). I would have to deal with getting Orbital Striked, attacked by the Henchmen/Sidekick, surviving a non-crit capped combo/rotation/counter, and then watching them heal back to full-health with Supply Drops and the best Soders if I actually manage to damage the ganker. It's no surprise why most progressing players bailed on Open World. It just wasn't worth the effort of even trying. The sad part is that Open World used to be the place to learn combat and network with other players (form alliances or rivalries). I believe that's why some players became so good at combat. They dueled in front the HQ, they ganked/defended new players (which gave them experience in attacking multiple opponents), they formed teams for HQ Raids and League Wars (for team-strategy experience). It's when they needed to better gear, they went into Arenas / Legends, they bought DLCs for the latest non-Armor advantages. Then returned to Open World to show off their new gear. That networking is essential. After a while, I got used to the veteran-regulars. I was in-game friends with both Heroes and Villains, it gave me the incentive to be better at PvP-combat. I just think characters got too powerful in Open World, they started to focus more on themselves than help others, and obliterated any upcoming potential competition. --- Arenas: I won't concentrate on the actual combat details While the Boosted Gear saved everyone the hassle of buying Cash-Gear (CR96), the combination of WM/AM and Purchased Feats created a two-prong attack on new-to-mid tier players. Skilled Veterans can either use their Max-Geared characters (apparently 35% better than the Boosted Gear) or Twinked-Alts (Boosted Gear + lots of Skillpoints) to beat the competition. It creates a frustrating experience to any new-to-mid tier player. So let's say I have a progressing 98CR (no Mods) character (I don't), I'm still out-geared by the top-players. In order to somehow have a "fair fight" I still have to win (or lose twice) for better gear... and get mods. If I get demolished by a Level 12-twinked (or even Level 30 still wearing PvE-armor that was Boosted) character, that just looks bad. It makes me question the point of progressing my gear. While I'm well aware it was a combat-skill issue, it's still an extremely embarrassing situation as I'm still getting used to combat (that keeps changing every update). --- The trouble is PvP doesn't particularly have a place to actually progress combat-skills (including Teamwork) anymore. Out-geared in Open World. Out-skilled in Arenas. Not using your character in Legends. Somehow there needs to be a way to allow players to progress to the level of experienced Veterans without ruining queue times for Veterans. There needs to be a method not to embarrass or frustrate new players out of PvP entirely. How? I'm not sure anymore. There are too many options for advantages nowadays.
