Earth needs Fixed NOW!(Proof included)

Your right they don't stack but its the same mechanic.

You must be trolling. Try telling an electic healer that in order for their galvanize to heal for the same as Nature's Cross poll they need to hit another button or telling gadgets in order for their pot tick to be the same as mentals they need to hit another button, or tell that fire dps that in order for his inferno to do the same damage as ices bitter winds they need to hit another button. See how they would react. Like everyone has pointed out an imbalance is an imbalance no matter how minor it is. Besides thats not the point here anyway. The point is that Ice hitting a power is not equal to Earth hitting a power. Earth has to do "something" else to break even.

Both Styles offer 50% absorption

Put it this way:

Ice has 90% defense boost on power use + 4 shields

Fire has 60% damage boost + self heals(lol not really)

Earth has 25% abosorption + aftershock for 50 + 1 shield

Earth's initial power pop is not give the same amount of straight up damage reduction that the boosts that fire and ice can in that same time. Earth must carry specific moves to achieve maximum damage reduction but Fire and Ice can freely customize load outs. 50% absorption + gemstone(which can break before 100%) != 90% defense increase + shields. They are not even similar. Earth's micromanagement should mean better results not just remaining par.

Yes blocking makes our better but should you have to be dead weight? This is the only game where tanks are penalized for attacking.

We should get 50% flat when a power is cast. Aftershocks should be regulated to CC purposes. Pet should automatically absorb damage. Reinforce should apply an absorption buff in tank stance. Damage shift should become a breakout and take over the job of absorbing damage from an ally. Gemstone should be the only shield. Earth isn't about shields. Having reinforce give 10-25% more abosorption for 10-12 seconds on it's current cooldown would mean 60-75% absorption. Earth should always be taking damage but the amount of damage it reduces should be greater than ice or fire due to the lack of shields or self healing. This would put things on an even playing field.

If you don't see the imbalance, you probably never will. There is an imbalance though. It's not even ice vs earth. You can compare the imbalance with fire vs earth, but I don't want to. Fire needs a lil help too.

I can add in blocking but all it does is make you ask if having 81.25% mitigation(25% absorption and blocking) or 87.5% mitigation(50%absorption + blocking) is as good as having a 10k damage shield and 3 dom +resto shields. Is 6.25% more mitigation(25%absorption + blocking) or 12.5% more mitigation(50%+blocking) as good as Ice shields?

Answer only when you were to be hit with 269,824 damage or 134,912 damage respectively if the Ice tank had 1000 resto and 1288 dominance.

I think you can agree that even blocking as Earth doesn't quite cut it. I would rather have the shields instead of needing to take over 250k damage to mitigate the same amount of damage as Ice's shields.

all tanking is essential the same, you hit a power and hold block.
and
i think you are upset cuz ice is preferred for the new content
and perhaps you getting left on the sidelines

maybe remake your thread to "ice needs nerfed now!"

Just leave if that's your takeaway I can tell you haven't read a word I have written bcause I have said multiple times in this thread and others that I don't want Ice nerfed. No where in my initial post does it say nerf ice it only offers suggestions to bring Earth inline with Ice. I think you are upset because you can not grasp the high level balance conversations going on here. If you did you wouldn't make comments like you have been because all they show is your inability to grasp what the word "balanced" means.

Already did haha

i read that you think blocking shouldn't be required for tanking

i read earth only has 3 powers to aftershock

i read that hitting an extra button for aftershock is too hard

i read ice has 4 shields!!!!!!

i read ice doesn't need a lot of gear to reach the 75% defense cap

i'm an earth tank. i tanked nexus, it seems fine. you just crying about ice, maybe you can be like...ice need nerf, instead of 1.9 bonus, make it 1.7 bonus huhuhuhuhu

and irish play, transferring and absorbing is different...that's why they don't stack to gain 50%

I would have to disagree with that statement. Blocking is what makes Fire and Earth better than Ice in most cases. True, we Earth tanks do need some help. That 50% Dmg Abs for ANY power would be great, but I also think that going beyond 50% is a bit ridiculous. IF you want a better suggestion, why can't Unstoppable be switched to a Reflect type of move (next three attacks get bounced back to attacker). I would rather they do that than make Earth so OP.

I was noticing a significant difference when I switched back to earth before the dlc hit. I chalked it up to being rusty, but I was over geared so it didn't make a difference. When the DLC hit, I switched my US from earth to quantum (woot, bandwagon) and switched my EU toon to earth to tank, since I am the most comfortable and I wanted to help league mates. When I found out that you only needed a single aftershock to get your additional 50% dmgA up, I was ecstatic. When I finally got into the raid, I was surprised by it. My gear wasn't great, but I look at it now, I think it might have been the healers that did most of my work. I learned to know when to block, but trying to get my aftershocks up was the hardest part. You are EXTREMELY vulnerable when you try to hit your AS off and blocking. Where a fire or ice tank just needs to hit a power to refresh and back to blocking.

I get the feeling that they adjusted earth to not be as good as it was on release. Just like they adjusted the self heals too. The fact you had to work for your aftershocks (Power+3x) to get your full potential should not have required an adjustment in this way.

Alphas, I know we don't see eye to eye in the forums, but what you are asking for is warranted. Right now, earth seems to be at the most disadvantage for T5 when it used to have the biggest potential for it. Ice got a big tanking buff in it's update, fire's tanking seemed to have stayed the same, earth (I feel) got ninja nerfed.

Can you explain how the dmgA works now? I get the feeling it is either capped at 50% or it is consecutive. atk = 1000 dmgA 25% + 50% = 375 hit instead of 250. I know it isn't additive, as it requires you to block. Also, if it is consecutive, does it go in order of power -> AS?

So as an earth tank don't you think it is imbalanced to force certain moves on a load out? You are talking capabilities. All tanks can pass the end content. That is fact. The problem is that why should we have to work the hardest and be the best. I'm only calling for an equal playing field.

i do not think it is imbalanced to "force" certain moves on a load out.
is it imbalanced that a tank has to wear tank role gear instead of DPS gear to be an effective tank? no, that's why we wear tank gear. those darn DCUO devs forcing us tanks to wear tank gear
is it imbalanced that we have to use an aftershocking power to gain 50% absorb to be an effective tank? i don't think it is and i don't feel like we're being forced



i'll say again, earth has 2 ways of tanking. y'all may be like IT'S THE SAME MECHANIC GEEZ READ
but it is different. for one tree, you get to press damage shift with a pet to be effective and for the other tree you get to tap a button with an aftershocking power to be effective. we can put both ways of earth tanking on our bar and mix it up, but they won't stack. "50%" is the cap. one tree of earth may be better than the other tree for tanking...but we have the option to choose. i like aftershocking, so i put aftershock powers on my bar.


and what bumblingb said somewhere was gold. every enemy doesn't attack constantly, they all pause in between attacks. there is your window to press powers.

T

Because that's not enough still so we are equal to ice mitigation wise but they have 2 immunity powers that double as shields,one that's a shield and draws aoe aggro and juggles, and one that has a 10k damage cap. Gemshield and one more shield would not be enough. What if every aftershock gave 75% absorption up to a damage cap?

Exactly this isn't about can't beat nexus or anything about that and that is what the ayaya guy isn't seeing just because all tanks can beat something doesn't mean it's balanced. Just as a healer who they would rather heal in nexus ice or earth and im sure all would say ice.
Obviously at this point everyone is getting enough gear to do these raids but the problem will pop back up the next time new raids come out. Its not nor has this ever been about beating nexus, its about fixing an imbalance in an otherwise forgotten powerset and I think I have presented enough evidence that a change is needed.

All this post proves is I was right you have no clue what the word imbalance means. When EVERY tank is having to wear tank gear that's not an imbalance that's balance because it is the same for every tank. When 2 tanks have to hit any power to get their best buff and that buff is better than another tank hitting one power that is imbalance. You also don't seem to understand that 50% absorption is not the equivalent of ices 90% defense buff. 25% absorption is what is supposed to be balanced with the 90% defense buff and it isn't. The extra 25% from hitting jackhammer is supposed to be on par with fire cycling heals or ice cycling shields and I've presented evidence that that is not the case. The extra 25% is only making us on par with ices base buff.

So it's not that we have to hit an extra button its that hittingthat extra button is supposed to be like ice using shields or fire using heals not putting us on par with a shieldleas ice tank or a heals lacking fire tank.

If you can't understand this you never will but I want to make sure people reading this aren't taking you seriously.

Refer to

my post a few up from yours it address the actual numbers of blocking it it proves blocking is not quite as good as you think. I would gladly show that Earth Blocking must take over 250k damage to mitigate the same amount as ice cycling shields. Mind you that 250k is AFTER the 75% mitigation mac from blocking so in reality its more like 1 million raw damage. Blocking doesn't look so good now does it?

You gotta be doin that math wrong somehow. Let me look at my old notes on Earth and see what I come up with. Anyone reading this please post "typical" numbers for Health, Defense, Dominance and Resto as they all add to the heals/shields too. And make sure you are giving me Dominance numbers while IN TANK MODE so that I don't have to assume the doubling needs to take place.

Lastly, I do agree Earth needs some attention but I do NOT want to be an Earth tank that has 4 shields like Ice or self heals and extra Health like fire. The Absorption mechanic def needs to be tweeked and we could use one more cleanse/shield (reinforce?).

1 question about pet+damage shif tanking. Where we want to transfer damage, when the brick die in 1 shot?? Plus when we want call back brick, we always get interupted because the casting time is a bit long. Dev relly need to look in to this problem.

Sorry but the spreadsheet isnt showing the truth as an earlier poster wrote.
Earth is the only tank power that can go above 75% mitigation (80% blockmodded).
A blocking 50%mitigating earth tank with mod has an effective 90% mitigation, taking half the damage of an ice tank which is very well balanced.

Actually, I would have to agree on Ayaya here. Damage transfer is a little different from Damage absorption. The mechanic of reducing damage is the same. The difference is when that mechanic happens and how they stack.

You see, the priority goes like this: Dodge, then Defense, then Absorption, then Transfer then Health. When enemies attack, the system checks of whether it hits or not (dodge). If it does hit, mitigation from defense come into play. If it has a bypass, it ignores part of that defense, calculates for its new damage, then goes on to the next line of taking damage.

Does the player have a shield? If yes, then the shield takes a part or all of the damage. This is actually where absorption comes from. Since most shields use 100% damage absorption, they take full damage all the time. When an earth user uses a power, an aftershock or Gemstone Shield, they're technically casting a shield that absorbs only 25~50% incoming damage (or 50~100% damage in the case of Gemstone Shield), as opposed to the 100% that most shields take. Now the thing is, damage absorption does not stack. They overlap each other though, with the higher absorption getting priority. This means, if you've casted Jackhammer and then Hard Light Shield next, HLS will take the full damage first before Jackhammer will be able to mitigate damage.

Next is damage transfer. While Earth has the most well known transferring abilities through Damage Shift and Reinforce, other powers, namely Gadgets (Holographic Decoy) and Mental (Reflect Pain), have them too. Damage transfer works exactly like damage absorption. The key difference is that they stack with damage absorption (sans aftershocks). When a player with both a shield and a damage transfer ability gets hit by damage, the damage first goes to the shield, then part or all of it gets transferred to its target next. The only reason why damage transfer seems to not stack with damage absorption is because Damage Shift overrides Jackhammer and Upheaval's aftershock system. It will, however, stack with shields, including Gemstone.

Finally, once all those things happen, you take damage.