Earth needs Fixed NOW!(Proof included)

Discussion in 'War Room (Powers, Artifacts, & Builds)' started by AIpha, May 21, 2013.

  1. AIpha New Player

    sorry im not sure what I did but when I go back and redo it the wrath tank would need to take 20.5k damage to mitigate the same damage if blocking and has 25% absorption or 19.2k if blocking and has 50%. Mind you that means they are mitigating the same damage but also taking 3.6k damage if they have 25% or 2.4k if they have 50%. Sorry for the confusion I can't recreate my calcs from last night thanks for pointing that out.
  2. AIpha New Player

    You are right when we block we can get above 75% but only to a max effective mitigation if 87.5%. Like I have posted for that added mitigation to be equal to ice shields cycling we would need to take 130k damage.
  3. JEEBIE Steadfast Player

    Is it 87.5 or 90% now? With that blocking neck mod that's 7400 + raise cap to 80%. So you should hit 13264 defense which would put you at the cap. So you're at 80% mitigation, THEN the absorption applies right? So then you have 50% absorption for 90% total mitigation. 10% higher than Ice can go. So it's 10% mitigation compared to shields when talking about blocking mitigation.
  4. Pew New Player

    Real life examples are always a bit different then theory:

    A Paradox subboss does a triple swipe on me that hits for 3,6k in block (oneshots out of block, mix of full modded cr85/86/87 tank gear), total damage for a triple swipe: 10,8k.

    As ice my shields have a strength of 2,9k points. I can reflect every third triple swipe.
    Swipe #1: Reflect - Absorb 10k/800 damage in
    Swipe #2: Shield - Absorb 2,9k/7,9k damage in
    Swipe #2: Shield - Absorb 2,9k/7,9k damage in
    total damage in: 16,6k

    As earth tank:

    Swipe #1: Buff to 50% mitigation - 5,4k damage in
    Swipe #2: Buff to 50% mitigation - 5,4k damage in
    Swipe #3: Buff to 50% mitigation - 5,4k damage in
    total damage in: 16,2k

    Seemed pretty par to me. The only thing where ice really shines is when reflect can save you from your own mistake that would otherwise kill you.
  5. JEEBIE Steadfast Player

    IIRC reflection is the standard shield + 10k, so we would absorb the whole first triple swipe. Still though, I don't have 7.9 hp so hopefully I have some heals hitting between the actual swipes of the triple swipe attack =).
  6. AIpha New Player

    Ok
    but ice can put that mod in too so you misewell not even add it in. I'm about to post the spreadsheet as soon as I get a chance to upload it. It is 87.5 with no neck mod which should not even be added in here considering its an optional piece of content and should NEVER be used in balance.
  7. Pew New Player

    Yeah forgot about the extra on reflect, but it still shows that around that point of damage taken any more will favor the earth tank hugely (imagine a spaen of 4 adds on top of that) and any less damage taken than that will favor the icetank for his static absorption mechanic.
    It doesnt sound like people even have attempted the T5 raids, as i cant imagine that if you can beat it as ice you cant beat it as earth/fire. Maybe a wipe less here or there because of reflecting through a floor oneshot you forgot to dodge out of.
  8. AIpha New Player

    last I check you have more than 3shields correct?so you need to make one of those triple swipes 2.9k less factoring in another shield you have access to. That brings the 16.6 down to 13.5 and like jeeb said reflect would block the whole first set so that brings it down to12.7 compared to 16.2 not on par. No you don't have 7.9 health but the earth tank barely has the 5.4 because they had to put all Dom v mods in their gear. This also doesn't take into consideration that you have the ability to move around and dodge while the earth tank has to sit there and take it or risk getting oneshoted trying to dodge. Thanks for showing that we actually aren't on par though.
  9. Pew New Player

    You either are unable to or just wont listen. You obviously never tanked T5 as you would know that icetanks get oneshot once you go out of block, you cant do a shield midcombo of a boss or you get oneshot. You can't run around or you get oneshot.
    Please go and do the content before you cry wolf. You seem to have absolutely zero idea what you are talking about and plenty people in this thread are trying to enlighten you.
  10. Cream Corn New Player

    you also Should Keep In Mind That Our Shield Have A Cooldown Time. If We Use Them All We Are Left Defenseless For A Short Time. Earths Absorption Stays On For 12 Seconds Which Us More Than Enough Time To Try Getting It Refreshed.

    Ice Can Only Prevent As Much Damage As Our Shields Block.Earth Can Block 50% Of Every Attack After Defense Mitigation. If You Do The Math, The More Dmg Earth Takes The More Dmg They Mitigate Where Ice Can Only Prevent A Certain Amount.

    Every Power Has Pros And Cons. If You Can't See The Pros Of Your Power and Utilize Them Then You Are Not Good Enough At It. Don't Come Spitting Your Cr Or Skill Points As Validation For Your Skill Because All They Mean Is You Have Slot Of Time Invested In This Game. Stats Have Absolutely No Bearing On Skill Level.
    • Like x 2
  11. JEEBIE Steadfast Player

    It's pretty clear you're never going to be convinced of anything outside your own opinion. But, yes we have 3 shields (4 if you include HL), so you could double the absorption on the 2 non reflection swipes. BUT winter ward, shattered restraints and HL shield have longer reuse than reflection. I haven't done this boss but pew said you can do 1/3 reflection. So those 3 shields wouldn't' be up at the same rate, so we wouldn't be able to double shield or reflection each shield. Then there's the whole issue that shields don't stack, so you'd have to get out of block to hit the second shield. I'm going to continue to include the home turf neck mod.

    And why so much need for Dom? I know it increases your defense, but when blocking you're going to be capped, IMO I'd be setting up my char for blocking potential as in raids you need to block. In content where you don't need to block, well it's all really not an issue.
    • Like x 3
  12. AIpha New Player

    I'm confused here you are at the same mitigation while block or not so how does blocking not get you oneshoted if not blocking does?
  13. Owl Devoted Player

    Possible Pet Tanking changes:
    • Golem Blocking: Summoned Golem should Block when player blocks for more than 1 second
    • Damage Transfer: 25% of incoming damage should transfer to Golem upon Summoning
    • Damage Shift: Transfers additional 25% of incoming Damage to Summoned Golem for 10 seconds
    • Totem: Increase Healing amount and Range
    Possible Aftershock Tanking changes:
    • Aftershocks should be added to another power such as Epicenter for additional loadout options
    • Damage Absorption from Aftershocks should stack with Pet Damage Transfer
    • Damage Absorption from 2 Aftershock powers should stack
    Pet Tanking change example:
    • Summon Brick Golem would activate 25% Damage Absorption + 25% Damage Transfer
    • Damage Shift cast would transfer an additional 25% for a short time
    • 1000 point hit while Brick is active = 563
    • 1000 point hit while Brick is active after Damage Shift cast = 422
    Aftershock Tanking change example:
    • Jackhammer or Upheaval + Aftershock would activate 50% Damage Absorption
    • Jackhammer+Aftershock+Upheaval+Aftershock would activate 75% Damage Absorption
    • Brick+Jackhammer+Aftershock would activate 50% Damage Absorption+ 25% Transfer
    • 1000 point hit after Jackhammer Aftershock = 500
    • 1000 point hit after Jackhammer & Upheaval Aftershocks = 250
    • 1000 point hit after Brick & Jackhammer Aftershock = 375
  14. Ayaya New Player

    i thought alpha put me on ignore :rolleyes:

    don't listen to this alpha guy, ice and earth are basically the same while blocking (which tanks should be doing anyway). it's just pressing a button for an aftershock is too imbalanced for alpha.
  15. Pew New Player

    I am running 11700 defense non-block atm with the ice buff. Theoretically i should be sitting at the same mitigation in and out of block. But all we know on how the mitigation works is many many updates old.
    The reality of the situation is that i get ~double damage from the same attack unblocked vs blocked. Some attacks even hit me for untold thousands out of block and are just a few hundred in block.
    There seems to be some special handling of block in these T5 raids that works a lot like the PvP counter system with major mitigation values instead of immunities. This is just a guess though.
  16. BrotherMutant New Player

    I didn't think you could double stack your own shields. Is this true?

    Again, the difference for ice vs earth is for a heavy hitting single boss fight, Ice will kick ***. IF there are multiple trash mobs out there, Ice will crumple fast and Earth is pretty as you please tough as nails for the whole thing. We MUST rely on healers of course, but I put my money on Earth in big room fights.
  17. AIpha New Player

    Well that changes things everything that was oneshotting me for ridiculous amounts out of block in paradox were still hitting for ridiculous amounts when I was in block not reducing to 100s I i was attempting to dodge things like when he bends his back and does that forward cone one-shot. That would change things here but without knowing for certain there is no way to factor that into balance. I stand by omitting the home turf mod from the discussion and will not bend on that. Noone should be required to use those mods they are ment to be optional things yo increase potential and have no effect on the base balancing issues. Still though I definitely think earth hitting a power(not aftershoxking) should be equivalent to ice hitting a power. Earth as it stands right now Earth is the only yank power required to use certain powers yo reach max stats. Aftershocks should be an added bonus something that puts earth over their break even point like reflect does for ice.
    • Like x 1
  18. AIpha New Player

    I wasn't telling him to. Each one of his examples is swipe 1,swipe 2 is actually a series of three spies so each full example was 9swipes of 3.6k damage.
    Reflect could block three full swipes(swipe 1 in his example) with 2.1k to spare each of the 4 shields could block 2.9k of the next 3 3.6ks leaving 3 full 3.6k swipes through and 700 from the previous 3 shielded swipes for a total of 10.8k damage taken compared to the 16.2k taken by the earth tank.
  19. JEEBIE Steadfast Player

    I think we can all agree the fact that fire/ice takes the duration of a power use to max out their unblocked potential and earth takes basically twice as long, and that's not right. It's simply the idea that there is a balance issue in other aspect we disagree on.
  20. AIpha New Player

    I guess buy in pews example factoring in all the damage ice can shield vs the actual damage that earth can take ice still only took a total of 10.8k over 9 his while earth took a total of 16.2k. To me that looks imbalanced. Does that not look imbalanced to you?