Test Discussion Artifact Reworks 2022

Discussion in 'Testing Feedback' started by Ranmaru, Jul 14, 2022.

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  1. Balistical Ice Loyal Player

    I know you were just giving an example but mindsets like that do exist in the game. Will a dps allow me to slot any artifact I want despite them losing damage? I form my own groups. You either run with me or you get kicked. I play the way I want lol
    • Like x 1
  2. hotsizz1e03 Committed Player



    I totally get that bro.. but Im not really arguing semantics per se but i'm making a case of pet eligibility if dmg alone is the criteria then brick is eligible for the artifact MATRIX effect by technicality.. Im arguing that YES BRICK is a combat pet is well, whatever Crystal can do, brick can DO MORE.. I totally get that CRYSTAL has a HIGHER dps than BRICK, but BRICK definitely does DMG, whether you want to quantify the difference between the two, it still classifies a battle pet..

    Your comparison is type flawed or erroneous. The only difference between jackhammer in tank role vs dps role is the stats from the gear. Jackhammer does not get buffed in dps role.. This is not the old days when certain powers give you dmg percent boost.. ALL powers are equally the same no matter what role you're in.. If i have dps gear and i switch to tank role, the dmg will be EQUIVALENT to dps role.. Tank role has nothing to do with JACKHAMMER.. That's a logical fallacy..

    AGAIN brick should be included in the MATRIX artifact.. 1. Being that pet builds are probably the least supported playstyle. This gives players an opportunity to make more variety pet builds. 2. MAXTRIX artifact had no REAL REASON to NOT include brick.. There is no logical answer besides saying oh, crystal does more dmg therefore no need to have brick benefit from the artifact.. It's silly.. It's not that crazy to have matrix include brick in its overworking mechanic.
  3. BumblingB I got better.

    You get a 10% damage increase being in DPS role.

    You are arguing semantics.

    The M.E.R.C.Y. Amazotron Matrix gives a new attack to Crystal. She doesn't do the same things. If Brick got the same thing, he would no longer be helping the tank. It would essentially be like if you were using Crystal as a tank.
  4. ItsSeven Level 30

    What? Rao, Bop, Claw IS the meta for the ‘real’ end game trolls, not your average standard elite players but I mean the ones who beat critical/elite plus consistently or compete for worlds first completions for those raids and survival mode. They run bop because it doesn’t CC adds so it doesn’t ruin the tanks CC rotation and it allows them to swap stuff like chains or parasites and have their full effect at the touch of a button/key and it allows them to swap clarion since bop opens up slots while also swapping all of the buff they have as well. At the highest level, it is the most expensive role in the game, but if you don’t want to swap it can be problematic for some groups as the only benefit you’ll provide is the ability to not stun adds which is a god send for tanks but you’d be better off running your standard buff troll setup.


    As for the artifact buffs, laz pit will trivialize survival mode for the really good tanks, especially with all of the other safety nets they have now among the safety nets from the group. These tanks don’t make many mistakes to begin with and 5 minutes goes by pretty fast in sm. A lot of the ones I know are bored of the role because it’s not very engaging, although that has to do with core gameplay issues more than allies/arts. Before someone says that they don’t have to use the arts or allies, the burden of making things hard that are supposed to be difficult shouldn’t fall on us. I actually don’t know what i would change about the artifact itself as I think tanking should be looked at instead, so maybe my feedback is moot.
    • Like x 1
  5. Controller Devoted Player

    You have some good points, even though my personal experiences are a bit different.

    I start running Elite content about 1-2 weeks into a new DLC dropping. I get bored with regular content fast.

    So as to not further deflect the thread from the Non-Controller Arts listed by Dev Ranmaru feel free to PM me.
  6. DeitySupreme Steadfast Player

    Just because you want to classify one way doesn’t make it so. Guardian and watcher can both deal damage too. Doesn’t mean they should be included. What exactly do you want brick to do when it has no power? Just stand there doing nothing? While jackhammer doesn’t do much damage it’s still there for it. If you cash offering with brick it does a heal to brick and restores its power to use another self heal. If it’s very low health it will do the encase heal. If you want a dps pet to go with mercy than use crystal. It’s why it’s there.

    As for why was it given the new attack, it’s because the new attack was designed for rsk. There was concern that it would make fury and crystal useless so to keep those 2 dps pets relevant they were given a buff while using the art. That’s all.
  7. lllStrichcodelll ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    Im a little confused about Omegahedron.

    Like others pointed out, theres currently a stacking debuff.

    Thats why i assumed it can also stack the buff.

    After reading the description carefully, i realized its not mentioned anywhere. So my question is, is the effect supposed to be stackable (both positive and negatve) ?
  8. Ranmaru Developer

    It is not intended to stack, the newer, stronger statline should have superior preformance in most regards.
    • Like x 2
  9. hotsizz1e03 Committed Player


    Idk why you keep mentioning that Crystal and Brick are different. I know the functions of brick and crystal. Of course they're different it doesn't matter if they're functions are different. Why cant brick also benefit from working harder as per MERCY artifact effect. It's silly to argue against that question because there isn't a rational reason NOT to include brick. That's like saying Source shard should only be for COMBAT pets. IT'S SILLY. Brick still contributes damage regardless..

    Brick is STILL A BATTLE or COMBAT(semantically or not) pet and thus benefits from source shard artifact. So the same logic should have applied to brick. regardless of which FORM is stronger.. That point isn't important.. It's a matter of the contributing dmg brick offers and buffing bricks contributing dmg the same way source shard artifact does.. SIMPLE.. There was NO REAL LOGICAL reason why brick couldn't be added in MERCY effect.. It will only segregate the PET with ARTS.. So now only dps role pets are important?? What kind of message is that sending?
  10. hotsizz1e03 Committed Player


    Of course they're different it doesn't matter if they're functions are different. Why cant brick also benefit from working harder as per MERCY artifact effect... It's silly to argue against that question because there isn't a rational reason NOT to include brick. That's like saying Source shard should only be for COMBAT pets. IT'S SILLY. Brick still contributes damage regardless..

    Brick is STILL A BATTLE or COMBAT(semantically or not) pet and thus benefits from source shard artifact. So the same logic should have applied to brick. regardless of which FORM is stronger.. That point isn't important.. It's a matter of the contributing dmg brick offers and buffing bricks contributing dmg the same way source shard artifact does.. SIMPLE.. There was NO REAL LOGICAL reason why brick couldn't be added in MERCY effect.. It will only segregate the PET with ARTS.. So now only dps role pets are important?? What kind of message is that sending?
  11. BumblingB I got better.

    This is my last reply. As obviously you wont listen to why, even though it is said plainly as possible.

    BRICK WAS NOT DESIGNED AS AN ATTACKING PET!
    CRYSTAL WAS DESIGNED AS AN ATTACKING PET!

    When you hit Fortify Golem, Brick gets a heal and power, which allows him to taunt, shield, and other tank related elements. His damage is trivial.
    When you hit Fortify Golem, Crystal gets power and and she does her Striking Stones attack. Which is a BIG hit.
    When you hit M.E.R.C.Y.'s Attack Protocol, Crystal gets two new attacks that replace her Striking Stones. One scans to see if it's single target or multi targets. Then does a beam or explosion based on the scan, which is the BIG hit.

    Based on what I just said, IF Brick was "overtasked" as you keep saying from the flavor text on the Artifact, he would no longer be a Tank pet and would lose ALL his role based elements and would now have a scan beam and big hit.

    I'm done, this is way off topic at this point. Good day and I hope you do well.
    • Like x 1
  12. hotsizz1e03 Committed Player



    Broo.. you keep explaining the same things over and over.. All im asking you is to explain why it CANNOT benefit from MERCY art the same way SOURCE shard artifact does.. It makes no sense.. If it was NOT designed to do DMG or to ATTK then why does it?? IT makes NO SENSE what youre saying..

    Youre again explaining the differences between BRICK AND CRYSTAL which i UNDERSTAND the differences between the 2 pets for the last TIME.. We both can agree that BOTH PETS do DMG fundamentally regardless of ROLE..

    If source shard boost BRICKS attack then MERCY shouldve been able to AS WELL.. final point
  13. TheLorax 15000 Post Club

    They've explained the difference between the two artifacts multiple times. MERCY was designed specifically for Robot Sidekick for pet build players that are not Earth or Sorcery. They added a buff to Crystal and Fury so Earth and Sorcery DPS players won't feel left out if they choose to use it. MERCY was not designed for all pets, just Robot Sidekick.
    • Like x 1
  14. L T Devoted Player

    When the artifact was first developed several folks made the suggestion that it would be more appealing if it were a multi-role artifact that benefited Tanks by buffing brick and healers by buffing Watcher or Guardian. The developer's reply was that they wanted this artifact to be DPS only. That's the answer that you're not really hearing here. It could, but the developers decided not to, and that's the end of the story really.

    Mercy is neither underperforming, nor really is it part of the artifacts that the Devs are looking for feedback on. This is the wrong thread to be discussing changes to it.
    • Like x 3
  15. Rejchadar Inquisitor


    1. Shard buffs any and every attack of any pet, M.E.R.C.Y. replaces one of the attacks of the robot, crystal and fury.
    2. Shard affects the damage of pets but does not change its behavior and purpose, the M.E.R.C.Y changes the behavior of pets (it forcibly initiates two new attacks (a small one that determines the number of targets and after that a large one (depending on the result of the first one, either an AoE attack or an attack on a single target (these are two different attacks)).

    If the M.E.R.C.Y interacted with the Brick in the same way as with the three pets mentioned above, this would drastically change the behavior and purpose of the Brick (for example, the Brick would stop using power to heal, since the M.E.R.C.Y forces to use an attack skill forcibly ... the Brick would stop using taunt -M.E.R.C.Y replaces the pet's skills with others ...) ...
    • Like x 1
  16. Ranmaru Developer

    While I appreciate the conversation about the MAM, that is not the primary discussion point of the thread, I'll offer only this minimal insight onto why the artifact functions the way it does.

    I drew a line when designing the artifact that it would only work with pets whos function existed in the DPS role, had only 1-2 attacks and had and ability to grant power to the pet, this meant I was excluding any role pet (Brick,Watcher,Sorc tank pet) & the Gadgets pet (Due to its several different Power interactions.).

    The Reason this decision was made was purely an action of time efficiency, If I were to expand the functionality to these pets I would of had to spend time designing what exactly they would do, "Should it be good for healers? Should it be good for tanks? If it was good for healers what would it do? Should there be a unique attack for each of the Turrets interactions, etc" Realizing that this would of been a design rabbit hole that would of added several weeks to the design & balance timeline I decided to cut the investigation at that point.

    So once I had landed back at the 3 effected pets we could move forward with the design and balance of that specific subset.

    I hope this spreads light on why those pets were not included in the MAM functionality, and apologize that it does not perfectly work in a way that you were expecting but, as always I appreciate the feedback and look forward to further discussion.
    • Like x 4
  17. hotsizz1e03 Committed Player



    OK i can appreciate the context of this answer, besides telling me, that im arguing semantics lol. Thank you.


    Thank you i can appreciate this reply... I now have a clearer understanding... I wasn't around on the forums when everyone had MAM on test so i didn't know what the decision making by the devs were back then, but i am now caught up.. Thank you for those who took the time out to respond..

    ALL i ask is make sure that support role pets aren't left out when designing pet artifacts that alienate Support role pets.. There are alot of artifacts that support DPS role pets, all im pointing out is that there aren't any artifacts that gives support to SUPPORT ROLE PETS and i was hoping that MERCY didn't alienate Support role pets(which it did) but i understand why it was designed this way i guess. I guess we shall see what the devs innovate as artifacts for Support role pets especially in terms of pets battling/healing/CC in support roles as well..
  18. Ranmaru Developer

    I appreciate the reply and when it comes to support pets (or just using pets in a supportive manner) I feel like that Niche has not been understood by artifacts at all, IF there were to be artifacts for support pet playstyle it would probably be its own series of 3 artifacts focused around that, but that would take place over several episodes as when designing a support/tank artifact I generally also design a DPS focused one.
    • Like x 4
  19. DeitySupreme Steadfast Player

    Been playing around with the demon fang and it seems to still struggle behind other arts. The standard build I used was trans/strat/quislet to set a baseline parser. This being with the standardized sp distribution of max prec with rest into might. I then respecced in order to put point into resto instead of night and switched my arts from trans strat quislet to trans clarion and demon fang. The overall DPS went down by about 50k dps. Obviously strat shines in aoe so I then swapped clarion out to start. And the damage went up by not to where he base line was. I then switched to clarion over demon fang and damage stayed around the same. Below will be average parsers.

    Trans/strat/quislet: 161k
    Trans/clarion/demon: 115k
    Trans/strat/demon: 142k
    Trans/strat/clarion: 141k

    The numbers with demon fang and clarion were after respeccing a second time to split left if we sp between resto and might. Going pure resto after prec actually lowered the damage. I think the biggest issue holding back demon fang is that it can no crit. I tested it out for a while and could get a single tick if it to crit.

    Demon fang begs to be in a build around arts that give retro and prec. The main to arts are trans and clarion. Clarion has a some synergy with the shield buffing it further. But because demon fang can not crit it doesn’t really mesh well with trans. The ticks from demon fang aren’t that high either so I don’t think this would break the art.
    • Like x 3
  20. DeitySupreme Steadfast Player

    Finished trying out the gem of horus. It’s still in a below average state. Tried a few combinations and the best set was using trans/strat/horus. Was getting 161k average.

    The thing holding horus back is the convoluted nature of the artifact.
    3-8 you get base damage plus a bleed
    9-17 you get 2x base damage with no bleed. (3x base damage of done to target with bleed)
    17+ you get same effect as 3-8

    Using brawling you can start the fight and start the bleed.
    Then you use a different ability and go back to talon strike the next rotation to get the 3x damage

    However from there the rotation gets clunky. You just used talon which has a 3sec cooldown. So you have to use a different ability which means that by the next rotation you hit for 2x damage since there’s no bleed and your second ability doesn’t cause bleed. So instead of going back into talon strike you than have to use a 3rd clipping ability followed by talon strike. So rotations look like this:

    Tray ability 1 is an ability to clip weapon with
    Tray ability 2 weapon buff
    TS = talon strike
    Tray ability 4 is an ability to clip weapon with
    WC = weapon combo
    / = clip with

    1/2 > WC/TS (sets bleed) > WC/4 > WC/TS (3x damage) > WC/1 > WC/4 >WC/TS (sets bleed) > WC/4 > WC/TS (3x damage)

    That is a more complex rotation for basically the same damage. On top of that, my sp on test server are lower than on live. With less SP I only have 94 sp into might. Talon scales with prec so with prec maxed it’s hitting for it’s max values. Other abilities being used to clip weapon combos with end up doing scaling less yet end ups it’s virtually the same DPS. With more SP you get more might so those abilities start to pull out ahead of talon strike which will put those above horus even more
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