Trailblazing Guide to Fire

Discussion in 'Oracle’s Database (Guides)' started by Soulburn32, Feb 16, 2013.

  1. JimsArcade Well-Known Player

    SB, that seems close to what I've been running since the new Fire went live. After thorough investigating on Test, I thought I found the perfect HB range rotation combining WM+AM for Fire. Just today I realized why it's not:

    With Enduring Damage mod: WM>Wildfire, SF>AH>JC, 3xSF>FC, {Arrow Fling WM>SC, FW, FC, MD, WM>SC, FC}*
    * repeat rotation within { }

    The rotation is never boring and the timing is perfect: FW's cooldown ends just an instant after every other WM>SC. Then it just hit me: half of my WM>SC combos aren't getting the WM crits because of FC taking over the PI half the time. :( So... back to the drawing board.

    While I can see the damage benefits of not using Absorb Heat, I feel the need to keep Absorb Heat in my AM rotations. On the occasions when I accidentally don't apply Thermal Absorption, I have yet to find trolls that can keep up with the power I'm draining in addition to other players' power needs (even after I'm popping soders and supply drops). Besides, I really enjoy seeing my ratio of damage to net-power-in blow away everyone else in the group and giving the trolls more power for CC's.
  2. Heero Blaze Well-Known Player

    I haven't had much trouble "keeping up" with WM or other AMs using solely Mass Detonation, so I don't believe trying to chain WM and AM together with Fire is the best way to DPS, but if you guys have numbers, I can definitely be persuaded.

    Here is my setup:
    Loadout: Fiery Weapon, Wildfire, Spontaneous Combustion, Fireburst, Absorb Heat, Mass Detonation
    As the standard thinking is now, use Wildfire + Spontaneous Combustion + WM for adds with low health (though some T6 adds do have high enough health for AM)

    As for the AM, the setup is fairly straightforward Wildfire -> Fiery Weapon -> Absorb Heat (JC) -> Fireburst -> Mass Detonation -> Range Weapon Attack* -> Mass Detonation -> Range Weapon Attack* -> and so on with Fiery Weapon being refreshed as needed.

    *If you time the Range Weapon Attack correctly, you should see the weapon attack animation after start of the Mass Detonation animation.

    The last test I did was with 4425 Base Might. Combined with a trinket and Fiery Weapon, that raises to 5088 or 6277. Average damage for Mass Detonation was around 7,600 with a range of 4032 to 13488. Adding Supply Drop can boost the damage out to 28,000 (I've heard it go beyond 30,000, but haven't seen it myself to confirm). Of course, the other advantage of the AM is that the target is constantly Burning, so that is additional 100-300 damage while casting Mass Detonation. The weapon attack thrown in (depend on your Precision and weapon) can add additional damage to the rotation. So that should bring the rotation closer to 8k.

    Finally, the power replenished with the AM is almost ridiculous, 800-1000 per cast. I've had Power Out at the end of instances around 25% of what the Controllers are putting out.

    Don't be fooled if you see Mass Detonation deal 4,000 or 5,000, you just have to stick with it and cast it as many times as possible to get the most chances to see those 9k, 10k, 11k, hits. Obviously you want to have all your Critical Chance skills to improve your odds. If you have a solid tank and knowledge of the enemy, you can avoid getting interrupted and spam away.
  3. CaptainNova Well-Known Player

    Not sure if this has been talked about but I like to think about PvP what do you guys think for both a DPS/Tank loadout

    Enflame, fiery weapon,overheat, SC, Speed Drain and Burnout?
  4. Korlick Loyal Player

    And if your timing is perfect, you can use the 1 Handed=Hand Blasters WM combo (havent tested the timing with another weapon) and clipped with Spont . Combustion (no WM bonus window).
    So it would be like this : Wildfire/Inferno=>Fiery Weapon, Heat Vision=>JC, Fireburst, Mass Det=>WM combo=>Spont. Combustion, Mass Det=>WM combo=>Spont. Combustion, Mass Det=>refresh Inferno DoT´s if you are using it and Fiery Weapon Buff...etc...

    But you have to time it perfectly otherwise, you loose the Volatility and Thermal effects. The window to pull out the WM combo and the Spont Combustion is very small.
  5. Soulburn32 Loyal Player

    Thats why I think using FC after spont is the best bet, its fast and refreshes all the AM mechanics so you have plenty of time
    • Like x 1
  6. CaptainNova Well-Known Player

    FC does more damage from volatility?
  7. Soulburn32 Loyal Player

    Credit to JimsArcade but apparently so:

    Flaming Cascade w/ Volatility level 1 - Average damage per hit:
    • Non-Crit: 331.7 (x4 = 1,327 per cast)
    • Crit: 725.9 (x4 = 2,903 per cast)
    • Total: 430.2 (x4 = 1,721 per cast)
    Flaming Cascade w/ Volatility level 3 - Average damage per hit:

    • Non-Crit: 480.9 (x4 = 1,924 per cast)
    • Crit: 942.1 (x4 = 3,768 per cast)
    • Total: 662.1 (x4 = 2,648 per cast)
    Therefore, Flaming Cascade does see increased damage as volatility increases (in this test: over 50% more damage via Volatility lvl 3 vs. lvl 1).

    His original post is on page 103
  8. CaptainNova Well-Known Player

    this is now replacing over heat in all loadouts lol
  9. CaptainNova Well-Known Player

    i wonder does volatilty work in Tank role?
  10. Korlick Loyal Player

    Oh i hadnt read your post in the previous page. But yes, That works better. Its safer and you can easily hit the WM combo bonus to get a stronger Spont. Combustion.
  11. JimsArcade Well-Known Player

    So now I wanted to verify the tooltip for Flame Cascade where it states "Weapon Mastery Crit Excluded". My character has every dps crit bonus, so WM should always crit... except if certain powers cancel it.

    I was about to post all of the data, but the actual numbers are mostly irrelevant. What happened is that it didn't matter if the refreshed dot's were coming from Mass Det or Flaming Cascade. In every test, all WM->Spont Comb critted the might damage, and the average numbers were very close. (OK some data from my tests [might=5042]: WM->SC's average might damage when dot's were coming from MD: 4,213; when dot's were coming from FC: 4,257.) As far as I can tell, either the tooltip is misleading or FC is bugged.

    No complaints here, because that means I can go back to my rotation I posted earlier. I don't know if I'm maxing damage, but I almost don't care because it's so fun! :D
    • Like x 1
  12. Soulburn32 Loyal Player

    I believe they are referring to the burst portion of the power as FC is considered a channeled power it isn't meant to get the WM crit bonus even though some of the damage probably does register within the window.
    • Like x 2
  13. Heero Blaze Well-Known Player


    I was under the impression Spontaneous Combustion consumed the Burning PI and therefore weakened Mass Detonation from an earlier post. But after testing, that is not the case and I definitely can see SC weaved in to an AM-focused loadout, so thanks for the suggestion.

    Is Heat Vision powerful? I read much about it recently.
  14. Korlick Loyal Player

    Hmm i dont know. I was testing in League Hall, and i was too lazy to go to the WT and respec powers to test different things lol
  15. Del Maestro Well-Known Player

    It's probably way to early to call for a buff but I think mass det needs one. One if the advantages of running the AM was the 60% damage modifier that came with mass det, now with max damage that will be pointless. The wm loadout is getting buffed by at least 10%,and I'd probably go more towards 15%, while the AM loadout will remain the same. I think mass det should get a 15% damage buff
    • Like x 1
  16. Fools Fire Loyal Player

    ^^^^ Agreed. And give it a minimum damage amount which scales according to CR. For instance, if you're a 108 CR then the minimum damage would be 10,000.

    About Max Damage: Will we see a Dots-R-Us loadout again?

    Fiery Weapon - Inferno - Overheat - Wild Fire - Heat Vision - Absorb Heat
    • Like x 1
  17. Stark23 Committed Player

    Stark Fire is back, switched back to Fire last night. My original toon, I bought a couple power respec tokens during the June 50% off sale so I could try out some other powers but always planned on coming back.

    I tried keeping up with this thread and the testing feedback thread but they both kind of blew up during testing. Seems like burst is still the way to go, but wouldn't mind running a hybrid. Not sure if that's possible though with Fire, certainly is with Electric.

    I'm bursting right now with Overheat - Inferno - SC - NVB (only b/c I refuse to run RS) - FW - VC, set up two dots and then WM into SC. I've been just melting content with it but it's pretty power heavy.

    Glad to be back, looking for some ideas for burst and maybe a hybrid.
  18. Soulburn32 Loyal Player

    Basically the hybrid is to incorporate FC and Mass Det while using SC for burst.
    - Absorb heat if you want power back
  19. Burnt New Player

    I notice there is a renewed love affair with wildfire but I'm missing it. Can you please explain why it's better to use over inferno besides the cool down? The ticks seem very small in comparison.
  20. SkullGang Devoted Player

    When struggling on power I go with wildfire. If power is good then I use overheat clipped with fiery weapon and then inferno for burning and 50% modifier. Otherwise I just stick with wildfire clipped with fiery weapon.