Update on GU 36

Wait... precision sets that do little power usage? Where are those at? What is this precision power sets that use little power that you speak of? This is the type of misinformation thats gets nerfs started in the first place.

Rage, Cel, HL are usually at the top of power usage. If you are not, then you aren;t doing it right.

message dreamteam12 in Aristocrats. His Earth DPS tops rage DPS all day.

Problem is, devs are going of misinformation, conjecture, and here say when it comes to a lot of these nerfs. Most all the powersets are highly effective in the right players hands... thing with HL and Rage is, you have so many 'how to' guides making everyone an expert and where are they for other sets?

I just got told my rage DPS on villain side is OP and I should get nerfed (even though I played as fire in the raid) There was a rage and two celestial DPS alongside me... 40 min AB run: my fire DPS: 2.4 million dmg out, the rage DPS in 2nd place had 800k.

Had I been rage that entire raid would have came on here and posted that 'Rage is OP' when in reality, it is the player, not the power.

There ya go. Nuff said.

I'm not sure if I posted this here or on the original UD36 thread, either way I hope a dev reads it, I'm still having some issues with HL, to be more specific it's when trying to make Ram go to ST, it sometimes does, but other times it breaks into hold melee, I've also only tested with rifle so it would be nice to know if we can't use rifle period of just as a weapon but still keep it on our toons until it's fixed. I believe it's a timing issue but I did not see anything on the notes that said you needed to wait a specific time to continue combos on HL or they would break, and since Ram is the fastest HL move I don't see how a time could even be put into place for it, another note this happens when I do Ram-ST, but mostly it happens when I do Claw-H.Claw(or just finish the combo without clipping to HC)-Ram-ST, I have no issues going from either Claw move to Ram, it's Ram to ST where the problem is.

HL is the only one of the three that is high and can burn as much as Gadgets in the right hands. Rage and Celestial are never top in Power In amidst a non-Sorcery DPS. Rage's Power In only increases when they enter melee range. A Rage DPS spamming Dreadful Blast and Plasma Retch alone will surely not be Highest in Power in(Overwriting your own dots much ) . Celestial has always had the Highest Damage to Power ratio. If you are a Rage DPS that is not melee'ing or a Celestial DPS with the highest power in then you are "not doing it right".

Nevermind, That just proved what I expected. Perhaps you should go back to Fire where you're the "Best".

There is no numerous fire people making threads. That's my task. And I have never made a "nerf everything else" thread, so don't be start making the fire community out as the bad guys because all you have to do is look at my thread history and see that I am clearly all for buffing.

and if your referring to my stance on the conversation at hand. I don't care if Rage is stronger, but the reason the Devs gave for intentionally making it OP is some BS. Rage is not hard to play period. Increase its difficulty than the justification will be correct. But as of now its easy mode and player base reflects that. If anything I want its difficulty buffed not its damage nerfed


So again. Until you understand what someone is communicating, don't try to start painting a community with a stupidly long brush. Its especially rude considering most of that community is gone. Its like talking bad about someone after they already left the room

You can definitely suck power as Rage and (pre-GU 36) HL. Celestial, though, I have difficulty getting worse than 10:1 damage to power. I think my all time worst was 6:1. Sure, you can JC Defile (for now), but the damage gain for power cost is hardly worth it.

I was thinking the same thing. What an interesting set of circumstances, hmm?

Rage/Celestial topping power use? LOL.

Your are not doing it right.

They need to put Fire DPSing back the way it was before the stupid Fire/Ice updates. They destroyed Fireburst.

It is still very good for melee DPS, especially in higher tired content where ads have large health pools. Most T5 raids has parts when you can jump in and melee.

True statements and yes the Dev’s clearly have not mastered nor do they play the game very often as exemplified by the statements by their team over the past couple of days.

There is balance that does need to happen but they are not looking in the right places most of the time.

I will say though that finding a Earth DPS or Eletric DPS in a raid is like finding that damn Unicorn everyone on here is talking about

This thread has caused mass confusion and has lead to constant player/power set bashing.

If a member had created this thread it would have been locked by now.

*Hint

great post G.
pretty much my general observations as well.
a bit of caution really couldnt hurt anything but could possibly avert disaster.

i too think these changes are in the right direction for better overall class balance, but there is definitely a possibility that it is just 'too liitle too late'.
generally id almost rather see things added in attempts to balance rather than taken away. though that is sorta what got us where we are now in the first place.


***
--What i'm getting at though is that the DPS role has basically dominated all progressive class development over the last 2 years, so maybe the answer for better overall role balance would be to leave dps alone and completely focus on new ways to improve the other roles.
now of course i realize some of the changes currently happening do effect all roles, but at the core things like jump canceling are really all about DPS tactics.

The one thing myself and other players that prefer the 3 roles over dps-ing have generally experienced is that we can basically play our role the exact same way we did in 2011. Whereas DPS mechanics and tactics have been a constant evolution and therefore constantly presenting new challenges for players to master.
--If anything the non-DPS roles have DEVOLVED ____such as controllers being reduced to batteries.

For me, this is the real issue i have when i hear about new mechanics being introduced.
In fact the initial Weapon Mastery presentation from the webcast was completely DPS focused, and it was'nt until afterwards in the discussiong that Spytle did a 180 and started saying he wanted to get away from that direction...

My point--- changes to mechanics, IE-jump canceling, are still only really focusing on 1 out of the 4 roles in game.
TBH DCUO at this point is a DPS game... sometimes i really think it is just too late to change the direction, and we might even be better served moving forward by either:
1. eliminating roles- making everyone a dps with a sub role based on their powerset, IE troller powers get powers that 'buff' power regen/ healer powers get extra 'healing' moves, --but it is not there main purpose.
2. eliminating DPS- pretty much the same concept as # 1 just flip the script.

now, obviously those are most likely not going to happen to a 3 year old game and would have to wait for a sequel, but the reason i bring it up is this is how bad i feel role balance has become.

as much as myself and other dedicated controllers, healers, and tanks LOVE our roles it is just not as fun to play the roles as they were originally or conceptually.
on the other hand the evolution and emphasis on the DPS role have constantly presented new challenges and a general feeling of being powerful like a superhero should...
--->> I mean c'mon... when i first created a Controller in beta i never thought to myself:
" hey this class looks like fun!- i can't wait to have 3000 hours of experience and be able to hit recharge over and over and over and over and over again! w000!!!"

And there is the issue IMHO.
i knew 3/4 roles were basically never going anywhere a year ago when i finally caved into running my solos/ duos in DPS stance and could finish them in half the time.

so, my final thought for the devs on these issues is just a general point:
Make the other 3 roles as challenging, important, and SELF-SUFFICIENT in their own right again.
Create role balance so when a new player picks up the game he actually sees four independant and distinct options that are all viable on their own because of their own special ablities--- NOT becuase they can just switch to DPS anytime they want.

thanks for reading.

I know Liberty chimed in yesterday and posted what sounded like they are going for equal balance or close to. TBH I'm not convinced til I see evidence and proof from game update 36. So far from what I read after the test server...there are still issues...not any mention that balance is one the rise or we are leaning towards it. Only consensus that I have found out that drove tails/standard animations are here to stay, combat has slowed down, and takes longer to take down adds since all powers received a nerf across the board with AOE nerf.

aoe nerf has to be one of the worst decisions ever made in this game. balance, ok great. we all want that but no one wants to slow it down. sorry you are losing me with this one devs.

I assume we haven't seen balance in 3 years because the team responsible for it was busy focusing on DLC powers and power revamps with the intent to enable more DLC powers.

Unicorn trinkets coming soon, in form of GU36

Right on... I wonder if the Dev’s are every willing to display their “Mastery” of these power sets and truly show if there is “balance” post GU 36. That would be fun to watch.

Pasted your original post below...
(This is pretty much what I was getting at. There are specifics that Spord and Tunso would be more qualified to answer, particularly with HL details. This is a complicated and controversial set of changes, so it's easy to do more harm than good when I say something )

Remander said: ↑

“I'm curious to know what is meant by "slight." Not surprised by the statement, though. What follows is neither directly in support or in criticism of that statement. Rather, it's an attempt at understanding it.

With Celestial, look at the combos of Smite to Haunt (ScH) and Retribution to Wither (RcW). RcW has a little over 50% more base damage potential than ScH. Interestingly, the might burst of each is identical. ScH is a melee tap combo, which is pretty easy to "master." RcW costs 50% more power and is a tap melee, tap range combo that takes a little more practice and has a greater chance of being interrupted. If you just cast Smite or Retribution without getting off the combos, you get the same single target might damage, but you've spent 50% more power for the latter. You've just wasted power. If you can get both combos off, RcW is going to be worth that extra power investment. Plague to Divine Light is even more vulnerable as a tap melee, tap ranged, hold melee. I get interrupted trying to pull that off in PvE much more often than I'd like. Plague in itself is meh.

I think that's what Cpt Liberty was trying to get across. The idea is that, if you can successfully combo with Celestial, Rage, or HL (once all the changes are made--see below) on a regular basis, you'll benefit from the increased efficiency, which means that you'll do more damage out per power in than the other powersets. If you can't keep up the combos, you'll lose that, and you'll actually fall behind. All you need to do to show this is run with Celestial or Rage on live right now and don't do any combos. Just play it like other powersets and clip weapon attacks with ability casts. Let me know how you do. My impression is that they are going to retool HL, given the removal of JC for DPS clipping, so that the precision damage is greater to again emphasize that risk vs. reward. HL will be able to top the charts, as it does now, but it will have to be because of successful combo timing and power efficiency, rather than the inefficient, rapid fire, JCing, button mashing that currently defines it.

Again, don't shoot the messenger. I'm just trying to explain why I think he said what he said.”