Can We Get an AM Update?

It feels good to know the devs are constantly trying to improve the power mechanics and the after seeing Hl WIP thread for a new AM, I must say I am impressed by their willingness to listen. I dont know if its becasue Hl has such a large community, but Id like to think that this applies to all powersets. Which brings me to the point of this thread. I remember switching to fire when they started talking about a possible update, just to participate in the discussion and throw some of my ideas, but to my disappointment there wasnt any WIP thread for fire. Despite that the idea of mobility is i must say very cool, the problem is Mobility is it doesnt "directly" translate to dps like all the other AMs do, and while I find the concept very interesting, in current state it DOES NOT match the dps to WM, its counterpart, let alone the other AMs. Now I dont want to comapre it with other AMs, specially since fire is the only power set with mobility right now, but the damage output from AM is not simply enough to compete with WM ( WM based loadout will DO Significantly more damage than AM one, if the players are equally skilled, I can guarantee ).
A lot of people want the casting timer to be gone, but since thats like the main part of the AM I gave it some thought and I have some ideas ( The other option is to buff their base damage and make them more consistant, but to me thats not a permanent solution, since well ninja nerfs XP )
Anyway keeping mobility in mind:

Maybe make Fireburst a charged attack, much like Weapon holds before WM, so you get more damage if you hold button untill its fully charged, but you can always release it in midway and get some decent damage. That way if you cannot cast the whole power you still have some damage output instead of zero.

Add an enemy count factor to Mass detonation. It is called MASS detonation. So maybe it does base+some constant*number of enemies. This would solve both the problems with damage/time ratio and the inconsistent damage from it.

I am not demanding this changes now, nor do I claim these are the only ways to do it. I fully understand there are powersets that do not have any AMs at all, but maybe since atleast one of them is going to have mobility too, the devs can go over fire while they are at it. And hopefully a WIP along the way.

2 things to keep in mind: Volatility is just a PI at the end of the day, I dont consider it as an AM, and same goes for power returns since they are not unique to fire.

What do you guys think?

Edit: I have played with almost every powersets available in the game and currently do not have a fire toon. This thread is 90% bias free.

Come on folks throw in some ideas! Fire needs some love.

i agree…fire's am is way too weak…eliminate cast time on mass det, make it instant cooldown, and make damage consistently high…give other powers in the powerset be affected by thermal absorbtion….so that powers like overheat, inferno, spontaneous combustion, etc can give power back

Ha ha that would be op. I dont think casting time needs to be removed entirely, MD just needs to be more consistent with its big hits.
Power returns are secondary for WM loadouts but I can see how that could be important for people who goes full AM (Which is another reason why WM is the better option for DPS now)

Fire needs an increase on the base damage of Mass Det and have it consistent. I have a loadout with the AM in it, but hardly use it because the returns are mediocre. It could be fun to use in compliments with WM, but until its damage is increased, I'll stick to WM. The cast time is fine, cooldown is fine, but it's reward needs to justify the build up. Currently, the reward is disappointing. I wouldn't mind down the road if they add a power or 2 to the AM to make it more versatile, but Mass Det needs to be FIXED first and foremost.

This is what I think is the main problem, specially because pretty much the whole AM is built around Mass detonation. And when you can do around 15k damage with WM and Spontaneous Combustion at the same time you need to cast a 5k MD, it doesn't seem right.

The main problem and ONLY problem, but you're right, I do better with WM and SC that I will ever do with MD. Keep up the feedback and keep posting in the discussion threads. Hopefully they will see it.

And much more powers should be affected by thermal absorbtion so they give power back...let fire be self sufficient, and versatile like gadget's am rotations

Well depends on how you look at it. As far as I know fire AM is the only one one which is both WM crits excluded and Vulnerable to counter at the same time. That includes setting up the volatility PI which does not have any clear indicator when it runs out, and despite the description ( when used against burning enemies increases the damage they take ) only works for Mass Detonation. There is no room to incorporate any hard hitting burst damage unlike other AMs since that time is spent casting MD. And all these contribute to the Damage output. So I wouldn't say that's the only problem.
I plan to switch to fire soon, that's the reason I wanted some feedback. I have no intention of posting about the same thing over and over in discussion, it's up to the whole community to give the devs feedbacks not just one individual.

It really does need a comb over, with it being the first AM a second look couldn't hurt. As the new AM's have much more versatility to them. The numbers off EMP which is all based off PI is nothing close to what MD has ever seen especially seeing as over all its much quicker then a FB>MD combo or w.e combo you are using to apply the PI (and no im not crying that gadgets is too op). The damage needs to be more consistent going from a decent 15k crit to only hitting 2k is kind of ridiculous.

More of a generalized statement not so much directed at you. Should have said we as in the community need to keep the feedback going. My bad.

You do realize that HL Am has been broken since WM launched with update 36. The developers tried to fix the issue with update 38 and 41; both failures. The HL community has not been quite about this, because the developers stated that HL AM is combo, but if you play a HL and do the endless combo AM your DPS value is half, again half, or any other power for damage. That is indeed a broken AM. To make it worst, to do any good damage with the AM of HL, you have to get up close and personal, which results in one shots. The HL community has been asking for endless range combo just like the endless melee combo; well we are now finally getting both. Yippie…
Looking at HL as an example is horrible as the community of HL have been very vocal as the AM was broken and did not keep up with other powers AM or even WM. This is why you see HL players getting excited about this change, and I am one of them.
Now if you want to talk about Gadgets as a power, I'm all ears. This powersets needs a slight nerf with EMP. The damage on that is crazy and hits for 7K without crits and 15+K when it crits. My best HL power with crits hits up to 7K and that is with a PI. That should give you an idea on why some people are asking for gadets to be nerfed a bit. I don't want that group to suffer like HL, but a 25% damage nerf is needed, especially where it is having a negative impact to the PVP community who are none gadget players.

Only thing fire needs is mass detonation damage to be raised and more consistent. 10-15k the lowest cast and each cast.

Whether we like it or not, i think a lot of it has to do with the popularity of the power itself. Fire's been "broken" so long much of the player base don't even care about it anymore and even less actually plays with it. Probably that's why we have multiple WIP and AMs for some powers and none for others. Not that I have anything against them trying to improve other powers, its just seeing fire still being somewhat ignored, it feels wrong.

I am glad we think alike. If people dont voice their concerns you cant blame the devs for ignoring them. That's one thing I like about HL community, they know what they want and they have made the devs get back to the drawing board, which is a huge accomplishment itself, now how that plays out remains to be seen.

First of all they will get HL right sooner or later, just because they have to. I also agree HL is not the ideal DPS power right now, but I really think they are working on it their best. As for your comparison with gadgets, Id rather see them get Hl on per with gadgets rather then nerfing gadgets. Nerfing is the biggest reason why we have all these imbalanced and broken powersets now.

This is exactly it nerfs are not needed if they would just put the other power sets damage in line with gadgets. Granted i get this could be difficult finding that sweet spot but nerfs really don't fix the issue at large.

Well they gotta finish what they started. ICE then was it Quantum and a 3rd doesnt have AM at all. 1st get it for all class's then hammer out the dents with their non existent spare time I guess.

That's what makes me worried, they will always have issues to work on. what matters is their priorities. I agree they should work on the other AMs but Id rather see them taking one step at a time and do it right, along with fixing things that might need fixing. That's why I was hoping they would take another look at fire when they work on next power with mobility.
Waiting a bit longer for AM is better than winding up with a rushed up AM like fire got.

As soon as I found out they were basing the AM off Mass Detonation my hopes for Fire's AM were dashed. Mass D has been troubled for a long time, the damage range is too broad and too capable of whiffing. Basing an AM around that... It's not very compatible with WM either so you end up having to make a choice, with WM being more dependable. At the very least, WM is superior for any content below 4man.

I swear the only reason T6 had such high health pools for the bosses was to make AMs like Fire's look good (if the fight goes on that long, eventually a Crit will pop...right?)