Not granting rewards to non-offenders is illogical so it's my assumption that the validity of this game "logic" mentioned in your post has a high probability to be flawed. Implementing this system was a waste of resources and has more of a negative impact than a positive one. I'll elaborate. Let's throw out a hypothetical... A troll (player of ill repute) goes into legends matches at lv5. He then throws matches because he is a troll and wants to ruin the fun of everyone. After numerous upset customers quitting the game due to SOE product mismanagement, the customer support team finally removes the player from the community. Since DCUO is a F2P game he can just create a new account and continues the same song and dance. Soap and Lather. Rinse and repeat. You get it? Do you see why this system is nearsighted and ultimately foolish? This system rewards the trolls (See aforementioned description) and can potentially affect players that didn't do anything wrong. Seriously SOE it's time to wake up before you lose even more players from the PvP community. As a consumer, I feel that I can't trust you to make in-game community standards decisions that are going to benefit the PvP community more than disrupt and ultimately destroy it.
I'm all for having people participating more in PvP if they still want rewards from a loss, but not making know what is required by a person in any given match to even receive those rewards, for a loss I mean, isn't right. On the same level I also understand why they don't want to make that public knowledge because people will and always do find a way around it. Regardless though I still believe it should be made public because if they can't even make it full proof enough to where people can't subvert whatever the criteria may be then it shouldn't be implemented. Like someone already said, what if I spend an entire time on a node and get no action from the other team leaving me with near no damage or none at all? This has happened a number of times to me running Australia while sitting on the communications node. And also like others have said they feel people should participate to receive rewards in PvP because to receive rewards in PvE you are required to complete the content and thus it should be for PvP too, if people don't participate then they shouldn't receive anything which I agree with but say the people who don't enjoy PvP stop playing it and stick to PvE why should they except the constant nerfs and changes to powers and weapons because PvPers complain about so and so power or weapon is to OP or whatever the case may be. I don't know the exact number of changes to powers or weapons that have been implemented because of PvP or PvE but I suspect it leans more towards PvP changes and thus PvE often gets hurt in the process.
And how exactly are said players supposed to get better without facing stronger opponents? If a team is dominating and suddenly the other team decides to quit means there was participation but it stopped from only one party. Just because they're paying customers doesn't mean they're immune from ban or entitled to everything. I can buy a dog but that doesn't mean I can treat it like crap.
Improvement is not a requirement of PVP. The very argument used by Enquirer in quoting the Devs is that participation is the goal. This is important, I agree, because participation creates community. But you should ask yourself what kind of community do you wish to create? It is an assumption from those who seek to win at all costs, that you will always fight and grow stronger from each conflict you face. But real assessments of human conflict and history shows that there is no such magical formula. People win... or they lose. Quite often, the same people who lose will continue to lose. The facts of time, statistical odds, and entropy are that you will inevitably grow weaker, lose more often, and backslide just as much if not more so than you improve or strengthen yourself. The Cult of the Victor has unfortunately created a myth around winning and deriving your sense of self from your victories. It's a lie. In a game as opposed to real-life conflict, there is a measure of courtesy which softens the blow and is called good sportsmanship. Demonstration of good sportsmanship is in fact, learning to have a measure of understanding and empathy with your opponent, for you too will likely find yourself bloodied and beaten someday as well. I have made many friends and had positive outcomes from challenges in which I took a moment aside, stopped fighting, and communicated with my opponent. Sometimes it was to simply relate to one another, other times it was because one of us saw something was not quite right with the match, perhaps there was a disparity of skill or a handicap, and sometimes it was to teach or advise someone struggling. Respect, mutual respect, is established this way. Participation AND community are achieved through these moments. This new policy, the push for making people fight, to fight hard and fight long, without regard towards the opponent or the honor of the match, is ruinous and toxic for the community. Without the freedom and the opportunity to be merciful, all we are creating is an environment in which there are only bullies and victims. What we end up with is a community of vicious, cruel, and blind drones who eschew empathy, mercy, and decency to become like what you see below...
Who says they want to get better? Most hate PvP so much now that they only do it to get Marks for the Style Feats. I get what you're saying about paying customers not being immune to discipline, but it's a very fine line for SOE. At a minimum, not participating in PVP matches is only ruining the experience for those wanting to actually PVP. Ban someone and you're ruining experiences for both parties.
while its definatly a step in the right direction im betting some ****** some were will find a way to use it to their advantage to abuse and greif others and then well see complaints on that i give it two days after it goes live
your scoring by standing on the node that would have been a serious over-site by the devs if that were the case im willing to bet thats part of the equation
well the fantastic part is this is what a ton of us have been asking for the past moth in the threads on this topic and i Personally think its fantastic to see they listen to us and try to find ways to make it work.. just like if there is a flaw in this im sure it will get changed.. nothing is permanent this is a ever changing game at least the devs pay attention
Yes, listen to that vocal minority. I imagine they'll torpedo Fire Tanking improvements again like they did last time in the name of PVP "balance." If such tomfoolery prevails again I just may have to quit, as it'll be apparent that the miniscule minority has way too much power in this game.
I think this solution to the problem, especially if it doesn't work as intended because that never happens in dcuo, is just going to cause more problems than it'll solve.
If the games are close that's one thing, but if the other group is destroying you, it don't make players better. Progression is progression for a reason, arguments like the one you making is wrong
I'm in the largest league on the villain side us ps server. DEATH ANGELZ has 420 members and a lot of fully gear last tiered players. They have a lot of experienced pvpers who play pvp all day everyday and we often talk about the state of pvp. It saddens me to see so many great pvpers quitting the game because the one aspect of the game that they loved is being killed. The devs are holding people's hands and babying people in pvp. The balance was a good idea initially but they over balanced it by not increasing the stats on the hush gear. Level 10s being on par with geared players is rediculous and support roles again are over nerfed in arenas while dps have no nerf what so ever. This game favors dps, and new players more than the people who put in hundreds of dollars and years into this game. This bias is the very reason why people sit and do nothing in pvp in the first place. Instead of punishing people who are already upset, why not fix the problem. For example: the game is pve biased. If you wear pvp gear in pve you don't get a hand held free stat boost..... So why do pve geared players get such a large boost in pvp. They mine as well do away with pvp/pve gear and just add toughness to pve gear. With so many mmos coming in 2015 I honestly see the numbers plummeting in dcuo if this issue isn't resolved soon as this game will become a pve game only.
This is exactly what led to this change. These feat chasers have been running loose for too long and continuously kept ruining experience for those who really want to PvP. If they hate PvP so much they don't want even so much as to legitimately participate, then I'm sorry (not really), but they don't deserve the feats in any form. Popular excuse is that they need feats for PvE, which I totally understand. Devs made the game where playing all content (PvP and PvE simultaneously) will get you rewarded the most. You can always choose only one (which these people do), but then please be mature enough not to use a way around the system at the expense of others or ask for hand-outs. In other words, should one choose to participate in only one side of the content for whatever reason, it's a directive to be prepared for any possible consequences - in this case, lack of feats. You're basically saying "It's ok for innocent people to get punished, but it's not ok for both innocent and those at fault to get punished". Which is the lesser evil again? I respectfully disagree. By not wanting to improve people will only further ruin the experience of themselves and others through bad performance. It's NOT ok to not want to improve, as in sports, so in this game. It is to my understanding that definition of sportsmanship differs from person to person. It's very insulting to me when a person quits whether on my team or the opposing. Refer to red. My experiences were quite the contrary. If an event that I would forfeit a 1v1 match in the favor of a much lesser geared opponent (pre GU41), insults and hate mail followed by superiority complex and ridiculing ensued. If I had experiences similar to yours, maybe I wouldn't be so fanatical to support this development, but I would support it nonetheless. If people's mentality can change through making new rules in a game mode they potentially don't even want to be in, then I am speechless.
This will end in tears. For everyone. I have zero (0) faith in them coding a system to detect my participation in PVP and evaluate it correctly. Potential bans due to non performance, make me never want to PVP again. That coupled with the broken PVP system (counters are borked on PS) makes it easy for me to walk away from PVP entirely. I will say I have queued to farm marks in PVP, but I only do this in 1v1s.
No offense, but you're really going to have to elaborate a little bit when you say things like "monitoring how well the system is working" and "obvious repeat offenders" because you guys don't exactly jump at the opportunity to look into wrongful bans. https://forums.station.sony.com/dcuo/index.php?threads/banned-for-cheating.227282/#post-2925790 When someone is banned for suspected cheating you guys tend to just cite the excuse of "we can't say what you were banned for because it will make it easier for other people to game the system". If this system is going to be so easily abused that explaining to us what qualifies as participation will let people game the system, I'm going to go out here on a limb and say it probably isn't a very good system to begin with. Overall, I think punishing people for this type of activity in some manner isn't completely unreasonable, but what you're doing here is handing a bunch of Amish people electric powered chainsaws with no manual. It won't end well.
I'm right there with ya. I won't be pvp'ing after this goes live, at the very least for a few weeks/months to see how it all plays out. I've never "gamed the system" , and never will, but where do synch matches fall into this spectrum? What about premades who random queue, face another premade and get dominated, so the next time they face them they throw the match and make it so nobody gets marks? There seems to be a lot of room for griefing left here, just to appease a few of the "I don't want to face mark farmers in pvp" players. I guess we just have to wait and see.
say one group is completely slaughtering another group, and when the match is halfway done, the losing group completely gives up. does nobody get rewards? even though the winning team would have one legitimately if the other team simply kept playing? where do you draw the line for this type of behavior? 1/3 of the way through the match? 1/2? 2/3? i dont know how the devs are gonna figure this out and make it work flawlessly.
