Just a few things to get off my chest regarding Stat Clamp and The state of the game for new players

That's nothing what she implied...

That's just a talking point that you want to make.

(Tax payers aren't making purchases... therefore not considered to be customers)

There are plenty of items and services you can purchase from a business as a customer that aren’t legally permissible to be sold again by the customer. Terrible logic by yourself.

A customer by definition is literally a person or organization that purchases a product or a service from a business.

So when I (a person) purchase a legendary subscription (a service) from DCUO which is owned by DayBreak (a business) that makes me a customer. By definition of the actual word.

Imagine using terribly inaccurate comparisons and faulty logic to try and convince people that a word doesn’t mean what it means when we all have access to the internet and the ability to use critical thinking.

At this point, you don’t need anyone’s help to make yourself look bad so by all means keep going.

So you went to all the trouble to Google, what I assume is "End User vs Customer", then you copied and pasted it, but you didn't read it? Really?

I mean it's there already twice lol, in a reply and in what you just posted, but I'll clarify it one more time.

- Customers purchase products and have the right, in every way imaginable, to do what they want with it. You can have a milk bath if you like. Or you can give the milk to someone else.

- End Users have extra restrictions put upon them by the Company selling the product in question. Usually because the End User never actually "owns" it in the first place. You cannot sell off your DCUO character or account to someone else. Period. You cannot trade for something ingame with anything other than currency that Daybreak/DI deem acceptable. It's why you can't openly shout that you'll give someone a PSN Card Code for "X Item" ingame.

The sky is blue. You just took an excerpt of Google telling you its blue and tried to use it to argue its Purple. Are you feeling OK?

Sorry I had to skip your post, read Post #203 for your answer

Actually neither are entirely right or wrong. What if I told you, you weren't a customer but were actually a "Revenue Generating Unit" lol, I kid, partly lol.

No but seriously you're right a "customer" is the person that actually purchases the product a customer can be an end-user and a customer, but an end-user doesn't necessarily have to be a 'customer' and quite commonly isn't.

If for example your parent purchased your subscription using their credit card then, your parent is the customer, you are not the customer. You are the end-user.

If your friend bought you some Daybreak cash, your friend is the customer, you're again, the end-user.

Technology companies just often refer to people interchangeably as "end-users", because capturing the end-users agreement if typically sufficient to prevent recourse. If for example something doesn't work in game and you as the "end user" have agreed to accept that it might not, you cannot make a complaint and because you cannot make a complaint neither can the customer, because you've agreed not to complain as the end user at all.

Post 203 was full of more faulty logic and just plain lies. As I already stated, there are plenty of items that aren’t legally permissible to be sold by a customer once they purchase it from a business. That determination has nothing to do with a person paying a business for a product or service and becoming a customer of that business.

You’re rambling nonsense at this point and making up fake conditions that need to be present in order for a person paying for a product or service to be considered a customer. It’s frightening that you’re so determined to showcase your lack of critical thinking on something as simple as the definition of a word.

I’m getting a tad bit concerned for you at this point. Maybe get a word a day calendar or something?

I wasn't complaining about anything... I was defending people's right to complain...

Dude I was simply just trying to say that they could do any change without telling us, at any time, that was the entire point. Not debating any friggin thing or looking for some kind of weird argument in which I was stating you were digging for.

I think everyone on this forum has sometimes complained about complainers just saying lol

Of course, the person using the product or service isn’t always the same person who purchased the product or service. It just usually is the same person in the majority of cases.

Regardless of the liability we take on as end-users, a person who purchases a product or service from DayBreak is a customer of DayBreak. To argue that fact is very concerning.

Oh I wasn't arguing the fact as you know, was just making the distinction. I think you're probably safe to say "usually" as anyone above the age of 18, playing this game is probably typically making their own purchases.

Still doesn't explain why you were literally complaining about people complaining, and trying to say I'm the one that looks bad here? Simply stating that people can complain all they want? Give me a break. You are trying way too hard.

I'm putting my foot into this, although with hesitation. When buying software, we're not buying a product, we're buying a license. The only product we purchase is the packaging, and the version of the software that may exist on the disc if one was included.

While Customer, and end user are accurate terms, one could also use the term client. Digital Ink, for our subscription money, provides access to a service. Some people pay nothing for that service, but others pay to have an enhanced service. The End User agreement, describes how the relationship between us and DI will be conducted. It is, very heavily weighted in favour of Digital Ink, which is standard for EUA. In fact, short of litigation, DI can pretty much do whatever it wants to, whenever it wants to. There have been some court cases that set precedents for how far companies can go, but they're few and far between, it's not settled law yet. Having said this, you're a customer during the transaction. I go to a kiosk on the Watchtower, I see an item, I purchase it. My time as a customer is now over. I'm now a client, and I've agreed to use this item I've purchased, only in ways that DI has said I can. Should I use it in a way that DI says I cannot, not only can they prevent my future access to the game, but they erase all items I have previously purchased.

The key thing here is, our behaviour and conduct within the game, and using it's services, is governed by the license. If I buy a car, it's my car, my product. There is no agreement. Ford doesn't care if I have a driver's license. Ford doesn't care if I don't want to obey the speed limits.

Hertz on the other hand will also provide me a car. But they will let me use that car only if I meet certain stipulations, I have insurance, I'm over 25 etc. Because after I paid my money, I became a client. They'll be nice to me, because they wish to repeat my interaction as a customer, but I am now a client, not a customer.

All to say that arguing he did just to prove that we can't voice our opinions on a game we might be passionate about because we aren't paying customers... Imagine

Yeah and I jump in and tell em to just let them complain, every time

Never got this much flak from it though LOL

Didn't read past the first line I'm afraid. If you want to have a mature discussion about things, the word mature is pretty crucial.

Here's something to keep you away from the keyboard for a while though. Considering for some inexplicable reason you were unable to scroll down to the bottom and click the "Terms Of Service" link, I'll provide it for you:

https://www.daybreakgames.com/terms-of-service?locale=en_US

Now keep in mind it gets a bit lawyer-jargon-y, considering it's Daybreaks official Legal Terms of Service, but take a quick gander anyway. Theres plenty of "As an End User" and "Daybreak encourages End Users" and "Your rights as an End User". Strangely zero customers though. Even mentions everything ingame too, including Virtual Currency and anything purchasable with it regarding "End Users".

Hell at this stage I wouldn't be shocked if this was the first time you found out you don't actually own your copy of DCUO lol. Anyway, prove me wrong, it's a challenge. Find the "Customer" amongst Daybreaks Official Legal Terms of Service. Also called the End User Licence Agreement, but I didn't want to rub that in too much. No long speech, no paragraphs, just a "I found customer it's at X". If you knew anything about how important how a companies Legal section is, if we're customers then it shouldn't be too hard to find, right?

Clearly isn’t secure in his opinion if he’s literally trying to change the definition of a word in order to try and desperately prove his point.

Too bad we’re not morons…

You don't. You have a license to use it, which can be taken away. If you were lucky enough to buy a hard copy, you own the packaging, and an unusable copy of the code at launch, but you don't own the game.

False.

If I said that, link it.

Otherwise the truth is that I just wasn't in the humour of letting the 1 billionth person who was wrong about their main point fall back to the "but I'm a paying customer" excuse. Complain about the clamp all day if it makes you happy, just don't reply to people with intentional false information, and then take it so badly when they call you out on the lie. I mean there's what, 3 threads about the clamp on the go at the moment? Filled with the same 10 people. Yet no Dev response or reaction. Someone asks about Nintendo Switch Server Mergers and it gets 2 responses.

Kind of telling.

Bingo