Source Wall Raid Ain't That Difficult...or is it?

Discussion in 'Gotham City (General Gameplay)' started by Essential Exobyte, May 22, 2022.

  1. Essential Exobyte Dedicated Player

    Here goes a bit of a rant...

    Since this episode launched, everyone had previous dlc gear and blah blah blah. Well, now players are more geared up and every time I run this (puggin it) it keeps getting worse and worse. Wipe after wipe as if ppl cant figure out basic mechanics. First time i ran this we maybe wiped once and then beat it no probs. I ran it today and took 50 minutes to beat and a bunch of useless players. (thats what pug groups get, i know).

    So, whats the problem? I dont know...ive seen high 377cr+ players be dying like a fly to a blue light...Zapp! I see many players with no white mods, level 19 arts, non-leveled augs, rainbow augs, dare i look at their skill points. How are they useful if they only have the combat rating to enter the content? they arent.

    Players not be following the mechanics, standing in all the aoe's, getting too close to the boss(es), not doing pickups, not blocking the one-shot that kills all, etc. I get that this happens and is part of the game and all, but seriously though??? This is the last time i play this raid as it seems noone else has the capability to even block or see they are standing in a damaging field.

    You wondering if im talking about eleet or something, nah, reg difficulty. This game allows too many ill-equipped toons to advance to endgame content and virtually make it impossible to sanely play the content. I miss back in the day to where it was your gear and your skill points and thats all you had to worry about. Today though, you got useless skill points, allies, head stuff, generator stuff, origin stuff, white mod stuff, op stuff, league hall stuff, focus and loadout stuff, art stuff, its crazy!! This progression system is terrible and it really effects actual endgame players who want to pug stuff knowing they have similar stat players queueing in too, not useless players who just skipped cr and got 85sp and nothing else.

    All im gonna do is play the seasonal and get some weird looking ears for my toon. Its not like they had to nerf this inside seasonal as apparently its too difficult to lure the boss over to a mechanic so you can damage him...oh who am i kidding. I expect too much from players.

    Im done with this episode. Peace out.
    • Like x 3
  2. Sleepy Healer Steadfast Player

    Why not event it up instead of throwing in the towel
    • Like x 5
  3. 9001BPM Steadfast Player

    Use LFG and you will mostly get players who are at least properly kitted out. They’ll still be clueless about mechanics though.
    • Like x 1
  4. FlawlessTime Dedicated Player

    I've ran across many cr skippers who got to end game and also a bunch of new players who don't know there roles and or mechanics. I've seen there low arts and augs and rainbow augs. I try to teach and explain to as many as I can and a lot are willing to listen. But I would say don't give up and if you can bring a friend or two with you who can play a support role just in case you run into trouble.

    I've seen healers who can't heal trolls who can't troll and tanks who can tank a boss but miss all and any adds lol lol. So yeah bring a friend who can support if possible.
  5. DeitySupreme Steadfast Player

    How is profession terrible?

    You complain that you can’t beat content because players don’t follow mechanics then complain that progression is terrible? One doesn’t have anything to do with the other. Even if all you had to worry about was gear and nothing else, those same players would still not be following mechanics. You can be a good player with less stuff and be a bad player with maxed stuff. One is not tied to the other. You can play any single game across any number of platforms and it will always be the same. Follow mechanics and your chance to succeed increases. Ignore mechanics and chance to succeed decreases. Are you new to gaming?

    Progression helps amplify your skill. Nothing more nothing less. If you’re a good player than the more you increase your stats the better you’ll do. The worse of a player you are the less it amplifies you because you don’t have the skills to utilize the progression you do. Isn’t that how it should be?
    • Like x 3
  6. Stanktonia Dedicated Player

    This game needs a legitimate tutorial system, it’s long overdue
    • Like x 3
  7. Lt Skymaster Dedicated Player

    I mean, I personally don't think you need artifacts at all to do regular as long as you do what you're supposed to do with your role.

    Issue is people now just want to pew pew and no mechanics. I've healed it both with toons with arts and toons without it, obviously when people die for them being dumb they blame whatever they can if someone is a little low leveled they will blame them no matter what.

    I've seen tanks getting killed in the first boss even though they're geared and with artifacts and all why? because they just facetank it and don't luge or kite anything. I've done the same bosses with my tank that has 200 sp and 0 artifacts and cr 360 and I manage it without an issue because I know how to tank.

    So the main issue is people not knowing how to do mechanics, this been an underlying issue for the past howevermany years, reason why event versions exist. The only way those players can get better is if you stop and explain kindly what's happening and how can they do better. If the issue persists then the kick button exists.

    Furthermore like other people have said it your other option is LFG.

    edit:
    Forgot to mention in terms of difficulty really, nowadays regular feels like an event, and elite feels like the old norm for normal. But that's when you have people that can play the game.
    Elite+ and all feels more like the first elites and a bit more.
    • Like x 2
  8. TheLorax 15000 Post Club

    I've been using LFG for the raid with very little difficulty but I have noticed a surplus of CR skippers in the duo and alert. There's too many players running around end game that have zero idea of what's going on or what they should be doing. And before anyone says "well maybe you should help them", for one I try but they want to act like
    [IMG]
    and second, teaching people how to play the game or how to play their role when you're mid combat should not be the set standard in an end game instance.
    • Like x 3
  9. Mysticwarriormj Well-Known Player

    The braniac tutorial is fine for base gameplay. What they need is a tutorial at level 10 for role and at level 30 for alert and raid mechanics (considering you can't really queue for much at level 10).
    • Like x 2
  10. myandria Item Storage

    Agreed; I have seen more CR skippers for the Duo/Alert as well for blind queuing, more than the previous episodes and most of them need to learn their roles/basic game mechanics first. However, it can be entertaining to watch a fresh CR skipped character plant a garden of face-plants in the Event version of the Duo.

    I think that not having a solo instance is part of the reason why we are seeing more of this issue. I also agree with you about "helping" players with CR skipped characters in end game content; how can you help them learn the basics of the game/character/role when there are end-game mechanics going on that need to be learned?
    • Like x 1
  11. Tiffany6223 Loyal Player

    A few of my league mates and one other from a league we are friendly with qued up for this raid last night. Sadly there weren't enough of us to fill all of the slots so we had to rely on pugs. Long story short, after 2 1/2 hours and several different pug players revolving in & out..., gah, we finally beat it. I have played this raid with all slots filled by my league mates and at most it takes maybe 30 mins + to complete because we know the mechanics. We know what to do. When playing with people who have never played this raid or have only played it maybe in Event mode only before, there is a learning curve that has to be expected.

    The problem arises like it did last night, that the more experienced players lost patience with the inexperienced causing the inexperienced to become dejected and quit. New player(s) join, they have to be instructed to the mechanics and we repeat the process until they either learn or rage quit.

    This raid is a difficult only as the players make it. I haven't tried it in Elite yet, I only have all purple gear, but I suspect the same to be true there as well. If you go into any raid already knowing how it works it will make everything go smoothly. Having to learn the mechanics as you play is what drags a raid out. Having patience with new to the raid players is important. There are players who have never played the Reg/Elite version of this before or have only ever played the Event version where the mechanics are watered down so they have no concept of nuances of game play. Patience with them is needed.

    If you want a quick run of this raid, go in with people you know who have already experienced it, otherwise just be prepared for a grueling time. Just know what you are getting into.
    • Like x 1
  12. TheLorax 15000 Post Club

    Oh man we need another 'Scarlet Speedster' type deal to gate these new people for a bit just until they figure themselves out.
    • Like x 4
  13. spikeat Well-Known Player

    The CR skippers are coming in droves and it's going to get worst after the release of each episode. We can't be expected to mentor every player we play with every time we log in. This has been an ongoing issue that the devs haven't addressed. To them money is money, whether it comes from a veteran or a new player.

    The regular raid itself is not difficult but a lot time like any other raids, it's the players in the group that can increase the difficulty level. That's why we have been seeing so many threads asking to further reduce the difficultly level which won't solve the issue. They need to figure out how to raise the skill level of all the new incoming players.

    This is true. The event and regular version of the raid doesn't feel much different aside from one or two mechanics that can wipe the group. Players are still standing in enemies aoe, planet strike, eruptions etc without dying and the healer just heals them through it. Elite is the only level that feels like the regular of the past (before elite existed).

    Just like PVP, I believe Elite content will be the next to phase out, maybe not soon but it's trending towards that direction.
  14. Proxystar #Perception

    I'm curious when you say this, because what exactly is "the old norm for normal", what raid are you bench marking the "old normal" as, because I honestly don't think any normal content has been as hard as any elite raid ever, since probably Nexus and Paradox, so what exactly is this "old normal"? Just legitimately wondering.

    Also at the start of this DLC there were issues with the event mode spikeat, which have largely been alleviated, previous to this DLC most event modes have been super easy, but they are still quite demonstrably different from the normal versions, I've got numerous alts I run through events, just for marks so I see the differences in difficulty levels quite extensively.

    Doubling back to this specific raid (source wall) the difference between event and normal is also objectively demonstrable, in the event version the mechanics don't really one shot you, not only can you stand in them like you say, you don't even need a healer, you also don't even really to block the eye beam anymore (as it should be for the event, it's super casual).

    In normal however, you are going to need to have a healer, so its very different, again there hasn't been a "normal" piece of content remotely like elite or even this elite raid since arguably Paradox and even then that was only if chose to do EO.

    So yeah I don't know, exactly what "normal" you're talking about.
    • Like x 1
  15. VariableFire Loyal Player

    Not sure how much of a help a role tutorial will help players when a bunch of mechanics simply ignore "the rules." Use R2 to break out? Oh no, press the action button and hope for the best. Taunt the boss to protect the team? Scripted attack override! Block and shield to survive the hit? Piercing attack! If anything, a role tutorial might give players the wrong impression.

    That's not even restricted to raids, it's in the 4mans constantly too.
    • Like x 4
  16. Proxystar #Perception

    This is very much true, you've also got slight variables in roles, fire tanks for example benefiting more from restoration, other tank classes wanting more dominance first health second and others health first, dominance second.

    The difference between a buff controller or a pure power controller.

    It's got to the point where any attempt at a tutorial simply becomes horribly inefficient or on the flip-side horribly convoluted that it also turns out inefficient.

    What needs to be said in 5 minutes can no longer be said and if you take an hour to say it, too much is lost in the detail.

    Notwithstanding that fact elements of the community are so toxic any attempt at a player produced tutorial ends up flawed for the above reasons or not attempted at all out of fear of belittlement or abuse, oh the world we live in :D
    • Like x 2
  17. Cyclonic Dedicated Player

    Ranting about regular? People experienced with the raid are probably blaring music and talking on the phone while cooking a mean porkchop. It's literally pew pew, block the laser, get near the green guy and press circle on your dude with the symbol. If you die from anything else... the healer is lazy. Blame that guy.
  18. spikeat Well-Known Player

    I was speaking in a general sense that elite is the only instance similar to the past norm where we had to pay attention to all the mechanics. I don't recall how we got to this stage in reg where we can disregard numerous mechanics and still easily complete it.

    I started out playing the elite and reg version of the raid and only recently started playing event on a few of my alts. It's true that the reg version needs a healer but that's typically standard. Other than that while I dps, I didn't notice much difficulty between event and reg. In reg there are 2 spots where I can see groups wiping and that's the green huddle and perpetua's eye beam. It only wants you to complete 2 mechanic to prevent the group from wiping which to me isn't asking much. But there is always a new player player when I blind queue so it just take an extra 15-20 min to complete if they are willing to listen. I just give the boot to repeat offenders.
    • Like x 1
  19. OneWhoLaughed Committed Player

    Almost every single time, If I go in via On Duty or LFG, I write 'please block white arrow,' the second I load in.

    It's crazy how often that gets ignored. I think the problem though, lies with the first boss (source titans). They do a white arrow attack that doesn't one-shot. After that boss, people assume 'oh it's not that bad, that guy was over-reacting.'

    If we die because of the Rebuked Isolation mechanic, I will explain it, but that has become more rare now that the content has been out for a month. It still happens, and last night one player with the green decided to run far away from the group. Literally got the green, panic kicks in, group goes down.
    • Like x 2
  20. Valka Lynx Dedicated Player

    I run this raid 8 times a week, on eight different characters. Regular only.
    Sometimes we beat it in 20 minutes, sometimes it takes 1,5 hours. Gotta love random queues. :D


    I usually tell people to do that when we get to last boss. It still gets ignored more often than not, tho. :rolleyes:


    Happens every now and then. When confronted and explained, one person even said he thought it was harmful and that's why he was rolling away from everybody. Yeah, sure, the big text on screen tells you to get together for a group hug, but y'know, social distance and all :cool: