SERIOUS problem with elite content in this game

U say all that all the time, i stand by my points and nothing you offered counters them.
Also, im not meaning you or anyone specifically, i mean all this in general.
If the so called “elite” players want a challenege, they can come off their pedestal and out of their premade groups and run content with everyone else.
Elite is now a challenge, if thats really what y’all wantthen thats how u do it.
(Your welcome)
Now, i speculate you dont actually want to come down from the heavens an run with normal people therefore your asking for content (that is plenty challenging as evidenced by the vast vast majority that cant complete it) to be more challenging is not actually what you want otherwise y’all would come down and mingle with the common folks.
The question then becomes, what do you actually want? Its not good enough that only a small % of players can complete it.
You want it harder? How hard is hard enough?
Not one of u wants it too hard for you personally to complete so name the player. Drawl the line in the sand.
As i said, its alot to ask to want us to want to get better when your in premade groups and dont let us run the content to teach us. Counterproductive is the term.
Till u or anyone can drawl the line in the sand, asking for it to be harder is a hollow argument if u ask me.
I know the mechanics, run all the raids etc and i can tell ya from expereince that if u come off the pedestal and shout for a group and start teaching people you will find the content plenty hard.
No content in the game needs to be a challenge for the best 8 players in the game. If u think so, then your a fool. No one is so self Absorbed and entitled as to think so really are they?
Thats why i ask someone to drawl the line in the sand, otherwise take your request to its logical conclusion which is make it hard enough only the best 8 in a group together can clear it, otherwise its too easy for them and then they can make the same hollow argument that you “elitists” are currently making.

So dcuo being a mmo like any other has a different auddience? Na i dont agree.. especially since i played dc since 2011 and the game did very well while the content was very difficult despite that people had no experience.

If dcuo attempts to regain,retain its players it MUST have high difficulty Elite raids.

The fact that all Top 3 voted episodes in the episode bracket list having above average difficulty on elite raids and the most voted episode origin crisis winning the bracket list shows what a good chunk of the community wants. Btw if endgame players quit others will follow its a domino effect the flashpoint episode showed this pretty well imo.

Im not your babysitter grow up its not my or anyone responsibility to show you how to play a videgame,anything i said does counter your attemps to talk down on elite players i have the impression that you are simply jealous.

Also im good enough at the game and not part of top endgame leagues i play with players below that and im not part of the top groups and choose to play with players that are good but not crazy good so stop assuming random things because a elite player put you in a corner ingame or kiked you for being bad at the game.

You can cry all you want the complaints about this topic is rising and rising deal with them facts,and get good as mepps would say.

What evidence is there that elite currently is not difficult enough?
I’d wager that the completion % would make the case that its planty hard enough. Especially if u factor out speed hackers and cheese/glitches/exploits
I bet its not even double digit % that are completing it.

I just randomly queued up Family Reunion Elite and it was fairly easy. It's easier right now compared to when it was relevant. I haven't ran this alert in years and as I got further in the instance I remembered why I stopped running it. It was the duration of this alert, which was as long as a raid. So it will be a hard pass for me on Family Reunion while I wait for the WW alert.

The problem is the skill level of the majority of player base is low and the content keeps getting easier. I've seen many players new and old who knows the mechanics on paper but when it time to execute them in elite content, that's where they fail and give up. A majority of players uses to the queue to play and most of them are RPG players, that's why we see so many players with rainbow augs/arts. They are customizing their own stat requirements as they see fit and since the content is easy, they are able to progress throughout the game. When we offer suggestions, they would get offended or ignore us because they have been getting through the content with their current setup or been carried. I see a lot of Elite content threads but they never gain any traction because not a lot of players run them and can't relate.

The DEVS are catering towards the majority of the player base because that's where most of their revenue is drawn from. Look at how many times PZR was nerfed to align with the current average skill base of players. I asked for a visual fix for avatar of meta elite battle and they decided to nerf it. The big draw of this game is the abundances styling of the toons and not so much the content.

Re-read, i dont have an issue running elite, im one that helps others even tho most “elite” players stay in their groups and dont venture out to see what the content is really like for most

Wow, why the attitude?

Rose color glasses come to mind when I read your post.

I do have to ask, are all your augments 302? Artifacts 200? Do you have 300+ skill points? If so, there is also a difficulty gap between then and now. When OC came out, a player having 100 SP was actually very rare. We didn't have any augments, level of skill points, etc. (Also the SP system was different with a lot of wasted points in weapons you didn't need or want.)

If you have max gear, max augments and artifacts, a significant number of skill points, a premade well established group, x8, elite content is nothing.

There was a shift from how they go into a new DLC as opposed to how it used to be before replay badges were added. It used to be gear up for the raid, now is replay to max vendor and smash the new DLC. That's the difference. We aren't getting that back and it's foolish to think that will change. They are selling a product, as plain and simple.

Those other games can provide that, because they are doing it differently. Forgive me, I don't know all the games, but I don't believe they have a replay option on content. Lock out or diminishing returns on rewards is how they do it. So they can work differently.

First indicator that elite raids are easy ,example elite raids are being completed within hours of their release.

Second, we are able to complete them with previous episode stats/gear.

Third,the content is designed so dps centric that it makes the content much easyier to complete in the current situation Precision and might single target alongside a buff troller is broken good which is part of the reason why its so easy for elite groups it is the devs job to balance/adjust these things and design elite raid content thats more support roll based 2 tanks,more support rolls either no or limited damage check designs.

Most of the content in a episode is made for average players im fine with that but if we cant even have high difficulty elite raids then this is simply not acceptable, elite solo and alert can be easyier so average players can spamm them im fine with that.

Re-read, i have no issue with the content. I find it all rather easy. But thats because i learn an know the mechanics etc. the difference is, i am not so arrogant as to claim its too easy. Just because its easy to me does not mean its objectivly too easy an therefore needs to be harder. Only the “pedestal elitist” are arrogant enough to think that way.
Thats the difference, i see how many struggle. Step out of your circle and you’d see too.
Its not my or anyone else's fault u stack a group of the best players an learn the mechanics fast an then can clear it quickly. You “elitists” do that to yourselves.
Offer actual/objective evidence that its too easy and i will be on ur side.
I want to be because i’d like it harder too for me but im not so selfish, i recognize that most cant complete it an that by definition kind ameans its hard enough as is.
Evidence or you will continue to be disapointed

I have to disagree, raids should be the penultimate challenge in this game (any MMO for that matter) and it's quite concerning that everyone has access to them and can complete them with ease. When I look at raids in MMOs, I'm looking at strategy, challenge and teamwork. Right now, none of the relevant raids (or past ones) offer or require any of this. Now yes, Elite should be the ultimate test of skills, teamwork and strategy, encounters should not only be harder but more challenging and require more understanding of the mechanics. People "cheese" elite for the same reason people spam FOS3, efficiency. The vast majority of the player base should struggle with Elite, that's the point. Elite hasn't offered a challenge in a long time, the reason why it's more difficult at the moment is because of the stat clamp, a lot of the old raids are sort of out of tune.

One of the many reasons why this game has a big problem with player retention is the lackluster endgame content. The endgame content (elite raid, normal raids, alerts, etc.) offer virtually no challenge, this is just aggravated by the grinding systems put in place in order to pad the terrible endgame content, which seems to be their solution to player retention. Players feel entitled to have access to everything but then when they do get access to everything and realize that it's just fluff, boring content, they leave. So what can we do here?

1) completed by whom? Your specisl elitist premade groups? Thats evidence of nothing except that teamwork works (which it does and ritefully so).
2) stat difference isint big enough to matter in the way u want it to. Its how the game is designed. Sorry but a couple thousand might on a dps for example aint big enough difference to be able to “prevent” a raid from being completed.
3) there we can agree. I miss the days where u needed 1-2 tanks, 2 heals, 2 trolls.
Those were the good ol’ days and i would love them to design raids with this in mind. Thats a raid design thing tho not an “elite isint hard enough” thing

Evidence for what exactly? Are you that much out of arguments to ask for evidence?

There a video out there where people 4 man complete one of the flashpoint (flashtastic voyage) elite raid with barely episode stats 4 man you get it? Like 4 players. And if 8 players cant defeat it it shows how large the gap between skilled player vs players that arent skilled at the game are and that wanna come here and talk about Elite raids.

Yes it is expected for most average people to struggle in a Elite raid wake up its elite.

I've had this conversation many times in the past. Elite content should not offer more rewards than normal otherwise it gates, but that's my view. To be honest, I think having the old hard raid easy raid system before Elite came out was a better option. Same rewards, but there were a place to go. Elite content is really just throw as many mechanics with higher attack and health enemies as one can fit into an instance.

Really, you want ultimate, advocating to have Survival Mode be a regular thing. The problem is, the devs need to sell a product and SM only sells to the ultimate players. Which is the vocal minority of the game.

I would argue that player retention is related to far more than just end game being too easy. To be honest, the pay walls for artifacts, time capsules, and the like is far more detrimental.

What was the DLC that won the hearts of that 10th Anniversary bracket contest? OC. What was the DLC that they had to adjust heavily after launch because it gated and turned players away? OC.

I think what we can take from that is that, yes, players like a challenge, but go overboard it is no longer fun and players leave with their wallets.

There have been several areas that had to be addressed over the years that ruined retention. Monthly content and CR differential comes to mind.

I do agree, that challenging content should exist, but unfortunately, we can't agree on what is considered challenging. I loved AnB, I know the elite crowd hated it, since it required dealing with puzzles. I loved lab for the same reason, while everyone wanted throne.

At the end of the day, the devs are doing what sells. If face melting elite content sold, they'd have it in the game. As much to most of the players in this thread would love.

Don't get me wrong, I may not think Elite content should exist, but it is here and the devs need to address it. Especially in EEG.

lets say it like this Elite raids are easy for me as a Tank and its no secret that tanking difficulty went down extremly also healer and trollers which explains why we can solo support roll these things with previous episode stats/gear cause they are that easy for us.

surviving as a DPS is harder then as a Tank alot of the times and thats not the right design imo,While dcuo in its first few years had high tanking difficulty its now the opposite and on top of that its very dps centric,damage checks little effort needed from support rolls. And we as tanks and healer are crazy strong,SM showed this adwell.

So desiging it more towards 2 tanks in elite raids while increasing tanking difficulty would already make me satisfied.

I'm no Elitist hardcore player but Elite raids shouldn't be easily completed by pug groups. If Elite being only finished by pre-made groups are a problem to you, then by all means die on that hill. I don't believe Elite should be accessible to everyone, including myself.

Regarding OC driving players away mepps made a statement about this exact topic once i asked him.
And he said,It had all time records that it still holds to this day and the numbers came back up.

so OC was not a failure and it won the episode bracket list proofing that high difficulty raids are wanted. I have a screenshot of it. If somebody wants i can send it in the DMs and you can post it here because im not sure how i can post it publicly it wont let me.

Oh, yes, it did. Yes it did. I lived through it. I saw players leave AFTER it launched. Players came back during that time to see the new tier. I think LL HoF and HT caused players to fall off. T4 being extremely long. Players were itching for new. They were saying all the new content was too easy because the best gear was those CHITs you got at the end of HoF raids which was only 1IL higher than the 4 vendor styles from BFE. Also, OC had a great story. The whole Nexus and what not was great, BUT it definitely showed it's retention over time.

They had to adjust the difficulty, TWICE, plus they added even harder mechanics because players were exploiting. Then they gave us SoT as sort of an apology. Stating that it should have come out first. Who know, if SoT came first, it might have been different, but the way they were handling best gear and the like, they were gating players to be less than players who raided, which according to Spytle, was a low number of completion.

In the end, OC had a big spike in return, but not retention.

I did read that response Mepps gave though. It was interesting to say the least. I was at SOE live when they did the OC difficulty announcement. Definitely was a different response.

BTW, you want to know the DLC that had the devs sweating? Hand of Fate. It launched REALLY buggy and they had to fix a lot of problems right away.

Totally agree with you, Elite should only be there for those who seek a more difficult challenge.

Who subscribes? Who buys all the stuff to upgrade their artifacts? Realistically, who spends the most money on this game? The casual player or the hardcore elitist? The real answer is there.

100% hence why I said it was one of the reasons why player retention is really bad. Unfortunately I think that those systems just ended up hurting endgame more than anything.



The problem is that devs have always had a problem with adjusting everything and finding a good median, it's either too hard or too easy. I understand the difficulty in balancing but at this point you can't be jumping from one end of the spectrum to the other constantly. The lack of stability, efficiency and general balancing is are real issues.

Indeed it is a business decision and I understand it. But like I said in my earlier response, who's really funding this game? The 1% or the 99%.

Asking for evidence of your claim somehow indicates im out of arguments? How crap….. when did that happen? Asking for evidence is basic…. You make a claim, i need the evidence otherwise you are the one who has no argument. Specifically because not providing any is proof that your likely wrong.
An anecdotal quip from 1 instance from 1 DLC is hardly proof of your claim that all elite is too easy.
Also, i dont see any reason elite shouldnt be able to be 4 man’d with last episodes stats. Theres no mechanics to prevent this im aware of so its been designed as such.
Good try tho.